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If one failure on a Task Force is all it would take to turn them off, then, to reiterate, is that really the lesson the CoH community wants its new players to learn?
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Originally Posted by TonyV
I'd rather us succeed with some team inspirations than fail and turn the new people off of task/strike forces on probably one of the first ones they've tried.
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The team inspirations are actually less potent, not considering their duration, than standard variety. Chugging a couple team insps to get through a tough spot is roughly equivalent to having the team take turns exiting the mission, going to the hospital and buying a certain inspiration loadout. I've been on TFs where we had to do that before, and guess what? It's boring and obnoxious and anti-fun. If all of that can be condensed into one enterprising team member clicking through a couple team insps, fantastic.
It's quite clear that you dislike the super packs, TG, but this isn't the most convincing way to debunk their virtues.
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I have to say, even though I'll never use the things in the "normal" course of play, one of the team-sized Escape inspirations I got from my little set of superpacks did come in handy in the Avatar fight on our Friday Underground run. It was an excellent suppliment between Clarion activations.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Pay-to-help-with-tight-spots boosters.
Actually, no, make that pay-to-get-stuff, help-with-tight-spots-as-a-fringe-benefit boosters.  |
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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We got over the hoards of Winterlord babies. We got over the hoards of AE babies. I think we can handle a bunch of newbies not knowing their way around a single Task Force.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If one failure on a Task Force is all it would take to turn them off, then, to reiterate, is that really the lesson the CoH community wants its new players to learn?
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Yet another thread on superpacks - oh yay.
Not like a half dozen is enough.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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It's true, I have made my position about the Super Pack selling model of random rewards and exclusive items quite clear, but in this case, it's the pay-to-win side of the new inspirations that rub me the wrong way, regardless of how they were obtained. The idea that new players would get the impression they were necessities of any kind, rather than dispensible supplements, is bothersome.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It's quite clear that you dislike the super packs, TG, but this isn't the most convincing way to debunk their virtues.
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The happiest outcome for TonyV's story would have been, "But then after faceplanting a few times, we regrouped, discussed our strategies, then went back and kicked ***!" Wiping is a time-honored tradition in MMO raiding, for newbies and vets alike. It builds (forgive the pun) character.
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We should get a discount for making Super Pack threads in bulk.
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Yet another thread on superpacks - oh yay.
Not like a half dozen is enough. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But that would only encourage _more_ threads.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
We should get a discount for making Super Pack threads in bulk.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Surely that would increase the odds of one of them being a reasonable discussion?
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
But that would only encourage _more_ threads.
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I'm pretty sure the happiest outcome for TonyV's story was the way TonyV already stated it was. Perhaps you meant to say "the happiest outcome for TrueGentleman's story would be if...".
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
The happiest outcome for TonyV's story would have been, "But then after faceplanting a few times, we regrouped, discussed our strategies, then went back and kicked ***!" Wiping is a time-honored tradition in MMO raiding, for newbies and vets alike. It builds (forgive the pun) character.
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I'll let TonyV speak for himself, but for the overall CoH community, there's no question that newbies learning to listen to their teammates and employ the right tacticsfundamental and uncontroversial skills in all MMOsis a better outcome than their bacon being saved by any kind of pay-to-win inspirations.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I'm pretty sure the happiest outcome for TonyV's story was the way TonyV already stated it was. Perhaps you meant to say "the happiest outcome for TrueGentleman's story would be if...".
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In my seven years of playing this game, I've learned that it'd be a lot easier to herd cats than it is to get any two or more players in a PUG to listen to your directions. And like I mentioned before, we've had a lot worse happen in this game, with respect to bad players contributing to bad experiences. So just because we have these new team inspirations that could save a doomed taskforce from failure does not mean the sky is falling.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
I'll let TonyV speak for himself, but for the overall CoH community, there's no question that newbies learning to listen to their teammates and employ the right tacticsfundamental and uncontroversial skills in all MMOsis a better outcome than their bacon being saved by any kind of pay-to-win inspirations.
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Not intending to derail too hard here but if you consider success to be the overcoming of adversity and salvaging of bad situations, then teaming with veteran players at all is surely more deleterious to success than these inspirations are. I try to build characters that remove the possibility of team failure singlehandedly. Fair point if you don't like that either but the game as a whole went down that road years ago.
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Who said anything about the sky falling or any other kind of hyberbolic doom? (That is, apart from you.)|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
So just because we have these new team inspirations that could save a doomed taskforce from failure does not mean the sky is falling.
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If you can't have a simple discussion without caricaturing someone else's opinion, then are you just posting to increase your forum count?
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LOL what?|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Who said anything about the sky falling or any other kind of hyberbolic doom? (That is, apart from you.)
If you can't have a simple discussion without caricaturing someone else's opinion, then are you just posting to increase your forum count? |
I think you need to take that chip off your shoulder or something. If you don't like other peoples' opinions on your opinion, then maybe it's best that you don't share yours.
I have an idea, let's not have a big fight. This thread has been so darn nice so far!
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Sounds more like you can't be bothered to listen to other people's opinions when in a discussion. If you really want to write off your interlocutors as doomsayers when they disagree with you, then there are plenty of more volatile forums on the Internet than this one.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
If you don't like other peoples' opinions on your opinion, then maybe it's best that you don't share yours.
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I think you've made your own opinion so abundantly clear that even the forums for other MMOs that no one here even posts on know what it is by now.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Sounds more like you can't be bothered to listen to other people's opinions when in a discussion. If you really want to write off your interlocutors as doomsayers when they disagree with you, then there are plenty of more volatile forums on the Internet than this one.
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BTW, I notice how quick you are to engage in hyperbole the moment you think to perceive it in others. Nice going!
QR: I've really enjoyed them. I've had about... 29 packs? (bought the bulk lot and got 5 extra over time just for something and giggles) and I can't say there's anything I can't use.
No black wolf... but tehn I don't really care about it - in one sense I'd rather get something good. But I now have more merits than if I'd got a toon to 50 and run all the TFs and stuff... plus some useful team stuff too.
I enjoy turning the cards over just to see what I got... thats part of the fun.
Plus, I buy these willingly and get cool stuff AND keep my favourite game alive!
What's not to like?
Thelonious Monk
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You seem to be under the false impression that I just clicked a few buttons and *poof!* we were done. We still had to fight the battle.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
It's true, I have made my position about the Super Pack selling model of random rewards and exclusive items quite clear, but in this case, it's the pay-to-win side of the new inspirations that rub me the wrong way, regardless of how they were obtained.
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The team inspirations merely took a situation in which we were at a severe disadvantage due to our team leader leaving (leaving us shorthanded) and half of our team being very inexperienced and turned it to our favor. It wasn't "pay-to-win." It was pay-to-have-a-decent-chance. It took something that was a bit frustrating due to things beyond our control and turned it fun. Also, it's not like I popped them and though, "That's it, we've got this one wrapped up." It crossed my mind more than once that we might still have failed. We didn't defeat that Cleansing Flame with a ton of time to spare, and if it had healed Positron back up to full, it could have cost us the task force.
But thanks in part to the inspirations, that didn't happen, and we succeeded, and a likely futile faceplantfest was turned into a pretty exciting battle. Even if we had failed, I still would have been pleased, because either way, we had tried and lost, lessons learned, and I felt like I was helping to give my team its best chance of trying again and winning. It was fun.
Yes, you could go overboard with it. There's nothing stopping you from spending $1000 in the store, stocking up on large team dual inspirations, and popping them willy-nilly to the point where your team would never lose at anything. Truth be known, if I teamed up with someone who did that, I probably wouldn't team with them again because 1) I like some challenge in what I'm doing, and 2) it would bother me in a cosmic sense that someone is wasting that much money on something so frivolous. Luckily, I don't think anyone has really done that kind of thing.
These inspirations were meant, in my opinion, precisely for the purpose for which I used them: To turn something that was mildly frustrating and a little bit discouraging into something fun.
So yeah, in spite of the rain on this parade, I'm going to have to whip out my
brella.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Fair enough. Did the newbies learn to ignore the other targets and focus on that Cleansing Flame? Bothersome as the implications of the amped-up Super Pack inspirations may be (or not), that's the important thing in the end.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
It wasn't "pay-to-win." It was pay-to-have-a-decent-chance. It took something that was a bit frustrating due to things beyond our control and turned it fun. Also, it's not like I popped them and though, "That's it, we've got this one wrapped up." It crossed my mind more than once that we might still have failed. We didn't defeat that Cleansing Flame with a ton of time to spare, and if it had healed Positron back up to full, it could have cost us the task force.
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I honestly don't know. I think so, maybe. Honestly, I think that it will take them a little more time before they grasp specific strategies like that. I mean, I'm not convinced that they even saw the Cleansing Flame, it is a tiny little thing that you really have to watch for. Even if they did, I'm not sure they processed what I was saying well enough to realize that they need to quickly switch their targets back and forth. But at any rate, I honestly don't think that me using team inspirations detracted from their experience or caused some bad habit to be formed, and I was happy to make it through a task force that I was kind of questionable about with something I honestly just considered a minor little perk that I wasn't sure when I was going to use.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Fair enough. Did the newbies learn to ignore the other targets and focus on that Cleansing Flame? Bothersome as the implications of the amped-up Super Pack inspirations may be (or not), that's the important thing in the end.
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We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Actually I think super packs may actually improve the sale of standalone consumables because you end up trying them, since they get dropped on you, and players may now consider spending points on them now that they see their usefulness where before a player my have been hesitant to spend the points on X of something when they didn't know its usefulness.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Back in 1999 or 2000. Players today don't need to put up with such nonsense when there are 212323232121 mmos to play.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
It's true, I have made my position about the Super Pack selling model of random rewards and exclusive items quite clear, but in this case, it's the pay-to-win side of the new inspirations that rub me the wrong way, regardless of how they were obtained. The idea that new players would get the impression they were necessities of any kind, rather than dispensible supplements, is bothersome.
The happiest outcome for TonyV's story would have been, "But then after faceplanting a few times, we regrouped, discussed our strategies, then went back and kicked ***!" Wiping is a time-honored tradition in MMO raiding, for newbies and vets alike. It builds (forgive the pun) character. |
I'd rather they use insp and keep playing then be turned off certain content.
EDIT: I also don't think high stakes content like raids or tfs is the best place to learn team strategy. More casual play like regular teams is the best place for that training, so that when the high stakes content comes up folks are ready for it. Learning while doing something that's timed or folks are time limited for personally is not a really good thing. As Tony mentioned people were ready to quit.
MMO players of today aren't the same as the ones of the past. There are so many mmo options out there that they don't need to be. I applaud Tony's effort for not getting folks turned off doing content.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Without the inspirations, it would have been very difficult to succeed, and at least one of them was talking about quitting. ("Well, this isn't going to happen.") After a minute of convincing everyone to give it one more go, we succeeded. I'd rather us succeed with some team inspirations than fail and turn the new people off of task/strike forces on probably one of the first ones they've tried.
And besides that, I wanted to succeed. If we had failed, I wouldn't have been devastated or anything, but I had put that a bit of time into it already, so it was worth burning off a few team inspirations to go ahead and get over the hump and pick up the badge and end-of-strike force rewards.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)