Who do we look up to now?


Angelxman81

 

Posted

So with States gone, who is a shining example of all that's good? Sure we have people who we can hope to emulate in terms of power and ability, but who is the moral centre now? Who is the heart of Paragon?

States was our Superman, the guiding force, the one that, no matter how bad things got, if you as a civilian saw him arrive on the scene, you knew you were going to be saved and everything would be ok. Now, of course, there are plenty of heroes who can save the day, but there is no one person to exemplify the ideals of the heroic side.

I understand the desire to kill him off. I do. I know that with the introduction of Incarnates, we are intended to really become the pre-eminent heroes of the CoH universe. But, frankly, the game still doesn't allow it the way it would for an NPC. No matter how many pedestrians walk by and say "Character X fought the Tsoo and saved that news reporter!", we will never have our characters go accept medals from the president, or even the mayor. We'll never hold press conferences. We'll never give speeches before dozens of the next generation of heroes. We'll never stand on a dais, sharing our wisdom to help someone level up.

No matter how you might feel about Statesman as a player, the everyday people of Paragon should sleep a little (or a lot) less comfortably now.

So given that we are supposed to become the biggest and the best of all heroes, who amoung us will stand up to be a Paragon of Virtue? And will the game really allow anyone to notice, beyond a few random pedestrian remarks?


Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Me.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Me.
They said Up, Bill, not Down Your domain is the other way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
They said Up, Bill, not Down Your domain is the other way.
Wait... what? You're telling me that eating babies isn't virtuous? Oh crud.

Serious answer to the OP, probably the rest of the Phalanx as a unit.

They'll all work harder to get over their own various flaws.

Or to look at it another way, Statesman was never the Pinnacle of Virtue you've described him as, and everyone in Paragon will just move on.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Me.

I beg to differ. God over here to look up to.


To the OP, I would imagine Positron is going to be filling those boots but thats just my guess.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Wait... what? You're telling me that eating babies isn't virtuous? Oh crud.
Well, if it's one of those won't-stop-crying ones sitting behind you on a plane, then maybe...

Anyhow, I am asking this from an in-game perspective and a game-mechanics one as well. The whole "should they kill him?" debate has been done a dozen times and better than I would do here, but if the reason for it was to make our characters stand out more and be the real heroes, how will that be accomplished in-game? Just fighting things isn't enough to really be a symbol for the heroic side.


Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor's Assassin View Post
To the OP, I would imagine Positron is going to be filling those boots but thats just my guess.
Yeah, have a horrible feeling that will be it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Yeah, have a horrible feeling that will be it.
Sadly it feels like the trend. Jack Emmert (am I still allowed to say that name here?) as Statesman and now Matt Miller as Positron. I would like for it to somehow creatively turn to our heroes as the ones we look up to but I don't know how that could be achieved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Nemesis, of course.

I kid.

The actual answer is: Blue Steel, and any other hero who agrees to submit to democracy and the rule of law by only using his or her powers against other human beings under the color of law, subject to the legal process and chain of command, any super who becomes a police officer or a soldier instead of a vigilante.

Statesman's heart was in the right place, and he loved America, but his support for the Citizen's Crime Fighting Act, and all of the horrific fallout of that catastrophic legal mistake, showed just how little he understood what America means. Replacing American government and the rule of law with an incarnate theocracy, where anyone with an FBSA rating above 40 is treated as a god, as a force of nature, instead of being treated the same way any other citizen would be treated who used force against another person, was a monstrous crime that deserves to be remembered right alongside all of the times that he saved the world.


 

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Why Flambeaux of course.


 

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I thought the point of all this was to remove the unreachable icon hero status from the game and give players the lead.


 

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Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
Well, if it's one of those won't-stop-crying ones sitting behind you on a plane, then maybe...

Anyhow, I am asking this from an in-game perspective and a game-mechanics one as well. The whole "should they kill him?" debate has been done a dozen times and better than I would do here, but if the reason for it was to make our characters stand out more and be the real heroes, how will that be accomplished in-game? Just fighting things isn't enough to really be a symbol for the heroic side.
I'm not entirely sure that there needs to be a symbol at all. Matter of fact, I don't think that there should be.

I ran the 5th SSA last night on +4/x8 w/bosses and got beat down multiple times. Did BAB come help out? No. Ms Liberty? Mynx? Nope. They sat in that bar while I hit the tunnels on my own.

Bunch of lazy, good for nothing drama queens. *I* got the job done. *I* put the fear of me into Wade. And I shouldn't be a symbol for anything but "dudes that like a good fight."


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Adolphe Menjou.

Seriously. Adolphe Menjou had the greatest mustache of the silent film era. How can you not admire the guy?


I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad View Post
Nemesis, of course.

I kid.

The actual answer is: Blue Steel, and any other hero who agrees to submit to democracy and the rule of law by only using his or her powers against other human beings under the color of law, subject to the legal process and chain of command, any super who becomes a police officer or a soldier instead of a vigilante.

Statesman's heart was in the right place, and he loved America, but his support for the Citizen's Crime Fighting Act, and all of the horrific fallout of that catastrophic legal mistake, showed just how little he understood what America means. Replacing American government and the rule of law with an incarnate theocracy, where anyone with an FBSA rating above 40 is treated as a god, as a force of nature, instead of being treated the same way any other citizen would be treated who used force against another person, was a monstrous crime that deserves to be remembered right alongside all of the times that he saved the world.
[Insert link to Paragon Wiki and 'Registered Heroes' for when the wiki is back up]

Registered Heroes are ALREADY bound by the same laws as Police officers. That's the entire point of Hero Licences.

I honestly cannot tell whether you are being serious or totally ignorant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

And I was going to volunteer for the job....

Oh, well, someone beat me to it. But, honestly, would you really want the job? No downtime, never five seconds to yourself. Everywhere you go it's "can I have your autograph" or "can you get my cat out of a tree" or "pardon me, but there's a giant meteor heading our way. could you do something about that please?"

More seriously.

Statesman will still be available as an icon. Assuming that he does not return to the main game, he will become part of the game lore alongside Galaxy Girl, Dauntless, Atlas, The Illustrated Woman, the Omega Team and the other fallen heroes that are already established parts of game lore.

There will probably be statues, and days of mourning, and, eventually, a "Statesman's lost briefcase" taskforce where we get to track down the one and only reliable map to the well of the furies complete with instructions and an estimate of how much dynamite he felt was needed to get rid of the thing once and for all.

I suppose you can look up to me if you like. I'd really prefer if you just throw money.


Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
I thought the point of all this was to remove the unreachable icon hero status from the game and give players the lead.
That's pretty much what I understood, yeah. But consider things for a moment from the PoV of a civilian in the game, or another comic universe. I have said to friends a couple of times that while Superman isn't my favourite character, if I was in trouble-- real, end-of-the-world trouble-- I would be much more relieved to see Superman than, say Green Arrow.

If the point of this is to let the players take the lead, how exactly do we do that? Have us punch bigger things? I would expect more.


Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

By making sure the PC the hero in the story and not the NPCs temporary sidekick.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post

Or to look at it another way, Statesman was never the Pinnacle of Virtue you've described him as, and everyone in Paragon will just move on.
In a City of 1323232424 Heroes, the loss of one isn't that big a deal. There are plenty of other heroes to look up to. My heroes do it to fight the good fight, not to emulate Statesman.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
I thought the point of all this was to remove the unreachable icon hero status from the game and give players the lead.
And this says it all. We never needed anyone to "look up to" in the first place.


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Posted

I say they're setting it up for Recluse to have some sort of epiphany, see the error of his evil ways and take up the mantle of his fallen friend.

The upshot of this is, of course, that we will never get Statesman's cape.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
That's pretty much what I understood, yeah. But consider things for a moment from the PoV of a civilian in the game, or another comic universe. I have said to friends a couple of times that while Superman isn't my favourite character, if I was in trouble-- real, end-of-the-world trouble-- I would be much more relieved to see Superman than, say Green Arrow.

If the point of this is to let the players take the lead, how exactly do we do that? Have us punch bigger things? I would expect more.
The PC characters have already taken the lead. They've done save the world things countless times already since issue 1 of this game.


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Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
I'm not entirely sure that there needs to be a symbol at all. Matter of fact, I don't think that there should be.

I ran the 5th SSA last night on +4/x8 w/bosses and got beat down multiple times. Did BAB come help out? No. Ms Liberty? Mynx? Nope. They sat in that bar while I hit the tunnels on my own.

Bunch of lazy, good for nothing drama queens. *I* got the job done. *I* put the fear of me into Wade. And I shouldn't be a symbol for anything but "dudes that like a good fight."
Yeah, I get what you're saying and can agree, but I am just wondering about the in-game effect. Your own character is the #1 guy when you play, which is fine. when I first started playing all those years ago, my initial feeling toward Statesman was irritation that I would never be able to reach his (or any other signature character's) level. I have no problem with taking the lead, or anything. I just wonder if the people of Paragon will even notice, or if we'll have the option (for those who want it) to really fill his shoes (boots?) in a more substantial way than fighting, or roleplaying in our heads.


Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
Yeah, I get what you're saying and can agree, but I am just wondering about the in-game effect. Your own character is the #1 guy when you play, which is fine. when I first started playing all those years ago, my initial feeling toward Statesman was irritation that I would never be able to reach his (or any other signature character's) level. I have no problem with taking the lead, or anything. I just wonder if the people of Paragon will even notice, or if we'll have the option (for those who want it) to really fill his shoes (boots?) in a more substantial way than fighting, or roleplaying in our heads.
The people of paragon aren't saved on a daily basis from muggings and purse snatchings, COT rituals, attempted Lost conversions, organ harvesting, etc., by the Freedom Phalanx. They're saved by players like you and me. I think the day to day heroes have a more substantial impact on their lives.

/shrug


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Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
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Posted

Quote:
Who do we look up to now?
People taller than us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.