Elec/SD -- Rolled a Brute. Should I have rolled a Scrapper?
By
BrokenPrey,
Posted on: 2012-03-18 03:26 in Scrappers
yeah.
Against all odds+better base damage=win
the caped damage bonus for pseudo-pets (Lightning rod and shield charge) will hinder you more on a brute than on a scrapper.
English isn't my birth language, so don't blame me if I do some mistakes. thank you !
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Ouch |
Originally Posted by slaad
yeah.
Against all odds+better base damage=win the caped damage bonus for pseudo-pets (Lightning rod and shield charge) will hinder you more on a brute than on a scrapper. |
So, you think I should start all-over with a scrapper?
well, it depends. if you are planning to play mostly in teams/leagues, the scrapper is going to be a bit better, yes.
the brute version is going to be better for soloing.
it will also depends on the time you spent on your brute !
English isn't my birth language, so don't blame me if I do some mistakes. thank you !
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Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Hi Everyone!
Up till now, I have been playing scrappers only. This weekend, x2 XP weekend, I decided to make 2 brutes. I went with a fire/fire, got her up to 31, and then went with a elec/sd brute and took her to 34. Now, I still have Sunday left for x2 XP, but now I am hearing that the elec/sd scrapper does more damage than the brute version. So, did I make a mistake?  Should I re-roll my character as a elec/sd scrapper? I know this is a Scrapper forum, but try to be objective.I want to be survivable sure, but I also want to come up on a large mob and just knock them all over with Lightning Rod. Also, if you have any great builds for the elec/sd scrapper or brute, I am very interested since they seem to be scarce when I search for them. Thank you in advance... |
The difference is this.
Both shield charge and lightning rod do their damage based not on YOUR stats, but on a 'pseudo-pet' that the power summons. The reason this matters is, all pets are capped at 400 percent of base damage.
Scrappers have a damage modifier of 1.125, while brutes have a damage modifier of 0.75. This is offset by the fact that scrappers cap at 500 percent, while brutes cap at 775 percent.
HOWEVER. The AT scalar mods also apply to the pseudo-pets.
So, in buff-intensive situations, when you hit the 400 percent pet cap, the scrapper shield charge and lightning rod does 100*1.125*4 = 450 damage (picking a number outta the air.)
In the same situation, the brute does 100*0.75*4=300 damage.
Yes, the scrapper does a more intense alpha strike, IF you hit the pet cap. The brute is considerably more durable.
For this combo (a heavy pulse damage build), even though the alpha strike is not terribly frequent, the difference heavily favors the scrapper.
Brutes get Gloom, which is sort of a consolation prize
I'd love for someone to build this same exact toon twice as a brute and scrapper and really see if they can even notice the difference. I personally haven't so I can't really say, but something tells me you wouldn't.
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Great explanation! Thank you!! So, it seems, if I understand you correctly, under heavily buffed scenarios (like when I am on a team), the damage output of the scrapper will do better with the single Lightning Rod strike than the brute.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
The difference is this.
Both shield charge and lightning rod do their damage based not on YOUR stats, but on a 'pseudo-pet' that the power summons. The reason this matters is, all pets are capped at 400 percent of base damage. Scrappers have a damage modifier of 1.125, while brutes have a damage modifier of 0.75. This is offset by the fact that scrappers cap at 500 percent, while brutes cap at 775 percent. HOWEVER. The AT scalar mods also apply to the pseudo-pets. So, in buff-intensive situations, when you hit the 400 percent pet cap, the scrapper shield charge and lightning rod does 100*1.125*4 = 450 damage (picking a number outta the air.) In the same situation, the brute does 100*0.75*4=300 damage. Yes, the scrapper does a more intense alpha strike, IF you hit the pet cap. The brute is considerably more durable. For this combo (a heavy pulse damage build), even though the alpha strike is not terribly frequent, the difference heavily favors the scrapper. |
I think I will take advantage of this Sunday's remaining 2x XP and roll a scrapper just to see what it is like. I also like the criticals of a scrapper, and seem to find it hard to do similar damage with the Fury aspect of a brute. But then, I haven't played the brute very much yet outside of power-leveling her with DFB. But having these two characters side-by-side so to speak, I might be able to get a feel for which does more damage routinely, not just during the most powerful strike (is that what an alpha strike is called?). Afterall, I won't be using Lightning Rod over and over again. There are other powers.
Do I have it right?
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Double xp weekend. No better time to do so.
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Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Ouch
So, you think I should start all-over with a scrapper? |
Under construction
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That is true but Gloom with Elec, you still don't have good ST damage.|
Originally Posted by Pasiphae
Brutes get Gloom, which is sort of a consolation prize
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Originally Posted by SmegHead
I'd love for someone to build this same exact toon twice as a brute and scrapper and really see if they can even notice the difference. I personally haven't so I can't really say, but something tells me you wouldn't.
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Interesting. So, I roleld a new character, an Elec/SD Scrapper and dove into a bunch of DFBs. And having just played the Brute version, I can say that it seemed like the Scrapper does more dammage, 100% UNslotted in DFB. I think that is the best apples to apples comparison since there are no differences from IO sets, etc. Still this is a purely subjective conclusion because I didn't take specific notes. And seeing "CRITICAL" popup with the scrapper is always gratifying. Plys, I could never get the fury going (Brutes befuddle me a bit).|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
That is true but Gloom with Elec, you still don't have good ST damage.
I have a Elec/SD Brute and A Scrapper both at 50. Both have almost the same build, the Brute as Gloom. I don't play my Brute much anymore because the Scrapper is better. LR and SC and AAO is a lot better on a Scrapper, at least I can see the difference when I play. |
So, I guess I am happier with the Scrapper on a subjective, enjoyment level. Whether it is more survivable or does more damage in reality, I can't say yet. But it "feels" as though it does to me.
Does that make sense?
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I've had a SS/SD Brute and I've had a Fire/Shield Scrapper. It's not even funny how much better SD works on a scrapper, and yes it is very noticeable. |
Originally Posted by SmegHead
I'd love for someone to build this same exact toon twice as a brute and scrapper and really see if they can even notice the difference. I personally haven't so I can't really say, but something tells me you wouldn't.
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Your first indication is when your foot stomp starts dealing more burst damage than shield charge does, cause fury, rage, and enhancement value will cap out Shield Charge's 300% damage buff, while all your other AoEs wouldn't cap out until 675% dmg buff.
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DFB really isn't a good place to compare the ATs. At that level you aren't getting AAO and Shield Charge, which is what makes the set so much better on scrappers. Also at that level the brute should actually be out performing the scrapper because of fury.
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Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Interesting. So, I roleld a new character, an Elec/SD Scrapper and dove into a bunch of DFBs. And having just played the Brute version, I can say that it seemed like the Scrapper does more dammage, 100% UNslotted in DFB. I think that is the best apples to apples comparison since there are no differences from IO sets, etc. Still this is a purely subjective conclusion because I didn't take specific notes. And seeing "CRITICAL" popup with the scrapper is always gratifying. Plys, I could never get the fury going (Brutes befuddle me a bit).
So, I guess I am happier with the Scrapper on a subjective, enjoyment level. Whether it is more survivable or does more damage in reality, I can't say yet. But it "feels" as though it does to me. Does that make sense? |
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I am not sure it will be the same at high levels but I don't think Elec fits with fury all that well. Fury benefits from lots of attacks to build it up, but Elec likes to frontload its damage which doesn't give enough time to build up good fury.|
Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Plys, I could never get the fury going (Brutes befuddle me a bit).
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Once you get going it will be less noticable because the fury will carry from mob to mob, but I think building fury is harder on Elec than most other sets. Also with the KD from LR and TS you won't be getting attacked as much as other brutes initially, so no building fury that way.
Another thing in the scrappers favor.
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Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Plus, I could never get the fury going (Brutes befuddle me a bit).
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It's like running a marathon, you want to find that exact level of "falling" forward without falling on your face or stopping to where you can continue on for as long as possible.
If you find yourself pausing between mobs due to either your playstyle, low HP, or a slow team then brutes probably aren't the best fit.
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Hi Everyone!
Should I re-roll my character as a elec/sd scrapper? I know this is a Scrapper forum, but try to be objective.
Up till now, I have been playing scrappers only. This weekend, x2 XP weekend, I decided to make 2 brutes. I went with a fire/fire, got her up to 31, and then went with a elec/sd brute and took her to 34. Now, I still have Sunday left for x2 XP, but now I am hearing that the elec/sd scrapper does more damage than the brute version.
So, did I make a mistake?
I want to be survivable sure, but I also want to come up on a large mob and just knock them all over with Lightning Rod.
Also, if you have any great builds for the elec/sd scrapper or brute, I am very interested since they seem to be scarce when I search for them.
Thank you in advance...