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You'll note that I'm not advocating them doing this.|
Originally Posted by Fugacity
I believe that creating a new IO set for a single power would be a waste of the Dev's time and effort.
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| My Willpower scrapper would love a new Healing/Resistance IO set to slot in High Pain Tolerance, but since I haven't been able to exploit an HO to gain both enhancement categories in the past should I now feel entitled to a new IO set? I would also like a new End Mod/Healing IO set to slot in Physical Perfection while we're at it. |
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| I merely noticed that no one had mentioned them as a solution to alleviate the loss of the Nucleolus exploit in this thread. Do you think the Resistance value of an Accuracy/Resistance IO(if created) would be any higher than those of an existing Resistance/Recharge IO? |
I've spent some time looking at the values in mids, using an EndMod/Acc and a Res/EndRed to stand in for an Acc/Res (since I slot Eclipse for neither EndMod nor EndRed), and I'm not actually all that interested. Oh sure, I can get about the same values for a four-slot configuration using five less enhancement boosters. But the super packs I opened gave me enough of them that I just don't care. Other people's slotting priorities (and willingness to use boosters) are likely to vary from mine though.
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| As for when I joined this forum, do you really believe I've only been playing since August 2011? |
-Morgan.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
You don't seriously think people didn't already use Res/Rchg IOs in Eclipse, do you? People have been using Res/Rchg in Eclipse before you even joined this forum. And I mean years before, not months. Even I probably used Res/Rchg IOs before then. This is not news.
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
I merely noticed that no one had mentioned them as a solution to alleviate the loss of the Nucleolus exploit in this thread. Do you think the Resistance value of an Accuracy/Resistance IO(if created) would be any higher than those of an existing Resistance/Recharge IO? If not, then my solution makes a lot of sense. As for when I joined this forum, do you really believe I've only been playing since August 2011? I've been playing since launch, this is just my second account.
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It's seriously not a new idea.
You'd know that if you've been playing since launch (and been reading the forums with your other account).
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
My Willpower scrapper would love a new Healing/Resistance IO set to slot in High Pain Tolerance, but since I haven't been able to exploit an HO to gain both enhancement categories in the past should I now feel entitled to a new IO set?
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There would certainly be nothing wrong with suggesting the idea, unless you're afraid of some jerk coming along and relentlessly insulting you for making a suggestion he or she didn't like.
Wow, TBH..such anger. For someone who just said you 'aren't playing with him anymore' you are certainly still posting a few replies to him.
Just cause someone does not CALL it an exploit, does not mean it isn't one. Maybe try making your suggestion in a less 'oh noes they nerfed my exploit, gimme a legit way to do the same thing, so I can sleep at night' way.
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Reading comprehension for the loss, I suppose. Both times I mentioned using Resistance/Recharge IO's I clearly stated that no one had yet mentioned them as possible solutions in this thread.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I suggested using rech/res IOs in Eclipse back in 2009.
It's seriously not a new idea. You'd know that if you've been playing since launch (and been reading the forums with your other account). |
As for how long I've been playing, my MA/SR had the original "Chun Li" style Storm Kick, I was around for Fire tank dumpster diving, Kora farming, Kraken farming, CoT Portal farming, doing bombing runs on Hamidon with my ill/storm's PA, doing the Respec trial when the failure rate was about 90%, killing 10000 rikti monkeys just to get the badge, first Winter event where every source of water was frozen over, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, but what do I know about CoH, right?
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
There would certainly be nothing wrong with suggesting the idea, unless you're afraid of some jerk coming along and relentlessly insulting you for making a suggestion he or she didn't like.
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Quote:
Yeah, anyone who has actually hung around the Kheldian forums at all within the past 3 years would actually know this--it's sort of one of those, you know, "herp derp" things.|
Originally Posted by Fugacity
Reading comprehension for the loss, I suppose. Both times I mentioned using Resistance/Recharge IO's I clearly stated that no one had yet mentioned them as possible solutions in this thread.
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We expect anyone with half a brain to either know this, or have the ability to do a search on it. The "search" function is there for a reason--not to mention a sticky'd guide thread at the top of these forums.
On top of all that, this wasn't a thread about using res/rech IOs either... It was about a suggestion regarding Acc/Res IOs. Which is completely different than Rech/Res IOs. The only thing they have in common is...ummm... Resistance.
So, yeah... Reading comprehension for the lose, I guess.
But, you weren't here to actually contribute to the thread, were you?
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Disagree that this was a 'nerf'. It was an exploit, although a minor one in some cases (although ludicrous in others AKA boosting Defense Debuff Resistance).
Disagree that the only power in the game with an "Accurate Resistance Power" needs it's own "Enhancement". Just... slot Eclipse with Accuracy, Recharge, and Resistance. If it happens, cool... but it's the only power in the game with these qualifications. It's probably a waste of effort to put in a whole new HamiO that people might be really pissed if they get, since it's so niche.
Fixing an exploit is always a good thing. Just five-slot Eclipse with two Resistance/Recharge IO's, a Recharge IO, a Resistance IO, and an Accuracy IO. Worried about the 'lack of accuracy'? Enhancement booster it (WHILE SUPPORTING THE PARAGON MARKET WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE) or rely on your +Set Accuracy Bonuses.
I see no problems here. Exploit is fixed, all is well.
PS: Told you I'd post here. Didn't laugh, though.
PSS: You and everyone else should just be lucky Paragon didn't curb-stomp ban you all for breaching ToS. That should be your reward IMO.
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So what you're saying is, if I hang around these forums long enough I will sort of, you know, gain your expert knowledge of "herp derp" things?|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Yeah, anyone who has actually hung around the Kheldian forums at all within the past 3 years would actually know this--it's sort of one of those, you know, "herp derp" things.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
We expect anyone with half a brain to either know this, or have the ability to do a search on it. The "search" function is there for a reason--not to mention a sticky'd guide thread at the top of these forums.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
But, you weren't here to actually contribute to the thread, were you?
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Hey, this is completely off the topic of the thread, but I'd just like to throw some general advice out there.
If you stop feeding the trolls, they eventually go back under the bridge.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Good point.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hey, this is completely off the topic of the thread, but I'd just like to throw some general advice out there.
If you stop feeding the trolls, they eventually go back under the bridge. |
I sometimes forget that trolls are just here to troll and nothing else.
Mah bad.
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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I suppose we're using different standards to determine what's called an exploit and what isn't. The DDR thing? That's an exploit. The DDR of the power in question was just plain not supposed to be enhanceable. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Disagree that this was a 'nerf'. It was an exploit, although a minor one in some cases (although ludicrous in others AKA boosting Defense Debuff Resistance).
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Eclipse? It's supposed to be enhanceable for everything it was getting enhanced for. The only questionable part to me was that it was giving schedule A enhancement instead of schedule B, but that's pretty minor by comparison.
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| It's probably a waste of effort to put in a whole new HamiO that people might be really pissed if they get, since it's so niche. |
-Morgan, for the record, has never even had any HOs. Res/Rchg x3 + Acc/Rchg x(1-2) ftw.
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It's considered an exploit by the developers. I can confirm this from conversation with them on the subject.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
Eclipse? It's supposed to be enhanceable for everything it was getting enhanced for. The only questionable part to me was that it was giving schedule A enhancement instead of schedule B, but that's pretty minor by comparison.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Read the in-game description for a Nucleolus HO. It should never have been enhancing Damage Resistance, only Accuracy and Damage. If you don't see the reason using it to increase Resistance was an exploit, then no further amount of explaining will possibly convince you. |
Originally Posted by Morganite
I suppose we're using different standards to determine what's called an exploit and what isn't. The DDR thing? That's an exploit. The DDR of the power in question was just plain not supposed to be enhanceable.
Eclipse? It's supposed to be enhanceable for everything it was getting enhanced for. The only questionable part to me was that it was giving schedule A enhancement instead of schedule B, but that's pretty minor by comparison. |
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Originally Posted by Morganite
That's why I'm suggesting just giving Nucleolus a schedule B resistance component. Eliminates the exploitative part, preserves the usefulness, everyone's happy. Except Fugacity, I suppose.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hey, this is completely off the topic of the thread, but I'd just like to throw some general advice out there.
If you stop feeding the trolls, they eventually go back under the bridge. |
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Wouldn't be the first thing I've thought they were wrong about.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
It's considered an exploit by the developers. I can confirm this from conversation with them on the subject.
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
Read the in-game description for a Nucleolus HO. It should never have been enhancing Damage Resistance, only Accuracy and Damage. If you don't see the reason using it to increase Resistance was an exploit, then no further amount of explaining will possibly convince you.
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And if you don't see the reason why it's not all that much of an exploit, I'm starting to feel the same way about you?
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| Why reward players who have been exploiting the system by preserving that exploit after finally having fixed it? It would preserve the exploit, and eliminate the usefulness of the fix. |
Seriously, if the only thing the HO change affected was Eclipse, they probably wouldn't even have bothered.
-Morgan. Would you like it more if I suggested putting schedule B resistance on Endoplasms?
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Originally Posted by Morganite
Wouldn't be the first thing I've thought they were wrong about.
"Should never have" does not equal "is a bad idea for it to be able to". And if you don't see the reason why it's not all that much of an exploit, I'm starting to feel the same way about you? Eliminate the usefulness of the fix? You mean it'd also allow people to once again use HOs to get schedule A enhancement in powers that are only supposed to be enhanceable at schedule B and enhance DDR in Active Defense? The stuff that's something more resembling actually broken? Seriously, if the only thing the HO change affected was Eclipse, they probably wouldn't even have bothered. -Morgan. Would you like it more if I suggested putting schedule B resistance on Endoplasms? |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
It doesn't matter what our personal feelings on matter are its how dev's feeling about it (and their finance managers on that matter)
1) Correcting something partially is no good on both programming and financial fronts (there are exceptions unfourtunatly this is not one of them) due to nature of HO's, the bug couldn't be fixed without bringing down game for weeks if not months (it was after all a bug about how buffs and debuffs works in this game not just xxx enhacement acting weird) and its an undesirable condition so they left it going for 7 years until they can find and implement a solution to correct bug in its core.
2) Because of financial managers also have a say in the matters its unlikely you will get a set for just one power (its also debatable if devs want to spend their time on a set for just one power to begin with). If there will be more accurate resistance powers in the future we may get one after that but its unlikely we will get one in the near future.
I would also prefer an accurate resistance set in eclipse but on a financial and programming level it looks nigh-impossible to get it at this point.
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Except this isn't something they can be wrong about.|
Originally Posted by Morganite
Wouldn't be the first thing I've thought they were wrong about.
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They are the ones that define what exploits are. You are never supposed to be able to hit the ED cap for an attribute in two enhancements. This is only happening because the Nucs were never intended to be used in this manner.
This isn't even the first exploit of this nature that got fixed. I used to have hamis in my Protector bots that were for enhancing -defense. Like the Nucs, they were enhancing +defense on an improper enhancement schedule. Yes, it bothered me when they changed it, but I adapted and moved on. I couldn't fall back on any other sets to get my defense like we can with Eclipse and its resistance.
Let's face the music here. We cannot reasonably expect development time to be spent developing an entire set category for just one power.
You'd be better off asking for Kheldian's Grace to have +resistance enhancement values and able to be thrown into Eclipse.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Keep in mind, there wasn't just a request for an "entire set"... There was also a suggestion for a single enhancement.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Let's face the music here. We cannot reasonably expect development time to be spent developing an entire set category for just one power.
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You keep referring to development time as if that's a bad thing--as if fulfilling paying customer's requests wasn't part of their job description.
I remember a day (as I'm sure you do as well) when asking for travel powers to be given at earlier levels (rather than level 14) or even being taken before some of their prerequisite power choices was considered laughable by some members on these boards--as in, "there's no way the developers would put that much time and effort (and development) into something like that. They have it set up that way for a reason, and there's no reason to expect it to change!"
You could basically say the same for the "development time required" to make an entirely new set such as "Street Justice," when we already had Martial Arts (which could already have punching animations, mind you). It's almost redundant. But they did it anyway. Because it was requested.
You know, there was a time a while back before all these massive changes to the game over these past couple of years when I was against all these game overhauls. Maybe it was because I was an old codger and wanted "my game" to be exactly the way I liked it. Maybe not.
Either way, I eventually grew up and learned that if I planned on continuing to play this game, I needed to evolve with it.
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
|
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Alien,
Posting from my phone, please excuse brevity. I feel like you are reading too much into my reply. I didn't mention the single enhancement because I don't see a problem with that.
As to the other stuff. How many people did street justice appeal to? They also sold street justice. That development time was justifiable. A new set category that can be used in one power on an AT that is not very popular cannot be justified. A new hami o to enhance acc and resist? Much more feasible. At least demon mms could also use it.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
FYI, I've never been offended by short responses. 
'Preciate you taking the time to continue the discussion.
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
|
76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
Not so much the short response I'm worried about. Quick posts from a phone tend to sound snippy.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I have not read all of this thread...
I use acc/end mods and resist/rech frankenslotting for eclipse...
73% acc
102% rech
44% resist
21% end mod
21%end reduction
no problems at all... (aside that devs still hate the aliens...)
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
... Since when did the Eclipse HamiO "exploit" get nerfed? Cus if thats so...
*Rushes to rearrange his Warshade's build* WHYYYY!?!?!?!?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL INFLUENCE! T_T
Templar of Truth Level 50+++ Triform Peacebringer - Server Freedom
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
Gaze into the Abyss... OR ...Walk in the LightTemplar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
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It's a fix that's coming next week, with the new issues release. |
Originally Posted by Diggaroo
... Since when did the Eclipse HamiO "exploit" get nerfed? Cus if thats so...
*Rushes to rearrange his Warshade's build* WHYYYY!?!?!?!?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL INFLUENCE! T_T |
... Except for Eclipse. Eclipse breaks the expectations set by the rest of the invention system, which somehow seems like a *bad thing* to me. It's esthetically displeasing, if nothing else.
Now, that doesn't make Accurate Resistance enhancements not something with limited use, which is why I don't support adding a new enhancement category. There's easier ways to fill that void well enough for most purposes.
*May not actually be true, depending in part on whether or not you think enhancing the debuff in Dark Melee attacks is useful. I don't. Anyway, it's hypothetical, hypothetical!
(Also neither of those things you suggest has enough Res for my taste.)