Just my take on this. I saw the entire start "My character is a terrorist..." as a smokescreen (Successful with me for a couple hours until I thought about it) that the OP was talking about a FISH headed guy named ADMIRAL AKBAR. The terrorist thing is just to justify the Akbar as saying its not really a complete Star Wars trademark ripoff. Once I read it carefully I was pretty much done. Fish headed guy named Akbar. To everyone who is posting about terrorists.... uh, you took the bait?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Just my take on this. I saw the entire start "My character is a terrorist..." as a smokescreen (Successful with me for a couple hours until I thought about it) that the OP was talking about a FISH headed guy named ADMIRAL AKBAR. The terrorist thing is just to justify the Akbar as saying its not really a complete Star Wars trademark ripoff. Once I read it carefully I was pretty much done. Fish headed guy named Akbar. To everyone who is posting about terrorists.... uh, you took the bait?
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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
His actual (sic) would've looked like a navy captain, to give the impression that he is actually an admiral.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Cause this led me to believe he was headed in a fishy direction.
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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Though if I just need a name change, I suppose I could go with it. It'll be hard to match the genius of the exploding fish military captain.
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Something about the notion that racial slurs related to Star Wars are among the most actionable CoH offenses is amusing to me. I'm picturing a list being created in a committee, and a group of people deciding that Star Wars references are bad, racial slurs are bad, but racial slurs related to Star Wars references are definitely in the top three, just above Rickrolled /jranger quote pyramids and just below North Korean Nazi Dinosaurs.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And I'm saying that a single complaint will be acted on. Especially a racial slur combined with the Star Wars reference.
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I didn't say that they were among the most actionable. However my thought process is that if the racial slur was actionable and the Star Wars infringement was actionable, then the character in question had two metaphorical guns to its head. Either one would trigger the action, but it would be a moot point as to which did the character in.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Something about the notion that racial slurs related to Star Wars are among the most actionable CoH offenses is amusing to me.
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Not true!|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I didn't say that they were among the most actionable. However my thought process is that if the racial slur was actionable and the Star Wars infringement was actionable, then the character in question had two metaphorical guns to its head. Either one would trigger the action, but it would be a moot point as to which did the character in.
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Most everyone would be highly concerned over who shot first!!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I don't give a darn... He wanted 1st's position. He was tired of being the shortstop.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Not true!
Most everyone would be highly concerned over who shot first!! |
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I think I can make this, its the reptileman thing, with a black trechcoat, I just gotta figure a way to get a military cap on it and a north korean flag emblem... I give you Hitler Jong-Il Saur!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
North Korean Nazi Dinosaurs.
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sigh, i got a bad feeling this will be my 22nd deleted post/thread...
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The very existence of a second shooter could be a subject of much debate.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Most everyone would be highly concerned over who shot first!!
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Where is the grassy knoll?
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Where is the grassy knoll?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Third Base!!|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Where is the grassy knoll?
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Originally Posted by Aneko
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Here's a shot of him during the subway series!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Bob was easily the most lethal sniper-scout in his unit, but he had difficulty adapting to the requirements of urban combat.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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If you are that certain that your fun will outweigh other people's pain and anger, and that your fun (short-lived as it will be), KNOWING that it is offensive and it will be acted upon is your over-riding concern, then by all means. Grief us. Thank you for making it clear that your fun is the only important issue here. Why even ask except to inflame people?
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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
The rule of thumb isn't that simple. There is an equation to it; how much you will enjoy something is weighed against the potential consequences of that act as follows.
F(P1) - C(P2) = A Where F is the potential fun you'll have, P1 is the probability of that fun happening, C is the consequences from that action, and P2 is the probability that you'll have to endure those consequences. If A > 0, the act occurs, and if A < 0 or A = 0, the act does not occur. This is a not-so-basic mechanism for weighing deviant behavior in individuals. Unfortunately I read the equation a long time ago, so I have a strong feeling I have butchered it from the thesis I originally read it in. Though if I just need a name change, I suppose I could go with it. It'll be hard to match the genius of the exploding fish military captain. |
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Call it a curse of communication awareness, but when someone says something condescending or makes negative implications I pick it up immediately. Why it is so apparent is anyone's guess, but my assumption is that I learned to detect hostility as a survival instinct in dealing with a particular disability I have. The big problem wasn't that rudeness was present. It is expected on some level, being the internet and all. For the first part of the thread, it was just ignored. The big problem is when it is denied. One of the things I didn't quote was Forbin's second post in the disrespect argument since I was debating it, but it is by far the worst offender. It is a derogatory statement about my sanity, about my integrity, and about my intelligence, topped off with an air of supremacy that necessitates my inferiority with direct exclusion from the normal forum-goers in an attempt to inform others of my inferiority. Each of those categories has layers of overt implications upon them, and it is this that truly angered me. By that time, the thread had derailed and the subject of my whole was now on the tracks. This is quite a bit more serious than just going off the handle when someone makes a condescending implication, as a defense is warranted and justified when a person is the very subject at hand. I would love play the game where people's word's have no consequences to them and you can ignore people without repercussion, but this just isn't true.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I find it odd that you've become so defensive over some people saying vaguely disrespectful things to you on a message board, yet have even entertained the idea that it's OK to drag modern mass murder into a game of escapist fantasy, as long as you have enough fun with it, and anybody who gets upset at you dredging up memories of their murdered relative, or vaguely implying their race/religion makes them a terrorist, is just too easily offended.
By the way, you might try totally avoiding the issue by making your character part of a fictional terrorist group, rather than a real one? Crusader Resistance, maybe. |
The whole "your being defensive" and "nitpicking" argument is completely dodging the issue. Imposing some character flaw does not change the validity of my arguments.
I am assuming that by now everyone knows that Achmed the Dead Terrorist exists and is popular. This is an example of comedy in popular culture; taking issues relevant to the world and re-constructing them in a way as to provide comical perspective on them. This includes issues that are controversial, since the topics are often thought about and thus providing a constant topic for new insight and material. This is not a recent phenomena; comedy has been about relevant issues for as long as comedy has been around. It serves many functions, from making statements about the world (such as in political satire) to just being entertaining (such as physical comedy). Since comedy of this nature exists and is well received enough to be popular on a global scale, someone who is taking offense to that idea when it is not making some profound statement is being too easily offended. The mere mention of topical issues in a comedic state offending someone isn't about me and what I am doing at all: It is about that someone, and whether or not they are O.K. with comedy in general.
The whole idea that I plan to do this explicitly at other people's expense is absurd. One of the reasons why I wanted to go with it, stated in my second post of this thread (4th numerically) was that other people would enjoy the joke toon, and likewise I would enjoy their enjoyment. Happiness self-reinforces, and the joke is only as good as how much other people enjoy it. It is so much easier to offend people through other means that aren't readily interpreted and understood by the majority as nothing more than an attempt at comedy. So if the purpose is to offend, then it is assuming this whole ordeal is needlessly complicated and that necessitates the a priori assumption that I am a liar and/or a troll with no grounds to base it on from my demeanor in the first post of this topic. This applies to topical comedy as well; an assumption that a comedian is trolling as an attempt to entertain the very population that they are trolling is a ludacris set of mental gymnastics that instantly says "don't bother responding to this individual, since they lack the ability to listen".
You can pick apart their feelings on the matter to show that they are being too sensitive (mass murder and suicide bombing are already present in the game), but that doesn't go anywhere since feelings are self evident and do not need logical justification to be held. To that point, changing the name to something that isn't topical humor robs impact of the joke, as well as the dynamic regarding another toon I had made.
Now, as far as the rule of thumb goes, I can say that it does apply to this situation while the flaws in the rule of thumb prevent it from resolving the dilemma. Its ineffectiveness was my original intention, after all. Not sure exactly where applicability substituted helpfulness in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Ideon
But I mean what I said.
It's quite obvious that you're going to disregard what we say and create your possibly offensive character anyway. I'm just saying if it does get generic'd, don't complain about it since you knew what you were getting into when you go make it. |
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I think this is a moot point. Somebody can find something offensive on almost any character. There are all types of people playing this game. The vampire wanna-be play right along side the bible-thumpers. Some people will get offended by a political stance, sexual preference, etc.
ANY terrorist concept can raise problems. Name issues aside, EVEN though you are presumably playing a villain and terrorists in this COH universe would be considered villains, you don't know if or which other player might have lost a friend or relative to a terrorist action. You push those buttons just right, and yes, they will push back and report you. Concept and universe will be ignored, and they will see someone who is GLORIFYING the terrorist. I can imagine a whole host of villain concepts that are valid, but certain real life crime themes would STILL be a red flag if attempted to be played in game.
This concept is right there on that razor edge. I would expect it to last up and until you ran in to that one player out there that would take offense. That could come in your first hour of play, or your 500th. WHY take the chance?
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Boy the OP sure is spending a lot of time and energy trying to defend and justify a character concept he acknowledged violates the rules of the game and abandoned.
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Maybe you shouldn't impugn his sanity, integrity and intelligence in posts only he can see.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Boy the OP sure is spending a lot of time and energy trying to defend and justify a character concept he acknowledged violates the rules of the game and abandoned.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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I think you are being overly sensitive and you are seeing things that aren't present.
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Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Call it a curse of communication awareness, but when someone says something condescending or makes negative implications I pick it up immediately.
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You're misreading what we're saying about the rule of thumb. Well, you're misreading what I'm saying about it, anyway; I can't speak authoritatively for others, but I'm getting the same feeling from them. It isn't "this is the rule, and you're dumb/dishonest for not figuring that out yourself." It's just "That won't be OK, and this handy rule explains why." Then you went off on a tangent about how the rule of thumb is inapplicable, or incomplete, or useless, which was never the point.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Now, as far as the rule of thumb goes, I can say that it does apply to this situation while the flaws in the rule of thumb prevent it from resolving the dilemma. Its ineffectiveness was my original intention, after all. Not sure exactly where applicability substituted helpfulness in this thread.
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You don't have to be planning to do it explicitly at the expense of others for it to be so. Offensive things are against the rules for a reason.
If you don't see how portraying modern real world mass murderers (plus a touch of implied racism/faith-ism) as comedy is different than portraying completely fictional bad guys, I don't know what to say, except to again point out that maybe somebody else in the world has "the curse of communication awareness" and would be quite upset to see such a character, even if you have never explicitly intended that. If you can accept losing the pun, making the character a Resistance Crusader would otherwise let you accomplish the same thing, without risk of dragging real-world problems into people's entertainment.
My first gut reaction was less about the nationality and implication of terrorism and even the Admiral Ackbar pun. It was over the use of the phrase Allahu Akbar (which is a pretty sacred and common saying in Islam). I'm not so sure people of that faith would appreciate the phrase used in that type of joke. Then again, I'm not of that faith nor am I of that region, so I can't speak for them. But I can see that somewhere in there is probably the answer to your original question.
/shrug
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Honestly, I think a lot will depend on how you carry yourself while playing that toon. You start trash-talking America (or the West in general) or the Christian faith, then yeah, someone will be filing a petition.
But the name itself isn't even going to raise a ripple. It's just as meaningless as every other name out there. It's your "role play" that may be an issue.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase