making the most out of kin combats

Hi.
Before folks tell me this should be posted in the inventions forum, or some other place - for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to post there.

I have a street justice/electric armor brute.

The sounds of some of these attacks certainly make me feel like I'm whiffing more often than not. Sometimes, I'll get a sweeping cross in and hear a nice crunch!
I have used the sentinal tool to upload my build into mids'.


Because I tend to set my difficulty at +4/8, accuracy is important to me.
I have the kismet accuracy unique. My understanding is that this works the same at level 10 as it does at level 50. (the IO in question is a level 10)
So, I'm looking at the kin combat set in mids. I thought I understood enhancement diversification. With SOs, it's a fairly simple concept. But, with IO sets, it seems far more complicated than it ought to be.(for me to understand it)

Accuracy 22.94%
Damage 85.45%
Endurance 41.29%
Recharge 41.29%

Those are the values that mids' shows me based on my toon being level 50 (although at the moment my character is level 46)

I have a slew of enhancement boosters to use. What I'd like to do, is add a 5th slot and somehow get all attributes to be boosted as much as I can without wasting any. (based on my character being level 50.)

Currently, I have two IO bonuses that increase my global accuracy by 9%.
With the kismet giving 6% ToHit and two sets of 9%(from the 4 lotgs I have in combat jump and weave), is mids' taking those bonuses into account?

Paragon Wiki has a lot of general information on the topic, but I can't seem to get my head around the math. Mids', though quite handy, seems to have a steep learning curve for me.

When I add an enhancement booster or two, sometimes the numbers turn yellow or red - which tell me that I'm boosting it too high.

Green seems to be the lowest threshold within some low percentage of acceptable waste.

Is there a way to get all attributes green? Or very close to it?

Why on earth didn't they make the set so that all attributes for a given IO set would already boost right up to the point before ED takes effect?

Thanks.

First of all, it's very common for people to mix and match different IOs from different sets to get their values higher. You don't have to use all of the same set for a power. It's so common there's a name for it: "Frankenslotting."

Specific to your question, there's a HamiO that gives acc/dam. I often use that as a 5th slot to 4 Kin Combats. As I recall, you have to be 50 to use a HamiO.

If you want to boost all 4 attributes in 1 IO, there's a Mako's bite IO that boosts all 4.

First of all -- someone can correct me -- but the attributes you're seeing don't include any global bonuses.

Second of all -- you didn't say if you're 4-slotting or 5-slotting Kinetic Combat, but the important smashing/lethal defense bonus is available for 4 slots so people usually skip the proc... that allows you to frankenslot a different IO for more accuracy/recharge/whatever. "Frankenslot" means to combine different types of IOs, like say a Kinetic Combat and maybe a Mako's Bite and a Crushing Impact -- because you don't care about set bonuses but want to maximize the attributes for that power. With Frankenslotting you can probably get all attributes to green, but you won't get any set bonuses. So a set of 4 Kinetic Combats plus an accuracy/recharge IO from another set is very nice, or two pieces of pounding slugfest is very nice for the 8% regen bonus.

Third -- it's not necessarily bad to boost your damage into the red if you're a damage-dealing AT. ^_^ But if you still have 22.94% accuracy, then yeah, that's not so good.

Don't forget to consider Hamidon Origin Enhancements at level 50, as an extra IO to help round out your numbers.

There's a Bonesnap that is accuracy/rechage, and one of the Hectacombs is accuracy/recharge. I think those are the only melee pieces that boost those two attributes, off the top of my head. Several do accuracy/endurance/recharge: Gladiator's Strike, Mako's, Focused Smite.

I like using 4 Kinetic Combat and adding the quad from Mako's Bite set to round things out. If you have boosters... +5ing everything helps too

Thanks for your fast responses!

I was aware I could slot out of the set. My build is a little flexible, but I need more slots, lol. I only have room to 5 slot most of my melee attacks. I saved a couple of slots by breaking the brute ATO set in half - and once I'm able to, I'll slap some catalysts on them.

But, try as I might, I can't seem to get all 4 attributes in the green. (and still keep the 4 kin combats for the nice def bonus. )

When I add the hecatomb acc/rec I get closer, but even boosted my endurance isn't in the green.

That's certainly acceptable - lol, what choice do I have? - but I can only use one hecatomb acc/rec.

I guess I'll just have to settle for the mako's acc/end/rech to still keep the bonus. Darn shame I can't use more than one set of ATOs - those things are great!

I'd agree with the others on the values of Frankenslotting that 5th slot, and/or
considering Acc/Dmg HO to put in there.

The real issue with that slotting is the 23% Acc, which is subpar and needs to
be addressed to make the attack viable.

You have a number of options to consider to do that.

The Erdx and Rch in there are fine - you have more than a +3 SO's worth of
improvement in each of those categories, and for an attack that is very good.

As for Acc/Dmg, my own personal guidelines are 60%/90% Acc/Dmg in any attack.

At those levels, you're softcapped for accuracy against most PvE mobs, and
you're into ED degradation in damage (ie. diminishing returns to adding any more).

So, in your case, any X/Dmg double IO will boost the Dmg value up enough
to be good, but your 23% Acc isn't even close (that is one of the knocks on the
Kin Combat set - low acc).

Typically, if you have a bunch of global accuracy, you can get away with 40-45%
and do "well enough" in PvE, but you'll be less than 95% to hit some things.

You can also consider the idea of a Nerve Incarnate power for your Alpha slot,
which would be the equivalent of an Acc SO in every power that can use one.

And finally, and probably simplest, and cheapest, is to drop an L50 Acc IO in there,
as the 85% Dmg you already have isn't too bad, relatively speaking.


Regards,
4

For a regular attack, endurance reduction in the 30-40% range is good enough for me. It's only on the few high endurance sucking dubuff or damage toggles that need way more endurance reduction.

As an added note, and somewhat of a correction, unless something has changed, you can slot the HamiOs at lvl 47.

I usually slot the four Kinetic Combats and a level 50 Crushing Impact: Acc/Dam/Rech. Then I typically have several sets that provide accuracy bonuses, such as LotG, Positron's Blast, Thunderstrike, etc., to give another 40-60% acc bonus. I monitor Last Hit Chance to see when my acc is debuffed (or the targets have high defense), so I can tell if my misses are just random chance or something else is wrong.

Your original post mentioned using Boosters. The Kin Combat set, capped at 35 and afflicted with Accuracy Cancer certainly cries out for that. The following numbers exclude any Global or Incarnate bonuses.

Assuming a 4 slot with no Knockdown proc you get the following with all 4 Kin Combat max boosted to +5.
Acc - 28.67%
Damage - 96.34 %
Endurance - 51.61%
Recharge - 51.61%

In this scenario you are only really looking for Accuracy and perhaps Endurance and Recharge, depending on the Attack's End Cost and frequency in your chain.

Your 5th slot options might include -

A single Lvl 50 Accy IO as already mentioned. Even with no boosters that gives 70.96% Acc. Boosted you reach 80.5%, the highest Acc in this list, but still providing a final Acc total of only 160.8% (see below.)

Dual Aspect -
A level 25 Bonesnap Accuracy/Recharge +5 would increase Acc to 53.6% and Recharge to 75.95%.
Brute or Tank - Any Lvl 50 Accuracy/Recharge Taunt Set IO+5 Acc-61.8 Rchg-83.26
A Hecatomb Acc/Rchg +5 is possible, one time, but really a bad idea. I would say that it should be reserved for use with the full set. It would boost Acc to 70.07% and Rchg to 90.11%.

Triples -
Focused Smite Lvl 40 Acc/End/Rchg +5 Acc-52.8 End-75.16 Rchg-75.16
Mako's Bite Acc/End/Rchg at Lvl 50 with no boosters gives just under the numbers of the max boosted Lvl 40. If given the +5 treatment too, it give Acc-55.17 End-77.3 Rchg-77.3

Quads-
Your already have Red Level ED Damage if you +5 the set, so a Quad would just be wasteful. Quads are generraly inefficient to use Boosters on anyway, imo.

Be sure to look at the secondary effects boosting Sets of whatever attack you are boosting. A stun set or knockback set may be a better choice for Accy combined with a effect booster. It appears all Brute attacks have access to the Level 50 taunt sets and the level 50 Accuracy/Recharge enhancement there is a much better choice than the Bonesnap.

Finally to move away from a shotgun boosted Kin Combat to a budget approach, I would probably do the following. I would boost the Kin Com Acc/Dam only. After that, in every case Boosting the Lvl 50 IO in the 5th slot will always be MUCH better than boosting any of the other Level 35's.

+5 the Accuracy/Damage only, yeilding Acc-28.67 Dam-90.03 End-41.29 Rchg-41.29 for the set IO's.

Then-
A single Acc IO with no boost would still be at Acc-70.96%, +5 80.5% as above.

Any level 50 Acc/Dam Double will give good results. 61.8% Acc if +5, 55.17% if unboosted.

If it was me, I am a recharge lover, so I would go a Acc/Dam/Rchg triple. Prefferably +5. Acc-55.17 and a total Acc of 140.7 (see below)

Your Global Accuracy boost, at only 18% from two 9% LotG sets, is low for an IO build intended to play with +4 opponents. I like to see a final total Accy of 170% or better, as shown in the Power info box at the lower left in MIDS. Right click the power to lock the window, click the unlock in the window to look at other powers, of just right click a different power to change the locked power.

The power itself shows only the enhancement portion of your total Acc when you hover over it. Any global boosts, and the base 75% Acc (most Attacks have a 75% base Acc, your Crushing Uppercut only has a bonus of base 90,) are summed in the Power Info box.

Duplicating your listed sets plus the Kismet shows only a 140.3% Final Acc with a +5 to the Kin Com Acc/Dam and an unboosted lvl 50 Double Acc/Dam Crushing Impact in the 5th slot. Even boosting the Crushing to +5 only gets to 145.6% total.

Consider putting an Obliteration or Scirroc's in Lightning Field for another 9%. Adjusted Targeting in Combat readiness could also give 9%. Positron's in Spinning strike could also give a 9%. Do not exceed Five 9% boosts total from all sources, as the 'Rule of 5' prevents more than 5 boosts with the same name from working. A 9% Boost #6 would be wasted. If you can fit in a Crushing Impact set that would give a +7% Boost. ExplorE Mids for other set options. Accuracy boosts generally happen at the 4th or 5th slot in a set that grants one. You probably want about 40+% global Accuracy to play with +4. This helps keep you hitting even when De-Buffed.

If you get your Global up to 40-45% you can probably get by with just a +5 boost to the 5th slot level 50 Acc/Dam or Acc/Dam/?? triple. That should get you about 50% or better Acc in the power, and to at least 150% total, though as I said I prefer 170+.

A last thought. The Kismet +6 is a 120 sec class proc, and only works when in a 'always on' toggle power. Lock an attack power, and you can click the green light on the power bar that has the Kismet to toggle it on and off, and see the Kismet's effect on total Accy. MIDS counts it as about 12% Accuracy, as the simplified view is that +To Hit counts about twice as much as the same amout of Accuracy. I was pretty embarrassed to learn this the hard way when I first started using it, as I thought it was a Global, like the LotG 7.5%. I had to spend a respec to move it. Hopefully you got it right the first time, most do, but thought I would mention it.

Someone mentioned Alpha slots. Since you can only post here, as a free or Premium player, you won't have access to any Incarnate helpers, such as Alpha. A +5 Acc/Dam IO and a Hami-O Nucleous are essentially identical. 33.125 vs 33.3%.

Jak