A simple suggestion for knockback woes
By
Atilla_The_Pun,
Posted on: 2012-02-24 23:23 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Absolutely, positively NOT. Any more than having the team leaders have a toggle that, say, turns all Fire damage powers into Psi, or all Masterminds into Controllers. Someone wants that amount of control over my characters, they can not only pay my sub, but pay me for my time playing those characters. |
Originally Posted by chaetophile
I suggest that team leaders have an option added to their row of mission buttons. The option would be Knockdown. If selected, all chance-for-knockback powers in the team/mission become chance-for-knockdown instead.
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And I have no idea what your real issue with getting invited on a PB is. Mine don't have issues getting teams.
Last but not least, bit of a necro...
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And this is a horrible idea for so many reasons. You are a TEAM leader not a dictator. You lead the team you build...or choose different players. Altering the mechanics of someone's play style is not LEADING a team.
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Originally Posted by chaetophile
I suggest that team leaders have an option added to their row of mission buttons. The option would be Knockdown. If selected, all chance-for-knockback powers in the team/mission become chance-for-knockdown instead.
This way, melee AND/OR knockback toons can petition the leader to shut off the excessive knockback if they are being annoyed/being annoying, and nobody need be kicked. Players that are good at using knockback get to use it, and players that are not good at using knockback have an incentive to get better. I don't know if this would be technically feasable, but I suspect it would be sweet. I've played all sorts of toons for years, but never an energy blaster and never a storm summoner. They might be a blast to solo, but I wouldn't inflict them on any team. I'm seriously considering dropping my Peacebringers. Running them without the powers that do knockback would be about as effective as building a Mastermind without any pets, and when you add in the Voids and Quanta... I have a hard time getting them invited. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Amen.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
And this is a horrible idea for so many reasons. You are a TEAM leader not a dictator. You lead the team you build...or choose different players. Altering the mechanics of someone's play style is not LEADING a team.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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How is it materially different from just kicking someone with KB? Or setting the difficulty? Or removing temp powers in a TF?
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
And this is a horrible idea for so many reasons. You are a TEAM leader not a dictator. You lead the team you build...or choose different players. Altering the mechanics of someone's play style is not LEADING a team.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It's a control freak issue. "Other" people should not have "this" type of control over how "other" people are allowed to play the game. This is overreaching.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
How is it materially different from just kicking someone with KB? Or setting the difficulty? Or removing temp powers in a TF?
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Bill, Toast and Khasei are right; setting the difficulty or picking the mission or kicking a problem player aren't special perks or rewards of leadership, they're responsibilities that come with it. Someone has to do these jobs, so a player steps up to the plate to make sure they get done.
Literally dictating how other players' powers work isn't just abuse of power, it's a power leaders shouldn't have in the first place. Unless, again, you'd like to give team leaders the ability to toggle on or off my fire tank's damage aura or my stalker's Hide.
It's one thing to tell everyone in a Keyes trial not to fly during the Anti-Matter fight. It's another entirely to have a button you can press to ground the other players yourself.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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But a team leader can toggle off a player from a team. Or select a setting that removes that persons ability to use temp powers. What's the difference?|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
Bill, Toast and Khasei are right; setting the difficulty or picking the mission or kicking a problem player aren't special perks or rewards of leadership, they're responsibilities that come with it. Someone has to do these jobs, so a player steps up to the plate to make sure they get done.
Literally dictating how other players' powers work isn't just abuse of power, it's a power leaders shouldn't have in the first place. Unless, again, you'd like to give team leaders the ability to toggle on or off my fire tank's damage aura or my stalker's Hide. It's one thing to tell everyone in a Keyes trial not to fly during the Anti-Matter fight. It's another entirely to have a button you can press to ground the other players yourself. |
I really don't get this. Let's say this toggle existed. A player would always have the ability to leave a team where the toggle was in place. It's not like anyone would be forced to stay. I think the unspoken argument is that if it were that easy, most team leaders would have this toggle on at all times, making so you effectively can't team if you like KB. If that's your argument, I understand. But then, that says a lot about KB that its ardent defenders believe the playerbase would banish it from the game if they could.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
There are way too many leaps in logic in that post....WAY too many.
The bottom line is nobody else should have the power over how "other" people can use their powers period.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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You keep dodging the question. Team leaders already have this ability as to temp powers. What's the difference?
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
There are way too many leaps in logic in that post....WAY too many.
The bottom line is nobody else should have the power over how "other" people can use their powers period. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
He's not going to get it. Don't bother.
Related suggestions:
- Disable set bonus button
- Disable -kb on immobs button
- Disable stealth button
- Disable incarnate powers in non incarnate content button
- Force team to decline speed buff portion of speed boost
All those should be fine too, going by EG's logic. Nobody should be upset or annoyed by those in the least....
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Because as a team leader I can openly choose WHO I want on my team. When I create a team I look at the toon... and IF (not saying I would/do) IF I did not want someone with KB on my team that is my choice to not invite them....|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
How is it materially different from just kicking someone with KB? Or setting the difficulty? Or removing temp powers in a TF?
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BUT in this instance...let's say I had the KB to KD option as a team leader...It would not be right for me to invite NrgBlastGuy to my team and then tell him: Oh I am disabling your KB so we run better because KB is the evil and you are too stupid to use it.
One is me simply not choosing someone based off of their powers and the other is me actively telling someone..if you team with me you have to deal with me altering the effects your powers have.
Again... Not saying I have EVER declined someone based on their KB...unless of course I was looking for a support toon and they were on a blaster...then I simply chose not to invite them. If I am specifically looking for a defender for buff/debuff purposes....I don't want any blaster regardless of their power choices
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Temp powers are not primary/secondary powers.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
You keep dodging the question. Team leaders already have this ability as to temp powers. What's the difference?
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No one should have the ability to neuter your effectiveness on an entire team based off of your primary/secondary power choices. If as an individual you choose to Null the Gull someones SB speed increase etc.. that is your own individual choice that does not affect that person casting SB.
Making it so one cannot use Ghost Slaying Axe is quite different than disabling a power in someone's primary or secondary.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Nobody is dodging anything. Temp powers are not equal to primary and secondary powers. There is a difference most people get it you don't no biggie since it is not going to happen ever anyway.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
You keep dodging the question. Team leaders already have this ability as to temp powers. What's the difference?
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I'd like to point out some words in my post to which it seems nobody has paid the least attention.
The words are "...have a chance to knockback..."
There are a few powers which have knockback as their primary intent. No problem if they are used well and wisely.
There are a huge number of powers that have knockback as a possible secondary effect. The knockback effect is not reliable. It doesn't serve any more useful purpose than knockdown would. In some cases it doesn't even make sense from a comic-book physics standpoint. These are the powers that I would like to see given an option of knockdown instead of knockback.
I am NOT trying to neuter anybody's effectiveness, and my suggestion would not have that effect. I'm trying to keep tanks, brutes, and scrappers from having THEIR effectiveness neutered by excessive and purposeless knockback. This is a condition that is already in the game.
Memphis Bill's and Doctor Roswell's lists of "related suggestions" make absolutely no sense to me. Why would anybody suggest disabling set bonuses or a stalker's stealth?
-The powers mentioned are not abusable.
-They don't blow mobs away from a melee toon.
-They don't throw minions off of cliffs in Oranbegan kill-all missions.
-They are not annoying and they don't detract from the effectiveness of other players.
Knockback, on the other hand, is, does, does, is, and does, respectively.
One modification to this suggesion:
Have two mutually exclusive toggles - one enables knockback, the other does knockdown. Personally, I'd keep the knockdown one going.
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178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
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And you have the option to NOT play with people who do KB. It's as simple as that. If you don't like the way someone is using KB, don't play with that person.|
Originally Posted by chaetophile
I'd like to point out some words in my post to which it seems nobody has paid the least attention.
The words are "...have a chance to knockback..." There are a few powers which have knockback as their primary intent. No problem if they are used well and wisely. There are a huge number of powers that have knockback as a possible secondary effect. The knockback effect is not reliable. It doesn't serve any more useful purpose than knockdown would. In some cases it doesn't even make sense from a comic-book physics standpoint. These are the powers that I would like to see given an option of knockdown instead of knockback. I am NOT trying to neuter anybody's effectiveness, and my suggestion would not have that effect. I'm trying to keep tanks, brutes, and scrappers from having THEIR effectiveness neutered by excessive and purposeless knockback. This is a condition that is already in the game. Memphis Bill's and Doctor Roswell's lists of "related suggestions" make absolutely no sense to me. Why would anybody suggest disabling set bonuses or a stalker's stealth? -The powers mentioned are not abusable. -They don't blow mobs away from a melee toon. -They don't throw minions off of cliffs in Oranbegan kill-all missions. -They are not annoying and they don't detract from the effectiveness of other players. Knockback, on the other hand, is, does, does, is, and does, respectively. |
That means that as the team leader you send a tell asking them to leave or you kick them.
That means as a player or team member you talk to the team leader, and if they don't agree with you then find another team.
It's not rocket science, and I don't know how to make it any simpler for you.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
"players will have to complete both movies of the double feature in order to get the final reward- a new universal damage IO set. This set has near-universal appeal for players of all level ranges and also includes a special new proc that will convert the knockback of a power to knockdown."
Brilliant. It's more than I had hoped.
Atilla, I'm guessing you are playing on Freedom, Virtue, and/or Justice servers. Any other server, a team is a rare and wonderful thing, not to be lightly abandoned.
This upcoming rare proc is a great solution for players like me, who want a way to cancel their own knockback. It does nothing about the crowds of storm summoners who are trying to use [Gale] as a damage attack.
A recent exchange (of sorts) in a DFB mission with a storm summoner:
Me: Hey, could we lose the [Gale] please? This team is full of melee toons and you are blowing our enemies out of our hands.
(silence and [Gale] [Gale] [Gale] [Gale] [Gale])
Me: Dude. Seriously, Gale is for herding enemies into corners. It's not a damage power. Please stop.
(silence and slightly more judicious use of [Gale])
Me: Okay, ahead here, if you could use Gale to blow the Hydra spawns away from us while we beat on the Heads, THAT would be awesome.
That's what happened. It was awesome.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.