Suggestion: Buffs for Blasters!
I don't really have much problem with most of these suggestions either way. But I think a re-examination of how the Tier 9 Nukes work is sorely needed.
The Incarnate Judgement powers really brought to light just how annoying and archaic the idea of super hard crashes after using Tier 9 Nukes have become. I understand that there needs to be some balancing factors for those high-end powers. But when you line them up them to the Judgement Nukes which have no crashes and quicker recharges then it seems like the Tier 9 Nukes are too overly penalized in comparison.
I don't think they should go as far as to totally remove the crash effects, but I think they need to be scaled back quite a bit - maybe even as far as to reduce their effects by at least 1/2 the current penalty values. In this way the Judgement Nukes will still be better but not by such a gigantic margin.
As it is now I have Blaster Incarnates who never use their tier 9 Nukes because they now have Judgement Nukes which are so much more forgiving by comparison. Something must be done so that tier 9 Nukes are not relegated to being just the grossly inferior alternative to Judgement Nukes.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
As said by Lothic, the nuke abilities are rather poor once acquiring abilities like your Judgement power. They have about the same cool down except one is only slightly less powerful yet doesn't destroy your end and/or HP.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Overall I think its about time to let Blasters have some treats from outside the damage jar. Every other AT has gotten a taste of the damage jar yumminess to some degree or another but Blasters have been woefully denied tastes from the other AT's jars. This is primarily why I only have 1 blaster who I almost never play.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Tier 9 Nukes: For blasters only, simply remove the crash from their Nukes and increase the mag of any mez effect associated with them to mag 4. Let those nukes grant survival through mez that's guaranteed to affect most (not all! and not elite!) bosses.
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I don't think they should go as far as to totally remove the crash effects, but I think they need to be scaled back quite a bit - maybe even as far as to reduce their effects by at least 1/2 the current penalty values. In this way the Judgement Nukes will still be better but not by such a gigantic margin.
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The only thing you'd really need to consider is that nukes are available 12-18 levels earlier than Judgement. For that reason, the crash shouldn't go away completely, but instead scale with level. Start at 41, reduce the -end and -recovery component by 10% per level up. At 50, there's no crash, but at 32-40 the full crash is in effect.
But to be honest, I'm not even fully convinced that any sort of crash at all is necessary.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I would not keep any nukes changes/buffs unique to blasters. One can make the case that the crash is actually more detrimental to defenders and corruptors, as the nukes are less likey to kill, but leave the defender/corruptor just as open, and also disallows them to use team support abilities. This in a way spreads their penalty to the team's performance/longevity.
I would offer instead that blasters receive a higher max target cap on both nukes, cones, and other AoE's. This alongside a revision to nukes for all archetypes. Some suggest heightening the damage to be worthy of the present penalties, others that the penalties should be diminished. I'm in the latter camp, saying that it should cause no endurance crash or recovery debuff, rather a slight additional endurance cost to powers afterward and a minor -rech/-defense/-resistance debuff.
As for the target cap increase, I would specifically match all cone target caps to AoE caps on blasters, and have both be higher, like at 20 rather than 16. While the benefit of the higher cap would be less useful in many circumstances, (though a matching cone/AoE caps on blaster WOULD be more noticeable) it would mean that in circumstances where other archetypes would be overwhelmed, blasters could blow everything away more easily.
OK when I start seeing things like "annoying" listed as a reason to change powers I know what matter is under me and I am running for the hills.
Yeah, I'll let the devs handle this one...
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
For Nukes I think the crash should either be changed to a recovery only debuff (such as on EMP Arrow) or even eliminated entirely.
Regarding balance I agree that Nukes would be pretty powerful with no crash but on the other hand if you compare their damage and recharge scales to those of the crash less nukes they aren't that much better (except for Inferno).
Crashless Nukes:
Full Auto: 2.854 damage / 60s recharge.
Hail of Bullets: 3.2688 damage / 180s recharge
Overcharge: 3.5 damage / 180s recharge
The crashing nukes all have 360s recharge and between 4.25 damage scale (Thunderous Blast) to 7.44 damage scale (Inferno) with most of them having 4.875 damage scale.
So compared to HoB and Overcharge they are getting about a 40% damage increase in exchange for having twice the recharge and a crash. The problem is that endurance costs are supposed to scale with damage and the nukes are effectively paying this extra endurance by having the crash but honestly their damage does not strike me as being good enough to really justify the cost (with the exception of Inferno).
So at a minimum I would say change the crash to a recovery debuff (and maybe increase the base endurance cost a bit) or better yet drop the crash entirely and drop the damage a bit if it's really necessary (i.e. for Inferno).
OK when I start seeing things like "annoying" listed as a reason to change powers I know what matter is under me and I am running for the hills.
Yeah, I'll let the devs handle this one... |
Also I was more than willing to work with my suggestion and meet the Devs half-way on this. Obviously they may feel the current Tier 9 Nuke crashes are completely justified (because they haven't taken the time to fully reconsider the ramifications of the Judgement Nukes) so I'm not going to go as far as to blindly claim "all crashes should be removed" arbitrarily. I simply contend that they could be adjusted downward to not only encourage Incarnates to use their Tier 9 Nukes again but to make things more reasonable even for the non-Incarnate level 32-49 characters. Seems to be a win-win to me.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
The Incarnate Judgement powers really brought to light just how annoying and archaic the idea of super hard crashes after using Tier 9 Nukes have become.
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The benefit of just having to pick the power (and getting it earlier - 32) just doesn't outweigh the ridiculousness of Judgement nukes - which also (can) have a higher target cap.
Honestly, I *like* the idea of having a tier9 that really feels like you're pushing yourself past the norm for your powers - you're "overcharging" yourself for a big result (this goes for the various tanker/scrapper T9s, as well) and thus does have a penalty. But the effects, now, just aren't worth that penalty compared to the freebie Judgement nukes. And you know they aren't going to tone down Judgements at this stage.
(I do have to wonder if they're seeing this power creep and are having to do some redesigning - thus us not seeing any of the last 5 powers yet.)
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Buildup/Aim Ideas: Give them the Inner Light treatment that Peacebringers got
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OR for the 10 seconds they are active have Aim give a small unenhanceable defense buff and Buildup give a small unenhanceable resistance buff. |
Tier 9 Nukes: For blasters only, simply remove the crash from their Nukes |
and increase the mag of any mez effect associated with them to mag 4. Let those nukes grant survival through mez that's guaranteed to affect most (not all! and not elite!) bosses. |
Secondary Effects: Add more soft mez secondary effects to some blaster primary and/or secondary abilities. The Fire Blast set could get a stun added to Blaze (much like radiation's cosmic burst), Devices Taser could have its range significantly increased, Burn from Fire Manipulation could give more than immob protection but also stun and sleep protection as well... nothing says "wake the f--- up!" like standing in fire :P Little ideas like this which don't fundamentall change the basic functions of the powers but let blasters take a little bit from the survivability/mez plate since everyone else seems to be nipping cookies from the damage plate. |
I'm a strong believe that blasters should still have low base survivability, the problem I see is that other ATs can do as much damage as blasters with significantly better base survivability. Basically Blasters trade their survivability for damage, but the damage they get in comparison to other ATs isn't where it should be. Giving them more mezzing capabilities won't fix blasters, they need more damage, if you want a high damage AT with good mezzing a dom is what you want.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
You haven't stated any facts. You've stated your opinions, and given no reasons at all to back them up. If you would like to state facts, please do so.
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I am not here to defend this or that position per se which if you read up thread, my comments about the pulling out and letting the devs handle this signify this clearly.
I don't see annoying and not worth it as driving forces that will have the "devs" say oh we agree that tier 9 powers are annoying and not worth it and therefore they need to be changed. That is what I am saying nothing more nothing less. There is no need for me to state facts beyond that point because that is the only point that "I" was making period.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Nope its NOT that simple mate, but I don't want anyone jumping down my throat for stating the facts. Not worth it and annoying are not reasons that the devs have or should be using to make power changes. It is much more complicated than that and frankly the red letters need to be here to fully explain their position on this and not players.
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Owait.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
See this is where there could be a misunderstanding of what I am saying or not saying so let me try to clear this up right now before it goes any further down this kind of path.
I am not here to defend this or that position per se which if you read up thread, my comments about the pulling out and letting the devs handle this signify this clearly. I don't see annoying and not worth it as driving forces that will have the "devs" say oh we agree that tier 9 powers are annoying and not worth it and therefore they need to be changed. That is what I am saying nothing more nothing less. There is no need for me to state facts beyond that point because that is the only point that "I" was making period. |
"Annoying" and "not worth it" can be more technically referred to as "QoL issues" and "underpowered", things which one might note have frequently prompted changes that have ended up very positive for the game.
If they made the changes based on players being annoyed and the powers not being worth it then I would love to see a red letter state as much.
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1) All except a select few builds were made with Health/Stamina in, because people found running out of endurance to be a hassle.
2) They wanted people to be enthused about picking 'cool' powers, not 'having' to pick 3 powers to simply function at a 'basic' level.
But, say we want to get into hard numbers here. I'm no number cruncher, but I can sure have a shot with my friend Mids Builder here.
Say we have a Fire Blaster and their tier 9, given Fire is based pretty much on pure damag output with no other effects getting in the way.
Here we have the base numbers;
Inferno
End: 20.8
Acc: 105%
Rech: 360 secs
Damage = approx 472.2 (including DoT) [S 62.56, F (242.8 + 18.58 x 9) = 477.2]
Target: PbAoE, 25 ft
Effects: -100% Endurance on self, -1000% Recovery
Now, lets have a look at one of the top tier Pyro Judgements, shall we?
Pyronic Total Core Judgement
End: 20
Acc: 97.5%
Rech: 90 secs
Damage = approx 535.42 (including DoT) [ F (374.8 + 26.77 x 6) = 535.42]
Target: Targetted AoE, 25ft
Effects: None
So, what we have, in essence, is a power that is better straight out of the box (bar construction) than a signature tier 9 power. Not only that, but it's not unique to Blasters.
Comparisons;
-Inferno is a PbAoE, putting the user in harms way far more than Pyronic
-Pyrononic does more damage, costs less, has no penalties and recharges faster
-Pyronic is effected by Alpha slot bonuses, but cannot be slotted.
Let's see what slotting does, shall we?
Inferno: Slotted
Vanilla IOs: 3 Dam, 1 Acc, 2 Rech
End: 20.8
Acc: 149.5%
Rech: 196.4 secs
Damage = approx 940.1 (including DoT) [S 124.5, F (482.6 + 36.99 x 9) = 940.1]
Let's go all out, let's add in Build Up and Aim;
Acc: 254.2%
Damage = approx 1707.4 (including DoT) [S 226.2, F (876.6 + 67.18 x 9) = 1707.4]
Now, yes, that's a good lot of damage. Over three times what a Judgement can do.
BUT. That is balanced out with the following;
1) Inferno still likely will not kill all LTs and Bosses within a mob. Given you've now spent all your endurance, that likely means an instant faceplant.
2) You still need to be in PbAoE to use it, and given the cast time (3secs to Judgements 1 sec) it is entirely possible for mobs to be missed entirely.
3) Judgement can be fired twice more in the time it takes Inferno to recharge, for no penalty. That pretty much negates even the fully slotted and boosted Inferno's damage output on three entirely different mobs.
And this is the tier 9 supposed signature move of blasters. Why do you think people seem to love Rain of Arrows, Full Auto and the other non-drain nukes so much?
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I'd be a lot more confident in letting the devs handle it if they didn't have 7+ years of not handling it under their belts so far. We have no indication that it's even on their radar.
"Annoying" and "not worth it" can be more technically referred to as "QoL issues" and "underpowered", things which one might note have frequently prompted changes that have ended up very positive for the game. |
We certainly can agree that there is no indication the "issue of underpowered tier 9 blaster powers" is on their radar at all. I personally think that is due to the lack of merit in the issue set forth, but I could be wrong.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
@Techbot Alpha
Based on your last post I am pretty sure there is some kind of misunderstanding in what I have said, which once again dealt specifically with the words annoying and the phrase not worth it being driving forces for the devs to change powers within a powerset.
I am sure however, the devs will be interested in reviewing your posted numbers and have at it with you about that since that is their domain.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I just want blasters to get a damage buff to make them the king of damage dealing again.
@Joshua.
Reading another topic gave me reason to consider buffs for blasters. Most At's have seen some serious QoL changes but posters like Arcanaville have made a strong case that Blasters were left behind a bit and could use a little more love. Not everything that follows is an original idea of mine but I figured it wouldn't hurt to collect them here so the devs have a more comprehensive list of ideas to look at.
Here's a few quick ideas:
Buildup/Aim Ideas: Give them the Inner Light treatment that Peacebringers got OR for the 10 seconds they are active have Aim give a small unenhanceable defense buff and Buildup give a small unenhanceable resistance buff. A power like Targeting Drone could give a damage buff tacked on (like say a personal leadership: assault power)
Tier 9 Nukes: For blasters only, simply remove the crash from their Nukes and increase the mag of any mez effect associated with them to mag 4. Let those nukes grant survival through mez that's guaranteed to affect most (not all! and not elite!) bosses.
Secondary Effects: Add more soft mez secondary effects to some blaster primary and/or secondary abilities. The Fire Blast set could get a stun added to Blaze (much like radiation's cosmic burst), Devices Taser could have its range significantly increased, Burn from Fire Manipulation could give more than immob protection but also stun and sleep protection as well... nothing says "wake the f--- up!" like standing in fire :P Little ideas like this which don't fundamentall change the basic functions of the powers but let blasters take a little bit from the survivability/mez plate since everyone else seems to be nipping cookies from the damage plate.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30