Plainguy: Thanks for giving us some perspective. There are some easy shortcuts ; you may be making crafting/marketeering harder than it is.
(also, you get one H/V M per part of the story you complete, the first time you complete it; also one H/V M per week for doing "a part" no matter which one. So you can pick up those other four HM's any time.)
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
As far as Arcanaville's discussion of "things that add inf to the game" [pure farm of some sort] vs. "things that subtract inf from the game, but make individuals richer" [PVP farming, pure marketing]- normally I approach things her way, but the data we have does not match that approach. We have rich people. I'd say the thing pouring the inf into the system, where these rich people can collect it and have pointless Prestige contests or whatever, is most likely to be
1) iTrials
2) AE farming
3) Goldfarming [may be the same farms]
Incarnate work probably generates HUGE amounts of inf, but I've only done two or three trials, and been too busy ducking and guessing to even pretend to watch my inf count.
One recent effect: many hardcore acheivers with farms and market booths may have left to, as someone put it in a channel, "Go play Sith Ewoks". There seems to be a relative shortage of people pulling profits out of the system lately.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
Speaking as a newly minted PVP farmer myself, I have to say, these guys 'generate' very little inf in the big picture. The kill rate and inf rewards are utter crap in this sort of farm.|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
PvP IO farmers: They get the recipe, and drop it on the market (as is or crafted) for big bucks. |
All this does is move inf from a source to a sink (my pocket, thank you.)
In the process, you destroy rather a lot of inf, likely more than you generate by a WIDE margin.Quote:
iTrialers: On many servers there are several folks that run those each day, all day  That's a pretty nice chunk of cash in itself, not to mention what they can do with Astrals as well. TF's (minus the astrals) are also pretty lucrative this way. |
Trials make a little inf, yes. Astrals/Empy's are a completely separate currency, which (as far as I know) has no arbitrage mechanism with inf. All these guys are doing is lowering demand/increasing supply of the shiny goodies via a different mechanism.
Quote:
|
AE'ers: During CEBR, I dabbled with it and simply traded my tix for rare salvage, to the tune of 600M (on *one* toon). While we know the Devs were unhappy about CEBR, AE ticket farming still remains a pretty lucrative approach. |
Quote:
|
Gold Farmers: We've conjectured about these guys here before. Maybe they're avid marketers, but the consensus seems to be that they're folks running a handful of missions over and over all day, and (presumably) selling their drops. |
The MARTy code is a valuable insight into exactly the massive scale of the RMT issue. Those limits are so sky high, nobody could possibly hit them, right? Well, then, why put them in at all?
I have personally seen an RMT farm a few times. The one I saw was eight controllers, 4 identical builds and four different identical builds. (4 fire/kins, 4 fire/force, all with the fire mastery epic.) I tinkered up some numbers on what that sort of team could do.... And it was sobering. For example, that team could aggro and attack 500+ mobs simultaneously. And the damage output would destroy that sort of mob in seconds. Every defense is capped and every attack is made at the capped limits of the game engine.
Work the math on that, inf-wise.
I'm a firm believer than the RMT'rs are the source of most of the inf in the game.
Just my thoughts, make of it what you will.
Quote:
As a quick add-on based on today's update, it looks like 30% of the respondants|
Originally Posted by Intrinsic
Would it be fair to assume that the most active players in CoH hold most of the wealth?
Would it be fair to assume that the forums represent a cross-section of the most active players? If so, then you might apply the Pareto principle to your data. Using 100k total active players, we would then say that the top 20K hold 80% of the total wealth. Extrapolating your data over 20k players yields about 364 trillion inf. Divide that by 80%, and you have 455 trillion total inf in the game. There are a lot of assumptions in that analysis which may not be accurate at all, but it's one other way to look at the data. |
control 88% of the reported wealth (in the Survey data).
If that trend held for the general population (all caveats understood), the
back-of-the-napkin calculation would come out to ~614 Trillion, again, a very
plausible number to me.
@mauk:
Interesting hypothesis. I don't think I'd rank RMT'ers that high, simply because
I think there are higher volumes of "normal players" that run AE, TFs/Trials,
and "accepted" farms than there are RMT-specific Farmers (ie. I think there
are a lot of folks who "farm" but relatively few who are RMT'ers).
Unfortunately, I can't think of any way to guage the numbers of those
various groups accurately. <shrug>
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Is that several million per minute, new inf entering the world, or several million per minute, "I rolled rare salvage and sold them to other people and several million entered my pocket" or some combination? I have NEVER been able to keep track of how farmers farm and how good they are.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Is that several million per minute, new inf entering the world, or several million per minute, "I rolled rare salvage and sold them to other people and several million entered my pocket" or some combination? I have NEVER been able to keep track of how farmers farm and how good they are.
|
The profit rate is still fairly high for ticket farming. I don't have an exact number for you, but 1,500 tickets in ~2 minutes spent on bronze class rolls (65 tickets each) is 22 recipes every 2 minutes. So yeah, if you do that for even an hour, chances are you're going to make pretty decent money. A lot of it obviously comes down to luck, but still.
Quote:
You are underestimating pvp farmers. TopDoc is vastly wealthy and he isnt the only pvp farmer by a long shot.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Speaking as a newly minted PVP farmer myself, I have to say, these guys 'generate' very little inf in the big picture. The kill rate and inf rewards are utter crap in this sort of farm.
All this does is move inf from a source to a sink (my pocket, thank you.) In the process, you destroy rather a lot of inf, likely more than you generate by a WIDE margin.Trials make a little inf, yes. Astrals/Empy's are a completely separate currency, which (as far as I know) has no arbitrage mechanism with inf. All these guys are doing is lowering demand/increasing supply of the shiny goodies via a different mechanism. NOW you're talking some serious inf. These guys roll in inf at rates of several millions per minute, and there are a lot, I mean A LOT, of people that run AE farms, or run 'farm style' normal content looking for purple drops. It's simple, it's fun, it's profitable. Tickets are, again, a separate currency with no exchange to inf, and so, just serves to increase supplies of shiny's. And here we have the crux of the problem. The MARTy code is a valuable insight into exactly the massive scale of the RMT issue. Those limits are so sky high, nobody could possibly hit them, right? Well, then, why put them in at all? I have personally seen an RMT farm a few times. The one I saw was eight controllers, 4 identical builds and four different identical builds. (4 fire/kins, 4 fire/force, all with the fire mastery epic.) I tinkered up some numbers on what that sort of team could do.... And it was sobering. For example, that team could aggro and attack 500+ mobs simultaneously. And the damage output would destroy that sort of mob in seconds. Every defense is capped and every attack is made at the capped limits of the game engine. Work the math on that, inf-wise. I'm a firm believer than the RMT'rs are the source of most of the inf in the game. Just my thoughts, make of it what you will. |
Also RMT may be a cause of influence inflation to be sure but they are a symptom of people's laziness and need for instant gratification not the cause. If no one wanted to buy, then you wouldnt have them as an issue.
I cant say for certain how long someone would stick around if they are the type to buy influence. Their interest is fleeting at best, so their foot print on the market would serve to drive up influence on desirables and then vanish while not necessarily venting all of their influence into the game.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Lohenien - what mauk2 was saying is PVP farming doesn't generate a lot of influence. PVP farmers get a lot of influence from other people who buy their stuff, yes, and end up very wealthy as a result ; but influence is mostly brought in the system out of thin air by defeating enemies and selling common recipes to vendors.
Fulmens - as I recall it, 3 million influence from defeats alone per minute was more or less the standard for highend farming before slots beyond alpha were added. Of course, AE was nerfed since then as well, people who farm tickets generally generate less influence (lower rep) and you'd want to add loading times and time spent rolling tickets to that. I'm guessing 1-1.5 million influence per minute is still a reasonable and conservative assumption.
Yeah, I was working on the 'where the inf enters the game' angle, nihilli.
I guess at 100 million an hour in actual inf generated, you could get to 400 trillion pretty quick. (10,000 runners x 400 hours each.) Good thing the market sucks some of it back. . . SOME.
I'm going to have to adjust my self-esteem down a little as far as what I'm personally doing to the inf supply, that's all.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Reading this thread shows me how much I suck at marketing.
I just figured out the 2 Hero/Villain merits reward for the story arc last week. So I am 5 stories arcs late to the show.
I have a small spot in the market where I can resell 1 IO for for 10 million. But I'm only selling on average 2 per week. My net after cost is 8 million. Not complaining as I made 200 million from it. My builds go for around 500 to 700 million with no purples.
I'm one of those guys that now saves his purple IOs in hopes I get lucky to get the missing IOs of the set.
There is just so much to know about the market its truly is more complex then creating a build or learning the game mechanics.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives