City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

A revenue idea. Perhaps win/win/win?

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-01-31 15:33 in Suggestions and Ideas

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
You're right, my mistake (6:40 AM is not my best time). However, Paragon Points are still exchanged for in-game items, so my point still stands.
Which items are you referring to? AFAIK, all in-game items purchased are tied to that person's account, right?

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
Subscribe or buy them. That's how the system is set up. You can't get everything for free. Sorry.
Would you have any idea then how Paragon could make more money and get more people involved? (Genuinely curious, haven't seen such a thread by anyone) 'Cause if NCSoft doesn't like the numbers (which Posi's recent statement of 'success' lacked entirely) CoH is putting out, then Lineage (the original)'s fate (over here anyways) is what we'll see here.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
Which items are you referring to? AFAIK, all in-game items purchased are tied to that person's account, right?
Yes, all of which are usable in-game.

eesh.

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Would you have any idea then how Paragon could make more money and get more people involved? (Genuinely curious, haven't seen such a thread by anyone) 'Cause if NCSoft doesn't like the numbers (which Posi's recent statement of 'success' lacked entirely) CoH is putting out, then Lineage (the original)'s fate (over here anyways) is what we'll see here.
I can tell you one thing, if Paragon starts loading scummy ad-clicking practices into the game, they will lose myself and probably a lot of other players as paying customers. And don't try to act like you have the best interests of the game at heart here, you clearly just want something for nothing, but unfortunately the world does not work that way. Them's the breaks.

"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
'Cause if NCSoft doesn't like the numbers (which Posi's recent statement of 'success' lacked entirely) CoH is putting out, then Lineage (the original)'s fate (over here anyways) is what we'll see here.
Can you smell that?

Can you smell that?

I love the smell of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!! in the morning!

It smells like...DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
I just wish I could earn the damn PP... No wonder I usually lurk forums -.-
If polite disagreement with one of your suggestions bothers you so much, then maybe you should simply lurk the forums. At least until you have developed the maturity to cope with people not agreeing with you.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
If polite disagreement with one of your suggestions bothers you so much, then maybe you should simply lurk the forums. At least until you have developed the maturity to cope with people not agreeing with you.
It isn't disagreement that is the problem. It was the attacks on my person (the overly trusting remark, etc) that I had issue with, as well as your maturity insult just now. Grats, you are now part of the problem.

Anyhow, on topic, what I meant about just wanting to earn it, not everyone is exactly made of cash and if Paragon wants more people in, the poor need a chance as well, IMO.

EDIT: The "DOOM" joker can silence them-self and leave the thread; your post is pointless. I don't see any numbers in favor of F2P working is my issue.


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I can tell you one thing, if Paragon starts loading scummy ad-clicking practices into the game, they will lose myself and probably a lot of other players as paying customers. And don't try to act like you have the best interests of the game at heart here, you clearly just want something for nothing, but unfortunately the world does not work that way. Them's the breaks.
While I am not the best at specifics, my idea does not involve any in-game advertising or mentioning of the system in any way. As for something for nothing, I am working (such as on a survey) and bringing the game devs some extra cash in. I know the world does not work that way. .... Do I just need to scrap the OP or something? (Honestly asking, again not the best writer here).

 

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
Which items are you referring to? AFAIK, all in-game items purchased are tied to that person's account, right?
Not once the random packs go live, no.

Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
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Death is part of my attack chain.

 

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
It isn't disagreement that is the problem. It was the attacks on my person (the overly trusting remark, etc) that I had issue with
"Attacks" that you started making first with this post:

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
Seems like you (DarkGob) are getting confused.
And then you have a hissy fit when your own snark is returned

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
Seems like you (Ultimate Wrath) are getting confused,
You get what you give, and if you can't handle your own medicine, you are the one with the problem.


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as well as your maturity insult just now.
It's not an insult when it's true.


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EDIT: The "DOOM" joker can silence them-self and leave the thread; your post is pointless. I don't see any numbers in favor of F2P working is my issue.
His doom comment was as relevant to this thread as your own doom post he was responding to.

Oh and just an FYI you don't get to dictate who posts. He can stick around and share his opinions as long as he wants as long as he wants.


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While I am not the best at specifics, my idea does not involve any in-game advertising or mentioning of the system in any way. As for something for nothing, I am working (such as on a survey) and bringing the game devs some extra cash in. I know the world does not work that way. .... Do I just need to scrap the OP or something? (Honestly asking, again not the best writer here).

All suggestions are welcome You just got to get used to the fact that they aren't always going to garner support. There will always be disagreement.

 

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
EDIT: The "DOOM" joker can silence them-self and leave the thread; your post is pointless. I don't see any numbers in favor of F2P working is my issue.
Let's not and say I did.

Seriously. You're trying to set up a false dichotomy where Paragon grasps at a flawed plan like this being your optimal or...the game shuts down.

That's about as DOOOOOOOOM!!! as it gets.


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While I am not the best at specifics, my idea does not involve any in-game advertising or mentioning of the system in any way. As for something for nothing, I am working (such as on a survey) and bringing the game devs some extra cash in. I know the world does not work that way. .... Do I just need to scrap the OP or something? (Honestly asking, again not the best writer here).
It's still, essentially, an ad network.
It's something that needs to be policed or a rogue advertiser can end up pwning lots of systems.
Resulting in people not being able to use the systems, let alone play games on them.
Resulting in angry customers.
Resulting in possible lost revenues due to said angry customers spending it on technical support and reloading their system instead of frivolous stuff like online point-y things.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Oh and just an FYI you don't get to dictate who posts. He can stick around and share his opinions as long as he wants as long as he wants.
Thanks thanks.


Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

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'Facialbook' is going public, and is estimated to maybe hit the $5 BILL mark.
Pretty impressive for a free social network.
The way they make their $ is by advertisement. The games they have on their site have deals with advertisement companies and survey companies and most of these are trusted and respected companies.

As i mentioned before:
Make a new section in the forums dedicated to 'Earn Paragon Points' surveys.
Have a new thread for each company that hands out one or multiple surveys.
Have the thread start with the company's name and a link to their survey site. This means there is absolutely no intrusion from them to our game, our site or even to us personally.
Have people reply what they experienced from taking the survey, this to either warn people it could be a sham or make people feel at ease that is is a trusted survey, and also for Paragon Studios to see if they should take down the link or continue with the company. No feedback from the community is what causes the most issues on other sites like 'Facialbook' and 'YourSpace', and allows sham sites to operate on these social network sites.
Trusted survey companies, or even companies willing to offer a free trial for Paragon Points are easy to be found, i am sure that even one single person working for Paragon Studios can come up with new entries each week or every two weeks.

This is how a survey for PP is set up.
Contact is made between two companies, Paragon Studios and say 'Netphlix'. PS will get the offer from 'Netphlix' to buy say, 10mill Paragon Points and hopes to get players to use a free month trail, see if they can become customers. They'll offer 1kPP for everyone willing to sign up for a free trail. this info, and a link to their site will be posted on the dedicated forum section by PS. As soon as you completed the sign up, they'll send a notice to PS to deposit 1k PP from the 10mill PP they bought, on your account.

Same goes for companies who have been contracted to hold surveys.

Final thought:
*Would mean Paragon Studios would receive a new source of advertisement income.
*No intrusion of them into our game, our site or even personal.
*Sham companies will be gone fast, while the good companies will stay.
*Forum section can be ignored by people, meaning the ones who don't want to participate have no fear of being hacked or spammed.


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Thanks thanks.
Ya know, seeing it quoted I just realized I forgot to put in the periods I wanted for emphasize. I meant the very last to read:

as long as he wants . . . as. long. as. he. wants.

 

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
'Facialbook' is going public, and is estimated to maybe hit the $5 BILL mark.
Pretty impressive for a free social network.
The way they make their $ is by advertisement. The games they have on their site have deals with advertisement companies and survey companies and most of these are trusted and respected companies.
The money is there because the people are, not vice-versa. Facebook is something that's useful and relevant to nearly everyone on Earth who has an internet connection. An MMO -- any MMO, even "that one" -- isn't. Breaking into programming every so often with 3-5 minute blocks of advertising works for TV networks (NBC-Universal is worth about $30 billion); let's just interrupt the game with an ad in-between missions!

No, let's acknowledge that different media is different and treat it accordingly. Yeah, I like that one better.

Besides that, they've tried selling ad space to third parties once before and... notice you don't see it anymore? It wasn't worth it, for Paragon or the advertisers.

Next suggestion, please.

FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.

 

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
The money is there because the people are, not vice-versa. Facebook is something that's useful and relevant to nearly everyone on Earth who has an internet connection. An MMO -- any MMO, even "that one" -- isn't. Breaking into programming every so often with 3-5 minute blocks of advertising works for TV networks (NBC-Universal is worth about $30 billion); let's just interrupt the game with an ad in-between missions!

No, let's acknowledge that different media is different and treat it accordingly. Yeah, I like that one better.

Besides that, they've tried selling ad space to third parties once before and... notice you don't see it anymore? It wasn't worth it, for Paragon or the advertisers.

Next suggestion, please.
My idea isn't selling ad space in the game.
It is making a small dedicated section on the forums with each company having their own thread with a link in it.

I don't know where you got your idea from, but yeah, that is something i'll pass on too. My idea however, seems to make the most sense, as it is non invasive, people don't have to go there and are not forced to participate and it can receive feedback from the people who did letting others, incl Paragon Studios know if it's a sham or trustworthy.

This is a low risk, high gain plan.


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
Facebook is something that's useful and relevant to nearly everyone on Earth who has an internet connection.
Uhm. I'm going to have to just disagree with this and leave it at that.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
My idea isn't selling ad space in the game.
It is making a small dedicated section on the forums with each company having their own thread with a link in it.
Yes, you've explained that. Multiple times. Every time someone brings up a valid reason they don't like your idea, you assume they've just misunderstood and explain it again. Everyone understands your idea just fine. We just don't think it's a fine idea.

I don't give a damn whether the ads are actually placed in the game, in the forum, or on the main page of the website... the sale of ad space within City of Heroes to third parties has already been tried and dismissed as not worth it -- and last time, all it was was billboards that didn't require any interaction on the part of the player at all, and were in places where there were already fake billboards. An idea that actually requires people to seek out the ads on their own is going to go over even worse.

Third-party advertising isn't likely to happen again in any form. The end.

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
My idea however, seems to make the most sense...
...to you, who are apparently just dead-set on beating this horse. The idea that makes the most sense to me is to not implement a plan that involves possibly exposing your customers to ripoffs, malware or identity theft.

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
...and it can receive feedback from the people who did letting others, incl Paragon Studios know if it's a sham or trustworthy.
After the fact. Which is all well and good if everything runs smoothly. But if it doesn't, and one of these advertisers is a sham (or worse), that won't become apparent until something has already happened to someone, probably multiple someones. The only way to be absolutely sure would be to hire people -- likely a whole team of them -- to monitor all aspects of the setup.

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
This is a low risk, high gain plan.
No, there's quite a bit of risk. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But this is unnecessary risk. And that's just wasteful.

FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.

 

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
Yes, you've explained that. Multiple times. Every time someone brings up a valid reason they don't like your idea, you assume they've just misunderstood and explain it again. Everyone understands your idea just fine. We just don't think it's a fine idea.
Funny since i have been pretty quiet about it till you only highlighted part of my post and went into detail regarding things i never said. My reply was short and to the point.
Oh, and turn We into You. Some oppose this suggestion, and mine, and that is fine. Some however do think it is feasible. So there can't be a WE, since you can't talk for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
I don't give a damn whether the ads are actually placed in the game, in the forum, or on the main page of the website... the sale of ad space within City of Heroes to third parties has already been tried and dismissed as not worth it -- and last time, all it was was billboards that didn't require any interaction on the part of the player at all, and were in places where there were already fake billboards. An idea that actually requires people to seek out the ads on their own is going to go over even worse.
If people get something for free, they will find it.
Having a small section in the forums where people KNOW where to find this, wouldn't be so hard to find.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
Third-party advertising isn't likely to happen again in any form. The end.
Matt 'Positron' Miller: "Alignment switching will never become an instant switch thing." This was said in 2009, while discussing the new Alignment system.
Matt 'Positron' Miller: "Alignment Switch tokens will be made available on the Paragon Market, and will instantly allow Heroes/Villains to switch to Villains/Heroes." This was said late 2011, while discussing the new Alignment switch token.

Just goes to show that if there is money that could be made, people will explore the possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
...to you, who are apparently just dead-set on beating this horse. The idea that makes the most sense to me is to not implement a plan that involves possibly exposing your customers to ripoffs, malware or identity theft.
So i am dead-set because i reply to your reply to my post? Yeah.. makes sense. Meaning you are dead-set on keeping this horse dead because of.. uhmm.. what was your reason again? If you don't use the service, u won't be at risk, right?
At least some of us are trying to come up with a new source of income for the game, while others only want to bash peoples ideas and make themselves look good.
And if you don't want to be ripped off, get malware or viruses, or become a victim of Identity Theft i suggest you leave 'Facialbook' alone too.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
After the fact. Which is all well and good if everything runs smoothly. But if it doesn't, and one of these advertisers is a sham (or worse), that won't become apparent until something has already happened to someone, probably multiple someones. The only way to be absolutely sure would be to hire people -- likely a whole team of them -- to monitor all aspects of the setup.
I suggest to test out the waters to go only to major, and well respected companies. See if it is used by the players yes or no.
ps: 2 people is a team too :P

If Paragon Studios adopts a 'No refund' clause, have the survey company submit it's link to PS, and one employee tests the link out to see what it does, that could be the 1st step in making this more secure.


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post

I don't give a damn whether the ads are actually placed in the game, in the forum, or on the main page of the website.
Then why are you blowing steam about this if you don't care?


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell View Post
Oh, well if one other game doesn't do it that way, then clearly it's fundamentally impossible.

My mistake.

(Never mind that I specifically pointed out that I knew it was unlikely and extreme, nor that I also pointed out a number of less-extreme, more-likely scenarios that would also make this a bad idea. We'll ignore all that, though. No offense, but you obviously have zero idea what I'm talking about.)
so if it's so unlikely and extreme why even bring it up? hyperbole?

 

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Face it people Paragon studios have done A LOT of new things to bring in revenue that no one 3 years ago would even thought of and suggestions of such made by players on these forums were screamed bloody murder against(Free to play don't even try to deny it or I'll find the threads myself) by other players.

If this happens I wont be surprised not after free to play, not after cash shop and not after they started selling IOs for $$$.

 

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
At least some of us are trying to come up with a new source of income for the game

Oh is that all we're doing? Okay that's easy to do. If the company wants to make ore money they can sell something everyone wants.



Glazed Bacon Donuts.

Package'em in a CoH themed box (like the donut shop in Faultline) and sell them by the dozen on the Paragon Market for 800 points S&H included in the price.


They'd make a hell of a lot more money off of this than any other idea suggested so far in this thread.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Oh is that all we're doing? Okay that's easy to do. If the company wants to make ore money they can sell something everyone wants.



Glazed Bacon Donuts.

Package'em in a CoH themed box (like the donut shop in Faultline) and sell them by the dozen on the Paragon Market for 800 points S&H included in the price.


They'd make a hell of a lot more money off of this than any other idea suggested so far in this thread.
Not feasible.
Who, and where will they bake these, and don't forget packing and shipping costs. Plus i doubt that they can send them to the east coast or Europe and still be fresh.
BTW, since there is meat on the donuts, they can't even ship it out of the country.

They'll loose money on each of these great donuts they sell.



</sarcasm>


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
Who, and where will they bake these
They do the same thing they do when they want to sell other real life items. They make a business agreement with another company to make and package them. The donuts could even be individually wrapped.

Or did you think that NCSoft made their own Heroclicks and other RL items.

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and don't forget packing and shipping costs.
As I already said simply figure S&H into the purchase price, like many companies do, or they can give free S&H for purchases over a certain dollar amount.

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Plus i doubt that they can send them to the east coast or Europe and still be fresh.
And yet when I buy donuts and other baked goods online from places like Amazon, Walmart, Drakes, Tasty cake, etc, I have no problems with freshness.

I can even choose the speed in which the purchases gets delivered.

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BTW, since there is meat on the donuts, they can't even ship it out of the country.
What's your point? This wouldn't be the first time this company has sold things only in the US. Just ask any EU or AUS players. They already know the devs hate them.

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They'll loose money on each of these great donuts they sell.
</sarcasm>
You're just jealous that my idea is better than yours.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
You're just jealous that my idea is better than yours.
No, i'm jealous that you got a pic of such a tasty treat and i didn't know it existed.


Looking at your points, it does sound like it can be done, however i think the profit would not be as high since they have to have a 3rd party to do all this.
And that might end up costing Paragon Studios money if it isn't a huge success.


Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
No, i'm jealous that you got a pic of such a tasty treat and i didn't know it existed.
Were you aware that chocolate covered bacon strips are sold as well? I've had them with plain chocolate, covered in sprinkles, and crushed peanuts.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Were you aware that chocolate covered bacon strips are sold as well? I've had them with plain chocolate, covered in sprinkles, and crushed peanuts.

I think I just literally died.

"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...