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Before I start handing out recommendations, are there any primaries you DON'T want?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
m leaning heavily towards a Scrapper for my next project. I tend to prefer melee types, although I was a redside brute for over 3 years. I run a lot of ss/invul and ss/will and dark/invul. My current project is soloing all content Blueside, and I am doing well on it, so I am looking at my next project.
I plan on getting all badges 99%? as fast as possible. I have taken a hard look at my play preferences, and I think Scrapper is the smart way to go. Most of my missions during my solo all content projects (I have done it a few times redside, this is my first blueside) involve stealthing with short fights over a glowie or for the end boss fight. I also plan to Incarnate the heck outta the guy (will need to for the incaranate content badges anyways) My thinking is at level 50 a Scrapper is the best base for a character, especially when I plan to solo arcs a lot. For my secondary I have no doubt I want Willpower. It gives me the energy I need to fuel my Patron attack power chain. I love Invulnerability, but if I went with that I would feel the need to pair it with Dark to fill the End hole problem. With Willpower I lose some toughness but gain a huge amount of End power, and my health is on a non clicky maintenance, so I can use my time spamming attacks better. I will be trying to Softcap the armor as much as possible. Already have a +3 Glad for it, and will be buying the tuned Kin from the Paragon Market. But with all that said, what primary? I want something where the Build Up is useful for my Patron Powers and Incarnate Powers. I'm wondering if I'm looking at Dark anyways lol? |
I tend to dislike weapons, redraw. All things being equal I would avoid those. I want a "super" feel and weapons just do not do it for me. Also, I prefer a build up power that easily transfers into a Patron Pool/Incarnate attack chain. A lot of the stuff like StJ, KM, and TW are navel gazing.
What do you mean by Navel gazing? o.O
Scrappers aren't like Brutes when it comes to ranged attacks in the epics. With Scrappers you get no Gloom. :/
My suggestion however is Street Justice. Build Up isn't the 100% like the others, but it does give that 3 Combo Points!
Also, while you're looking at WP, I might suggest trying out SD which is better on Scrappers than the Brutes you're used to.
Sounds like you have the ability to get IOs quickly enough, so END concerns should be taken care of early on (level 20 Miracle, lvl 21 Performance Shifter Proc)
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I'll second the /SD recommendation from BrandX. If you want a super feel without weapons, well... that leaves what I call the "elemental" sets (Dark, Electric, Fire Melee), beat-em-ups (Street Justice, Martial Arts), Spines or Kinetic Melee. Spines may count as a 'weapon' to you, I'm not sure, so take that into consideration.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
What do you mean by Navel gazing? o.O
Scrappers aren't like Brutes when it comes to ranged attacks in the epics. With Scrappers you get no Gloom. :/ My suggestion however is Street Justice. Build Up isn't the 100% like the others, but it does give that 3 Combo Points! Also, while you're looking at WP, I might suggest trying out SD which is better on Scrappers than the Brutes you're used to. Sounds like you have the ability to get IOs quickly enough, so END concerns should be taken care of early on (level 20 Miracle, lvl 21 Performance Shifter Proc) |
Also, you can't use Spines with Shield, sadly.
Ah, yeah navel gazing. sorry for the confusion. By that I meant a build up that looks back at itself. Like StJ, TW, KM, all of their BU are very much for their own primary attacks. I would prefer a BU like DM that enhances anything, including Patron Pools.
And thx for the heads up on Patron pools, I'll look at those RQ.
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I replied in your other thread as well:|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Ah, yeah navel gazing. sorry for the confusion. By that I meant a build up that looks back at itself. Like StJ, TW, KM, all of their BU are very much for their own primary attacks. I would prefer a BU like DM that enhances anything, including Patron Pools.
And thx for the heads up on Patron pools, I'll look at those RQ. |
Elec/elec scrapper.
Trust me.A very different play experience, and WELL worth it.
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This is one I could never do, I'll fully admit. The lack of a taunt aura on Scrapper /Elec would give me apoplectic fits of rage, heh. I can't stand runners.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
I replied in your other thread as well:
Elec/elec scrapper. Trust me.A very different play experience, and WELL worth it. |
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Ummm...the +dmg they give still help out patron pool attacks tho. For Street Justice, it just means you'll likely want to use a finish power first then the blasts, or the blasts if you can be quick about it.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Ah, yeah navel gazing. sorry for the confusion. By that I meant a build up that looks back at itself. Like StJ, TW, KM, all of their BU are very much for their own primary attacks. I would prefer a BU like DM that enhances anything, including Patron Pools.
And thx for the heads up on Patron pools, I'll look at those RQ. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I can and have done it, but yes, you notice that lack of taunt aura when you really really want it!
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Originally Posted by Kazz
This is one I could never do, I'll fully admit. The lack of a taunt aura on Scrapper /Elec would give me apoplectic fits of rage, heh. I can't stand runners.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Im rolling a Stj/WP now and it feels great. Do not worry about the specific Build Up - Hitting Combat Readiness - Spinning Strike - 3 builders - other finisher just obliterates any spawn. Heck, the initial Spinning Strike will kill any minion on a crit, and im at level 29 with only 3 slots on each attack.
Also the set has some goodies: Does not need recharge, most attacks do "something" for you other than damage (knockdow, -res, -def), specially the aoe knockdown which buys you some time for the regen to kick.
Have a look a few threads below for my build and discussion about the combo
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Me either(oh i hate runners), but the beauty of the elec/elec with Lightning Rod synched to Build Up is that they rarely have the opportunity to take more than a step or two. |
Originally Posted by Kazz
This is one I could never do, I'll fully admit. The lack of a taunt aura on Scrapper /Elec would give me apoplectic fits of rage, heh. I can't stand runners.
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Add in the massive knockdown of LR and Thunderstrike and I find it to rarely if ever be an issue.Pulse damage toons, specifically, pet-damage-based telescrappers, are enormous fun and very different ways to play. The ultimate example (the elec/sd scrapper with spring attack) is a MONSTER, but that's a pretty extreme build and in opinion less fun than simply timing LR to BU.
I'm pretty seriously considering this Elec/Elec Mauk2. I have some questions. I tend to like fly for ease of getting around (It's a gonna be a big project) and Elec armor loses Immob/Knockback protection in air. Any thoughts? I am assuming you are running SS, and that is probably the way I will go as well. (It would certainly make those endless trips across IP better) And then just stealth when jetpacking otherwise and hope for the best? Also, I have never run Elec. I like the Damage Aura, I rarely get those. But 4 toggles and one is a damage aura. You say no End issues, for real? A lot of my difficult content will be pre 34, pre power sink. also, as a avid DM player I am unsure if I want to use a PbAoE End rec power as the heart of my End Mgt. Or are there hidden things in the Elec/Elec build I am missing? Do those little End drains I see actually add up to something significant? 20' radius on Lightning Rod. emote whistle.
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You alreadymentioned having IOs set aside for this new project, that alone should take care of a lot of end concerns.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I'm pretty seriously considering this Elec/Elec Mauk2. I have some questions. I tend to like fly for ease of getting around (It's a gonna be a big project) and Elec armor loses Immob/Knockback protection in air. Any thoughts? I am assuming you are running SS, and that is probably the way I will go as well. (It would certainly make those endless trips across IP better) And then just stealth when jetpacking otherwise and hope for the best? Also, I have never run Elec. I like the Damage Aura, I rarely get those. But 4 toggles and one is a damage aura. You say no End issues, for real? A lot of my difficult content will be pre 34, pre power sink. also, as a avid DM player I am unsure if I want to use a PbAoE End rec power as the heart of my End Mgt. Or are there hidden things in the Elec/Elec build I am missing? Do those little End drains I see actually add up to something significant? 20' radius on Lightning Rod. emote whistle.
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You can take Fly and be just fine, you just don't want to be a hover scrapper. But as a travel power, Fly is perfectly fine.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yeah, I do not play hover melee ever. But I will be using fly a lot to stealth stuff. Its my favorite travel power. But I see the mez prot is separate in Elec, so mostly should be fine.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
You alreadymentioned having IOs set aside for this new project, that alone should take care of a lot of end concerns.
You can take Fly and be just fine, you just don't want to be a hover scrapper. But as a travel power, Fly is perfectly fine. |
As far as I/Os, with 0 defense in Elec it looks like it will be a big hill to get to softcap. I doubt I will have extras to throw at trying spectacular shifts in End Mgt except a Perf Sh +End. In fact the more i seriously consider this project the more I am looking at Elec Armor as a problem and not a solution. Can this stuff even be softcapped?
To give an idea, right now I am on a 29 Brute who is soling all Blueside. Mostly I stealth, grab glowies, rescue hostages, kill all, yada yada. Sometimes I have to (like last night) rescue 8 hostages, 4 glowies. Well, ya miss one, ya know. The easiest way then is to slowly walk past each group and find the guy. On my brute I am literally ignoring all mobs. I do not hit a heal, I do not hit an attack, I just ignore them. I stealthed it orig so I wouldnt have to deal with a crowd, ya se. Not because the crowd could hurt me. I want that same ability from a Scrapper, (or nearly), with a crap ton more upfront damage. I can manage some trade off, i know a Willpower Scrapper is never gonna be as tough as a Invul Brute. But I do not want something that will fold like a taco when the map goes nutz. I have never run Elec Armor, so I am unsure what that runs like.
I'm trying to figure out why you said you need dark as invul for the end hole. Do you mean that inv needs end recovery tool? It's never struck me as end heavy set. It's certainly not dark.
If by that you mean you hate end drain then electric and dark both have some drain protect.
I think its fairly obvious but willpower is probably the easiest mixed set to softcap, the other resist sets I would settle for 32.5 and just eat a purple.
Of course if you are soloing all these missions on one player I don't really see why that would be important.
I think no matter what you're going to find a villain group or type that is annoying for you. I think it's just a matter of deciding what you want to be a pain and what not.
Anyway in terms of build up i think fire wins that category but you won't softcap. But my moderately io'ed fire/fire tank feels very powerful at 0x8. Or just roll a granite brute, haha.
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Well, you have to build up the damage with KM attacks for Power Siphon, but the buffs works with anything don't they? And on Build Momemntum, while it certainly grants you momentum doesn't it also applies a damage buff that does work with your other powers?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I tend to dislike weapons, redraw. All things being equal I would avoid those. I want a "super" feel and weapons just do not do it for me. Also, I prefer a build up power that easily transfers into a Patron Pool/Incarnate attack chain. A lot of the stuff like StJ, KM, and TW are navel gazing.
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Under construction
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Or I can go Elec/Energy scrapper, as I have, and have easily-softcapped defenses, the same heal and end management as Elec. The only thing I'm missing is the damage aura, but I get a taunt aura instead plus one that grants recharge when saturated, to bring all my AoEs back up even faster.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Me either(oh i hate runners), but the beauty of the elec/elec with Lightning Rod synched to Build Up is that they rarely have the opportunity to take more than a step or two.
Add in the massive knockdown of LR and Thunderstrike and I find it to rarely if ever be an issue.Pulse damage toons, specifically, pet-damage-based telescrappers, are enormous fun and very different ways to play. The ultimate example (the elec/sd scrapper with spring attack) is a MONSTER, but that's a pretty extreme build and in opinion less fun than simply timing LR to BU. |
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Originally Posted by slythetic
I'm trying to figure out why you said you need dark as invul for the end hole. Do you mean that inv needs end recovery tool? It's never struck me as end heavy set. It's certainly not dark.
If by that you mean you hate end drain then electric and dark both have some drain protect. I think its fairly obvious but willpower is probably the easiest mixed set to softcap, the other resist sets I would settle for 32.5 and just eat a purple. Of course if you are soloing all these missions on one player I don't really see why that would be important. I think no matter what you're going to find a villain group or type that is annoying for you. I think it's just a matter of deciding what you want to be a pain and what not. Anyway in terms of build up i think fire wins that category but you won't softcap. But my moderately io'ed fire/fire tank feels very powerful at 0x8. Or just roll a granite brute, haha. |
On it's own Invulnerability will tend to get really out of wind during long fights. Especially when coupled with fighting armors (very smart) Manuevers is a nice add when going for softcap. And i usually pair it with SS, and the rage crash is a real kick in the teeth every 2 min. I have a lot of experience running heavily armored Invul characters, and without serious help they are blue hungry monsters. My current is a SS/Invul at 29, with the 3 invul toggles, Fightings 2 toggles, and CJ. Without even footstomp yet (lvl32) I am steadily running out of end in long fights, and I already have 1 +End Proc. (My final build on that has 3) Yeah, invul is End nuetral to End heavy, depending on how you build it.
When you pair Dark Melee with Invul magic things happen. Then End problems all go away. You develop a small regular heal to supplement the big HP increasing heal only available every few minutes. The debuff in dark adds to the toughness of the build. Oh yeah, it locks up tight. Add any I/Os, literally any, and it always gets tougher. I built a DM/Invul Brute once for pure rech, and it was insanely tough.
But, I need to figure this project out now lol.
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Build for S/L Defense, let the other defense go where they go. That means making use of Kinetic Combat's for sure (and possibly the new Scrapper AT IOs).|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Yeah, I do not play hover melee ever. But I will be using fly a lot to stealth stuff. Its my favorite travel power. But I see the mez prot is separate in Elec, so mostly should be fine.
As far as I/Os, with 0 defense in Elec it looks like it will be a big hill to get to softcap. I doubt I will have extras to throw at trying spectacular shifts in End Mgt except a Perf Sh +End. In fact the more i seriously consider this project the more I am looking at Elec Armor as a problem and not a solution. Can this stuff even be softcapped? To give an idea, right now I am on a 29 Brute who is soling all Blueside. Mostly I stealth, grab glowies, rescue hostages, kill all, yada yada. Sometimes I have to (like last night) rescue 8 hostages, 4 glowies. Well, ya miss one, ya know. The easiest way then is to slowly walk past each group and find the guy. On my brute I am literally ignoring all mobs. I do not hit a heal, I do not hit an attack, I just ignore them. I stealthed it orig so I wouldnt have to deal with a crowd, ya se. Not because the crowd could hurt me. I want that same ability from a Scrapper, (or nearly), with a crap ton more upfront damage. I can manage some trade off, i know a Willpower Scrapper is never gonna be as tough as a Invul Brute. But I do not want something that will fold like a taco when the map goes nutz. I have never run Elec Armor, so I am unsure what that runs like. |
WP Scrapper may not be as tough as an INV Brute, but damn is it's not all that noticable 99% of the time.
Truthfully I prefere WP on Stalkers myself, but I love the clickie heal versus all toggles. *shrug* So with the new changes I'm quite HAPPY WHOOOT /o/ \o/ \o\ with Stalker WP, just need that awesomely fun Primary now >_>
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Absolutely not, I dislike SS. As a matter of fact, my Elec/elec uses Fly as my travel power, mainly because I wanted Air Superiority for an extra single-target attack.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I'm pretty seriously considering this Elec/Elec Mauk2. I have some questions. I tend to like fly for ease of getting around (It's a gonna be a big project) and Elec armor loses Immob/Knockback protection in air. Any thoughts? I am assuming you are running SS, and that is probably the way I will go as well. (It would certainly make those endless trips across IP better) And then just stealth when jetpacking otherwise and hope for the best?
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Elec Melee is one of the few Scrapper Primaries that actually benefits from more single target attacks, and the reliable knockdown of AS fits perfectly with the knockdown of elec melee. I mainly fight with combat jumping turned on and use a single KB IO to cover the times I happen to be airborne under fire. It works great.
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| Also, I have never run Elec. I like the Damage Aura, I rarely get those. |
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| But 4 toggles and one is a damage aura. You say no End issues, for real? |
Yes, Power Sink is the shining crown jewel, but you get a LOT of early end mitigation tools as well.Quote:
| A lot of my difficult content will be pre 34, pre power sink. |
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| also, as a avid DM player I am unsure if I want to use a PbAoE End rec power as the heart of my End Mgt. |
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| Or are there hidden things in the Elec/Elec build I am missing? |
And when you play to its strengths, it responds a dreamy smooth leveling experience, easily as smooth as bs/shield. Quote:
| Do those little End drains I see actually add up to something significant? |
If you slot for JUST end drain? Oh yes. But then your damage is poor.
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| 20' radius on Lightning Rod. emote whistle. |
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Power Sink will make you hate the recharge on Dark Consumption. My brute's Power Sink recharges in 22 seconds.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
When you pair Dark Melee with Invul magic things happen. Then End problems all go away. You develop a small regular heal to supplement the big HP increasing heal only available every few minutes. The debuff in dark adds to the toughness of the build. Oh yeah, it locks up tight. Add any I/Os, literally any, and it always gets tougher. I built a DM/Invul Brute once for pure rech, and it was insanely tough.
But, I need to figure this project out now lol. |
Also, you may not have the small, regular heal, but you'll have a bigger, beefier, slightly slower heal. My brute's Energize heals half of his health every 45-50 seconds.
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This is pretty much the reason Elec/Shield scrappers are popular (and good). If you chain a Built-Up Lightning Rod and Shield Charge together... not a lot really survives that. The only downside is that even beefed up to the nines on recharge both LR and SC take a good bit to come back (my elec's build puts his at around 35 seconds - not bad since it's 90 seconds to begin with, but still a hefty recharge).
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Build up, Lightning Rod, Thunder Strike, Chain, Thunder Strike again. You have to experience it working to understand the sheer manic grin-plastering awesome of it.
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m leaning heavily towards a Scrapper for my next project. I tend to prefer melee types, although I was a redside brute for over 3 years. I run a lot of ss/invul and ss/will and dark/invul. My current project is soloing all content Blueside, and I am doing well on it, so I am looking at my next project.
I plan on getting all badges 99%? as fast as possible. I have taken a hard look at my play preferences, and I think Scrapper is the smart way to go. Most of my missions during my solo all content projects (I have done it a few times redside, this is my first blueside) involve stealthing with short fights over a glowie or for the end boss fight. I also plan to Incarnate the heck outta the guy (will need to for the incaranate content badges anyways)
My thinking is at level 50 a Scrapper is the best base for a character, especially when I plan to solo arcs a lot. For my secondary I have no doubt I want Willpower. It gives me the energy I need to fuel my Patron attack power chain. I love Invulnerability, but if I went with that I would feel the need to pair it with Dark to fill the End hole problem. With Willpower I lose some toughness but gain a huge amount of End power, and my health is on a non clicky maintenance, so I can use my time spamming attacks better. I will be trying to Softcap the armor as much as possible. Already have a +3 Glad for it, and will be buying the tuned Kin from the Paragon Market.
But with all that said, what primary? I want something where the Build Up is useful for my Patron Powers and Incarnate Powers. I'm wondering if I'm looking at Dark anyways lol?