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Other than to keep up with everyone elses' constantly inflating wallets? There isn't. But that's the nature of the free market. If you want socialism you need to go play in the paragon market. |
Originally Posted by Slazenger
If your not getting any richer what's the point of acquiring low tier salvage and putting a 500k price tag on it?
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Actually, that's the primary reason I would *encourage* pieces to be put on the paragon market as it creates a benchmark or how much an item is going to cost, rather than just inflating forever into the stratosphere. I'm not going to pay 2 billion influence for Kinetic Combats when I know I can just buy them from the store for like, 2 dollars, or 200 merits, or 2 alignment merits (or whatever it actually is.) It sort of keeps things balanced.
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I agree with what your saying, but my point is, if a certain playerbase wasn't so greedy, then you wouldn't need to purchase these enhancements with real money.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Other than to keep up with everyone elses' constantly inflating wallets? There isn't. But that's the nature of the free market. If you want socialism you need to go play in the paragon market.
Actually, that's the primary reason I would *encourage* pieces to be put on the paragon market as it creates a benchmark or how much an item is going to cost, rather than just inflating forever into the stratosphere. I'm not going to pay 2 billion influence for Kinetic Combats when I know I can just buy them from the store for like, 2 dollars, or 200 merits, or 2 alignment merits (or whatever it actually is.) It sort of keeps things balanced. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
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Oh I agree with you, but like I said, that's just the nature of the beast. Moral and Ethical issues aside, I can't go modify mankind, so you just kind of have to go with it, become God, or a crazy scientist.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
I agree with what your saying, but my point is, if a certain playerbase wasn't so greedy, then you wouldn't need to purchase these enhancements with real money.
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If it makes you feel any better, I often see common stuff selling for 50k or so, say "**** that" and just sell it for 11. That's mostly because I'm so lazy I can't be bothered to click on the numbers and change them, but I like to think I'm being all giving and what not.
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You say it like that's a bad thing.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
And when they catch you, you get a nice cozy cell, three square a day and all the butt-sex you can handle...
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Go to AE instead. Get 1,500 tickets from a single mission and spend 8 tickets per roll for common salvage. Spend all of them that way while you're at it! That's 187 common salvage. You're sure to get at least 1 of the ones you're looking for and then you can go sell the rest for 500k a piece just like everyone else! \o\ \o/ /o/
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Originally Posted by Sarha
Unless you don't want to have to wait for someone to post the common salvage that isn't worth anything but has been artificially 500,000 influence. I mean if you wait sure you won't be ripped off and you'll eventually get it for the price you want, but that is also boring. Although in the grand scheme of getting influence, 500k ain't that much - just frustrating to pay that much for something that is common.
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Nope! That player should not feel ripped off when there's no reason to pay that much influence or more for an enhancement unless it's purple.
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Originally Posted by Slazenger
The want it now aspect of the market has always allowed the potential for other players to reap rewards off of the less inclined to wait playerbase.
As an example 5 lotg's were selling for 100mil yesterday, one player brought all 5 and re-listed them for 200mil, impatient player turns up and wants it and ends up coughing up the 200mil, should he feel ripped off?. Well now as the paragon store offers an alternative method to purchase the enhancement he wants, he has a choice, does he get ripped off by the player or NcSoft. |
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Depends on if you're into that sorta thing or not.
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Originally Posted by FNG
You say it like that's a bad thing.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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And I waited a few days and got two level 25 LotG recipes for 80 million inf each.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
The want it now aspect of the market has always allowed the potential for other players to reap rewards off of the less inclined to wait playerbase.
As an example 5 lotg's were selling for 100mil yesterday, one player brought all 5 and re-listed them for 200mil, impatient player turns up and wants it and ends up coughing up the 200mil, should he feel ripped off?. Well now as the paragon store offers an alternative method to purchase the enhancement he wants, he has a choice, does he get ripped off by the player or NcSoft. |
Patience pays off! Amazing!
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Originally Posted by Slazenger
I agree with what your saying, but my point is, if a certain playerbase wasn't so greedy, then you wouldn't need to purchase these enhancements with real money.
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Culex's resistance guide
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Market Forces The Invisible hand. Dare I say economics? |
Originally Posted by Pitho
And I waited a few days and got two level 25 LotG recipes for 80 million inf each.
Patience pays off! Amazing! If people weren't willing to pay these prices, they wouldn't sell. Not to mention, trying to artifically limit the supply of something to raise prices is a great way to lose influence in the paragon market. If you see the price of something spike, either someone with a lot of inf wanted a lot of them to use for something (like say, a crafting badge), or they were willing to burn a bunch of inf to mess with market prices for like an hour or so. |
And puh-lease. If one more person says in game economics cannot be compared to real world economics because no one is manipulating the real world market in a similar fashion I will throw something. In this case, probably a fact.
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Not trying to be antagonistic here, but I would like to see those facts. I'm actually really interested, since I see a lot of differences besides the one you mentioned.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Market Forces The Invisible hand. Dare I say economics?
And puh-lease. If one more person says in game economics cannot be compared to real world economics because no one is manipulating the real world market in a similar fashion I will throw something. In this case, probably a fact. |
EDIT: Also I have to say that I wouldn't say that the real world economy is manipulated by in similar fashions, so I wouldn't even see that as a reason for the real world economy is different.
Current Mains:
151 Proof - Fire/Fire Tank (50) - Triumph
Celestial Hammer - TW/Elec Brute (50) - Triumph
Amphetami - Crab Spider (24) - Triumph
Global @TheDangerousNacho
Wow. Really? Blinks. Okay. I honestly am having a problem with you, or anyone, who does not understand the global economy has been manipulated by individuals since the very beginning of a global economy. But here is an easy one for you: The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries.
Let me give you this thought. We have people who spend, days, weeks, and months manipulating the CoH market for their earning niches and such. You agree? (If you do not agree with this please go to the Market section of the boards and ask.) I will assume you agree. Now, these people are doing this so their on-line characters can have more cash in game, right?
Exactly how much efffort do you think the the Bank for an entire country would put into their niches in the real world? There are some real world churches that have been involved in the global economy since the creation of a global economy. You think they might put a little efforrt into trying to get their part of the market to work in their favor.
It's much harder to manipulate a part of the CoH economy and not waste inf doing so. Mainly because you can't actually monopolize something; stuff is always being generated by other people. Try raising the price on something like a piece of salvage and mainly you just get other people listing it more for a while. And you've bought a bunch of overpriced salvage that you'll never be able to move at that price. And as soon as you stop the prices start moving towards where it was before. You might be able to sell a few overpriced bits of salvage to someone who's too impatient to wait a day with a bid (or is making enough of a profit off of what they're making that they don't care about overpaying a little).
No one in CoH gets rich off manipulating the market. Pretty much everything is getting inf off the impatient/ people paying a premium for convenience.
Culex's resistance guide
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There is some truth to what you are saying. But like all great falsehoods you need a germ of truth to make it believable. Sorry, harsh statement, but that is how I feel about what you just posted.|
Originally Posted by Pitho
It's much harder to manipulate a part of the CoH economy and not waste inf doing so. Mainly because you can't actually monopolize something; stuff is always being generated by other people. Try raising the price on something like a piece of salvage and mainly you just get other people listing it more for a while. And you've bought a bunch of overpriced salvage that you'll never be able to move at that price. And as soon as you stop the prices start moving towards where it was before. You might be able to sell a few overpriced bits of salvage to someone who's too impatient to wait a day with a bid (or is making enough of a profit off of what they're making that they don't care about overpaying a little).
No one in CoH gets rich off manipulating the market. Pretty much everything is getting inf off the impatient/ people paying a premium for convenience. |
Please spend an hour or so on the Market section of this Community Board. Ask a few questions about niche markets.
Yes, if I follow your example if I try to raise the price of a piece of common salvage to 20 million I will inevitably fail. That is not how it is done. People farm niches on recipes and the related I/O. Giant salvage swings are generally due to people trying to quickly get the Invention Badges. I actually caused one once. Tried to get it all done in one day, spent a few hundred million and made some truly stupid prices appear for regular bits of salvage I needed in bulk.
Marketeering in game is not something I do. Part of my work is to manage auctions in the real world. I absolutely refuse to do it in my gaming time. I would rather spend a little of my income paying NCsoft and have fun instead playing my character. I have decided to forego charging my Starbucks card to finance these NCSoft purchases. Now ask yourself this, is NCSoft manipulating the price of coffee?
I marketeer, mainly through buying up a few of a recipe every day, crafting an enhancer, then listing that enhancer and selling it. If I try to list an enhancer for too much, it just doesn't sell. It sits and takes up space in my auction inventory. So I price them to move fast. And then they usually end up selling for something like 5/ 10 million above what I listed them for. (usually closer to 5). Occasionally I get really bizarre price spikes where an enhancer sells for 15/20 million above what I'm listing them for.
This isn't price manipulation. The people buying the enhancers could wait a bit with a bid on a recipe, then craft it, like I'm doing. Instead they want the convenience of Buying It Now. So they pay a premium. Sometimes they pay an extra premium because they REALLLY don't want to even try making a second bid.
With a bit of patience you can save a lot of inf on a build. I've waited for weeks/months for bids to fill before. If you want to Buy It Now? It costs more. This is what marketeering makes inf off of.
Culex's resistance guide
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I apologize, I was tired this morning and forgot to include an "n't" on the end of my is in my final statement. I was trying to agree that there is real world manipulation of the market by individuals and other groups.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Wow. Really? Blinks. Okay. I honestly am having a problem with you, or anyone, who does not understand the global economy has been manipulated by individuals since the very beginning of a global economy. But here is an easy one for you: The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries.
Let me give you this thought. We have people who spend, days, weeks, and months manipulating the CoH market for their earning niches and such. You agree? (If you do not agree with this please go to the Market section of the boards and ask.) I will assume you agree. Now, these people are doing this so their on-line characters can have more cash in game, right? Exactly how much efffort do you think the the Bank for an entire country would put into their niches in the real world? There are some real world churches that have been involved in the global economy since the creation of a global economy. You think they might put a little efforrt into trying to get their part of the market to work in their favor. |
My only point I am trying to make is that there are some vast dissimilarities between our market and the real world market. We have no bankruptcy or debt for example. No matter how bad I am at using the market, Positron is never going to foreclose on my tanker. We also have the issue of not knowing of the price of what we are bidding for. In psychology they use these parameters so that you can never pay more than what you value something for, and you can never sell for less than you think it is worth. Of course we are bidding on imaginary items with fake money, it has no real value - so how do you really determine what something is worth to you. My point being in this that I value game money differently than real money and this different valuation changes how economics work. I'm not saying huge swaying differences, just enough that you can't apply economic theory as easily.
Saying all that I can't even remember why we are even really arguing econ 101. We all know that economics isn't 100% accurate. Economist argue how the real world economy works all the time and still don't get it right all the time. We don't have real economist (maybe we do on the board, I don't really know) studying the game economy - it really isn't worth the time.
So final points. Game economics have difference than real world economics, but not so vast that they are completely irrelevant. I see more of your points though about what you were saying about how to apply supply and demand to the market. I was just thinking about it in different terms of demand than patience vs impatience. Again, apologizes for my unfortunate typo in my last post.
Current Mains:
151 Proof - Fire/Fire Tank (50) - Triumph
Celestial Hammer - TW/Elec Brute (50) - Triumph
Amphetami - Crab Spider (24) - Triumph
Global @TheDangerousNacho
No worries. I think in many ways we are agreeing. But I take philosophy classes so I can actually discuss stuff. Am I an expert on economcs? I wish, my wallet would be fatter. But discussing these things in game furthers my understanding, forces me to stretch the mental muscles. (Pray I don't pull one lol) Thanks to everyone for joining in the discussion. Also, it is my great hope that Devs look into the more interesting of these conversations from time to time. I hope we are an interesting barometer for the game.
The want it now aspect of the market has always allowed the potential for other players to reap rewards off of the less inclined to wait playerbase.
As an example 5 lotg's were selling for 100mil yesterday, one player brought all 5 and re-listed them for 200mil, impatient player turns up and wants it and ends up coughing up the 200mil, should he feel ripped off?.
Well now as the paragon store offers an alternative method to purchase the enhancement he wants, he has a choice, does he get ripped off by the player or NcSoft.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt