Does Locational Defense and damage type defense stack?
By
Biscuits_EU,
Posted on: 2012-01-31 22:48 in Player Questions
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Resistance is indeed always typed, because "melee resistance" is not a stat that actually exists in this game. Defense from powers is NOT all positional, though - Super Reflexes is positional, and so is Shield and Ninjitsu, but Invulnerability, Willpower, and Energy Aura are typed, for example.|
Originally Posted by EarthFury
From what I recall for powersets Defense is always versus locational (ranged, melee, aoe) and resistance is always versus damage type (fire, cold, energy, etc.)
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The two categories of defense do not add together - the game just uses the highest defense applicable against each attack. This means that you're usually better off building for the kind of defense your power set already gives you.
Defense will check off of whatever stat is highest.
For example fire blast is typed to check for fire defense and ranged defense. If you have 20% defense to fire and 45% defense to ranged, it will only check for it's chance to hit against ranged defense and ignore the fire defense completely.
Thanks guys for the great info. Bummer, going to make it challenging to optimize my sets. Defense bonuses being all over the map I guess the a not infrequent useless set bonus is just a fact of the game.
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It's actually not going to be as tough as you think, because you picked Super Reflexes - the highest defense set in the game.|
Originally Posted by EarthFury
Thanks guys for the great info. Bummer, going to make it challenging to optimize my sets. Defense bonuses being all over the map I guess the a not infrequent useless set bonus is just a fact of the game.
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Step 1 - Take all the powers from Super Reflexes (Elude is optional)
Step 2 - Put 3 level 50 Defense Buff common IOs in each of the Defense toggles and auto powers. Remember to add some endurance reduction to the toggles.
Step 3 - Take Combat Jumping from the Leaping pool. Put a level 50 Defense Buff IO in it.
Step 4 - Take Boxing or Kick (your choice) from the Fighting pool. Most people never use this power, they just use it to unlock the other powers. Take Tough and Weave. Put three level 50 Defense Buff commons in Weave (and some End Reduction, of course). Put a Steadfast Protection: resist/+3% Defense in tough, in addition to Resistance Buff and Endurance Reduction to taste (I just use the Steadfast, and never even turn on Tough).
Step 5 - Put all 6 pieces of Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control in Build Up (or Follow Up, Blinding Feint, Soul Drain, or whatever Build Up equivalent your set has) or in Tactics (from the Leadership pool) or in Focused Accuracy (from Body Mastery, Weapons Mastery or Mace Mastery in the Epic pools).
If you plan on exemplaring a lot, get the seven IOs I listed above at the lowest levels you can, so you don't lose the bonuses while exemplared.
With this slotting, you'll have about 45% defense to Melee, Ranged and AoE, and the cost will be relatively low. Remember to use your Alignment and Reward Merits to pick up a few of these IOs if any of the prices seem too high on the market. 45% is a significant number (generally called the "Soft Cap"), because at this point, larger bonuses don't reduce an enemy's chance to hit you any more; it only serves as a buffer against defense debuffs (the above build caps your Defense Debuff Resistance, so that's of little impact to you) and/or To Hit buffs on the enemy (which suck. You'll need to learn who the buffers are and take them out first).
Of course, you can drop the extra powers and make up the difference in set bonuses, but I find that this combination is the quickest and cheapest way to the soft cap; if you try it and don't like it, the loss is pretty minimal.
@Roderick
Shield tanks can hit the soft cap just through powers and a single Steadfast Res/Def. SR tanks can hit it through power choice alone, with no IOs necessary at all. That's because they get higher base values on their defense powers.
Also, the reason typed and positional defense don't stack is kind of thematic. With positional defense it is assumed you are dodging the attack, while with typed defense it is assumed you are deflecting it somehow. That's why Super Reflexes and Ninjitsu are positional defense, and Ice Armor and Energy Aura are typed defense. SR and Ninjitsu let you dodge the attack, while Ice and Energy have the attacks bouncing off a barrier you've placed around yourself.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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So what's Shield's excuse for being positional?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Also, the reason typed and positional defense don't stack is kind of thematic. With positional defense it is assumed you are dodging the attack, while with typed defense it is assumed you are deflecting it somehow. That's why Super Reflexes and Ninjitsu are positional defense, and Ice Armor and Energy Aura are typed defense. SR and Ninjitsu let you dodge the attack, while Ice and Energy have the attacks bouncing off a barrier you've placed around yourself.
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I usually think of typed vs positional in a slightly different way from what Claws explained - positional defense prevents you from getting hit in the first place, typed defense protects you from attacks that hit you. So deflecting it with a shield strapped to your arm is positional, and you'd block a grenade blast and a fire-breathing mutant in the same way, but differently than you'd deflect a punch (hence those being different powers in /SD). Meanwhile, for typed defense like /EA, a force field that absorbs kinetic energy will stop the punch and grenade equally well, but would not prevent you from being engulfed in flames. Or Invuln's bulletproof skin will protect you from physical damage, but won't help at all against electrocution. And of course, no amount of dodging will prevent a psychic from frying your mind, but a psionic shield can.|
Originally Posted by Biscuits_EU
So what's Shield's excuse for being positional?
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Of course, this doesn't hold up perfectly, because it's a vast simplification from realism for the sake of making the game work. An equally valid reason they don't stack is because that would make +def (all) buffs twice as powerful.
I haven't really thought of it, I usually just assume my guy is dodging stuff but... what is Willpower doing then? Ignoring fire through the sheer force of his awesomeness (ie: deflection)?
Willpower maybe "should" have been positional, since its only defense power is named Heightened Senses, but... eh, don't think about it too hard.
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Pretty much, yeah. A man who walks through the flames doesn't dodge them, he just ignores them because, much like the famed honey badger, he just doesn't give a ****.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
what is Willpower doing then? Ignoring fire through the sheer force of his awesomeness
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@Roderick
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Does he then go and eat a snake? Ewwww, that's disgusting.
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Originally Posted by Roderick
Pretty much, yeah. A man who walks through the flames doesn't dodge them, he just ignores them because, much like the famed honey badger, he just doesn't give a ****.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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...Indomitable Will (+Def: Psionics)|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Willpower maybe "should" have been positional, since its only defense power is named Heightened Senses, but... eh, don't think about it too hard.
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And without thinking about it too hard, the environmental awareness is keyed to things that will burn, freeze, blast or lifedrain you. You're not concerning yourself with things that will punch or poke you because you're already using your awesomeness against them, and things that will brainfry or poison you aren't things this power makes you aware of.
You then use this awareness to calmly get out of the way before these things burn, freeze, blast or lifedrain you.
Premium accounts can't edit signatures.
Huh.
Some typed defenses say "Absorbed" when they stop an attack because the rationale is that the attack hits and is absorbed or negated by your powers.
Defense and resistance are actually used in different parts of the combat mechanics and the difference between typed and positional defences is conceptual, not game mechanical.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I don't have time for your "facts"!|
Originally Posted by DJ_Korith
...Indomitable Will (+Def: Psionics)
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>.>
<.<
OK, yeah, your explanation is better than mine.
Absorbed damage is seen when a temporary power is accountable for you being missed. Energy Absorption, Moment of Glory and I think Shadow Meld (along with other powers) seem to do this. Outside buffs just say deflected but if it is a personal, click defense buff it says absorbed.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
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You have to physically move the shield to intercept the incoming attack. You cannot protect your entire body with a shield all at once, you can only protect yourself from attacks that you have moved the shield in front of. Your own reflexes are used to put the shield in the right place at the right time to stop incoming attacks. Hence, positional defense.|
Originally Posted by Biscuits_EU
So what's Shield's excuse for being positional?
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Energy Aura is typed defense because it doesn't matter which direction the attack is coming from, it protects your entire body all at once.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I have Super Reflexes scrapper with about 30% defense to Ranged, Melee, and AoE. From what I recall for powersets Defense is always versus locational (ranged, melee, aoe) and resistance is always versus damage type (fire, cold, energy, etc.) However in set bonuses you can actually get Defense to damage types. My question is does my 30% locational defense stack in some form with the set bonuses, let's say 3%, damage type defense? Making set bonuses defense go against the grain seems strange to me if indeed they don't stack. Thanks