City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Incarnate Trials - Size, Difficulty, and Order?

Agent White

By Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-02-22 21:16 in Player Questions

 

Posted

Is there a specific order the Incarnate trials are designed to go in? Or at least a general progression?

I know you CAN do them in any order you like, but obviously some are longer and/or harder than others. There's also the differences in how many people can go on each trial. Are the ones that allow bigger leagues generally longer and/or harder?

I guess I'm just comparing this to, say, WoW where endgame content had a lot of very specific progression and order to it. That is, you have to do dungeon X to get the key for raid Y, and you should probably have gear from raid Y before you attempt raid Z, etc.

Also, I know the info is available on the wiki, forums, and main site, but is there any actual in-game place to see information about the trials such as min/max league size? I get the impression a player who only plays and doesn't look stuff up online would have a very hard time learning how the trials work.

 

Posted

in game there are tool tips for each trial that explain the story behind the trial and the league size required for it, it does not explain difficulty though like level shifted AVs and such though

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
in game there are tool tips for each trial that explain the story behind the trial and the league size required for it, it does not explain difficulty though like level shifted AVs and such though
Aha! I never noticed those mouse-over pop-up tool-tips before. Thanks.

 

Posted

Easy: Baf, Lam, Keyes
Less Easy: TPN, MoM, UGT

# of players required can be found in game as mentioned.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix View Post
Is there a specific order the Incarnate trials are designed to go in? Or at least a general progression?
Open the LFG list, go to Incarnate Trials, read from bottom to top. That's the release order and the general progression in terms of story and difficulty.

Quote:
I know you CAN do them in any order you like, but obviously some are longer and/or harder than others. There's also the differences in how many people can go on each trial. Are the ones that allow bigger leagues generally longer and/or harder?
No, not really. League size isn't directly connected to difficulty. One of the earliest and easiest trials and the latest and somewhat difficult trial both have 8 to 16 size. The longest trial is the Underground Trial, easily, just because of the sheer length of the instance. It's like a long dungeon crawl. Most trials aren't over an hour and the well practiced ones can be done in as little as 15-20 minutes.

Quote:
I guess I'm just comparing this to, say, WoW where endgame content had a lot of very specific progression and order to it. That is, you have to do dungeon X to get the key for raid Y, and you should probably have gear from raid Y before you attempt raid Z, etc.
Nope, no progression like this. The trials are more or less divided by the level shifts. The earliest trials have none, all enemies are 54. Later trials go up as high as 54+3, so if you want to be effective you'll want to have all 3 level shifts (level 50+3 for players). However, an un-shifted 50 -can- participate in the 54+3 difficulty trial. That's really up to the league.

Quote:
Also, I know the info is available on the wiki, forums, and main site, but is there any actual in-game place to see information about the trials such as min/max league size? I get the impression a player who only plays and doesn't look stuff up online would have a very hard time learning how the trials work.
The pop up info as described will give you some info on what's to be done, but honestly the best teacher here is experience. Most servers have enough people running these that a majority of the league will know what to do, and the trials aren't bad about giving you prompts telling you what'll happen. And don't be afraid to ask, tell people you haven't done X trial before and they'll be happy to let you know what the order of events is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi View Post
Easy: Baf, Lam, Keyes
Less Easy: TPN, MoM, UGT
It seems fairly clear that the Devs are introducing them in a sort of "easier first, harder later" order. Your quick list here shows that what you labeled as the "easy" ones were the first ones released. The "hard" ones are the later ones.

Seems pretty likely that any new ones from now on will only continue to get harder. The Devs likely intended for them to be done in the rough order that they've been released but like Blue_Fenix implied there's no strict rule about that either way.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix View Post
Is there a specific order the Incarnate trials are designed to go in? Or at least a general progression?

Also, I know the info is available on the wiki, forums, and main site, but is there any actual in-game place to see information about the trials such as min/max league size? I get the impression a player who only plays and doesn't look stuff up online would have a very hard time learning how the trials work.
You're absolutely right. Folks that don't read the forums are typically more casual players and are not likely to have read the numerous guides that make iTrials a great deal easier.

For me, I generally get my level shift in Alpha through Weekly tfs. This way, when my toon is facing level 54 mobs, I'm only down 3 effective levels. However, there are a lot of players who obviously aren't concerned with their effectiveness and quite content to let the league carry some of their slack and do trials without a shift.

I recommend doing Baf, Lambda and keyes, working specifically on your lore and destiny enhancements. Don't use your rare or very rare on Judgement or Interface until you get your Level Shifted enhancements for Lore and Destiny slotted. (That's just the way I do it - I'm sure others will call me crazy or unrealistic to expect others to do things the way I do)

Once you have your level shifts, feel free to do any trial you wish in any order.

I recommend avoiding UGT and MoM until you're +3, as the Avatar is 54+2, as are the avs in MoM.

"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese

@Ukase

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukaserex View Post
I recommend avoiding UGT and MoM until you're +3, as the Avatar is 54+2, as are the avs in MoM.
Actually the Avatar of Hamidon is 54+1.

Scale from easiest to most difficult is a bit subjective.

However, despite my problems with some of the later trials and ONLY with a good league, I'd rate the trials this way easiest to most difficult:
  • BAF.
  • Keyes.
  • TPN (if everyone on the league has at least 2 level shifts).
  • Lambda (if at least half the league have 1-2 level shifts).
  • Original Keyes.
  • Underground with mostly +3 group.
  • BAF OR Lambda with a mostly unshifted group.
  • MoM with a mostly +3 group.
  • TPN if people aren't paying attention.
  • Underground with a mostly unshifted group.
  • MoM with an unshifted group.
Also, FYI:
  • BAF=54
  • Lambda = 54
  • Keyes=54
  • Underground = 54+1
  • TPN = 54+2
  • MoM = 54+2
  • DD = 54+3



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Posted

Thanks for the info, everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Also, FYI:
  • BAF=54
  • Lambda = 54
  • Keyes=54
  • Underground = 54+1
  • TPN = 54+2
  • MoM = 54+2
  • DD = 54+3
THIS. This is critical information that needs to be more clearly displayed in game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Actually the Avatar of Hamidon is 54+1.
This is the second time I've referred to the Avatar of Hamidon as being 54+2, and the second time I've been corrected. I know I saw the Avatar referred to as 54+2 somewhere, but can't find it now. Still, after the first correction, I did remember seeing later in the ugt that he was 54+1, yet my feeble brain seems to want to promote the Avatar.

"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese

@Ukase

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukaserex View Post
This is the second time I've referred to the Avatar of Hamidon as being 54+2, and the second time I've been corrected. I know I saw the Avatar referred to as 54+2 somewhere, but can't find it now. Still, after the first correction, I did remember seeing later in the ugt that he was 54+1, yet my feeble brain seems to want to promote the Avatar.
Oh, I agree that it feels like that the Avatar is higher in the Underground. Also you might be confusing the Underground version of the Avatar with the the MoM version of the Avatar.



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Posted

Kind of an odd distribution there levelwise. Be curious what the thinking is behind the spread.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Kind of an odd distribution there levelwise. Be curious what the thinking is behind the spread.
Who cares! I love a challenge. And so I run them hardest to easiest when I hit level 50!

*you can tell I'm joking right?*

 

Posted

I integrated the enemy levels into the wiki article. Thanks for that list, Snow Globe; until it was listed like that I didn't even think to incorporate it anywhere.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Incarnate_Trial

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
I integrated the enemy levels into the wiki article. Thanks for that list, Snow Globe; until it was listed like that I didn't even think to incorporate it anywhere.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Incarnate_Trial
It is actually a tiny bit more complicated than that list, as that list only covers the AVs, not the critters.



Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters