SS and more aoes
By
BigBlackAfrica,
Posted on: 2012-01-13 07:37 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Dude you don't want any dev looking at SS because it wont be to give it more aoe.
The next time the devs alter the stats of a power in super strength, expect big changes to foot stomp or rage. See psychic shockwave.
That said, yes, SS probably should be revamped so that its efficacy is distributed throughout the set rather than baked into three powers. I would never play a SS character with rage functioning as it does today, but if they nerfed it and nixed the crash I'd have to consider it.
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FootStomp isn't really unbalanced when you look at the power alone. It does a smidgeon more damage than TW's whirling smash (if you factor in the 85% chance of DoT) but WS is on a 14 sec recharge, FS has a 20 sec one. Spin has less radius but does a lot more damage and also, 14 sec recharge (Brutes).|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The next time the devs alter the stats of a power in super strength, expect big changes to foot stomp or rage. See psychic shockwave.
That said, yes, SS probably should be revamped so that its efficacy is distributed throughout the set rather than baked into three powers. I would never play a SS character with rage functioning as it does today, but if they nerfed it and nixed the crash I'd have to consider it. |
What makes it so good (in fact what makes the whole SS powerset great) is that with Rage you're basically in perma-build up mode.
Pretty much what they said, except for this:
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| I would never play a SS character with rage functioning as it does today, but if they nerfed it and nixed the crash I'd have to consider it. |
Honestly, I like SS how it is. If you want more AoE, look to your Epic or get Spring Attack. SA+FS is a great opening enemy-group-grinder. Toss a Judgement in atop that and it's just gravy.
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Its pretty much the reason I built my farming Brute as a Claws/Fire instead of SS was fear of a nerf to Foot Stomp and Rage.
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Honestly...if they nerfed SS after it being how it is for so long...I would probably quit the game.
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
Its pretty much the reason I built my farming Brute as a Claws/Fire instead of SS was fear of a nerf to Foot Stomp and Rage.
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I was about to say that.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Pretty much what they said, except for this:
Honestly, I like SS how it is. If you want more AoE, look to your Epic or get Spring Attack. SA+FS is a great opening enemy-group-grinder. Toss a Judgement in atop that and it's just gravy. |
Another idea is to make a SS/SD Brute or an SD/SS Tank. Shield Charge FTW!
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For one thing, Cottage Rule means SS is never getting another AoE attack, unless maybe they decide to add damage to Hand Clap. Even then, it'd be terrible for AoE unless they also removed the knockback.|
Originally Posted by hidbyflames
Does any one besides me think SS could get maybe one more aoe i know it has the greatest one in game but one more wouldnt hurt right?
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Moreover, as mentioned, SS is already pretty much the king of melee sets. If it ever gets looked at, it won't be "hey, this set needs more AoE." Best case, it would be "let's revamp this whole set so it has eight pretty good powers instead of three amazing powers and five terrible ones." Worst case, it would be "let's gut Rage and Footstomp and call it a day."
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
For one thing, Cottage Rule means SS is never getting another AoE attack, unless maybe they decide to add damage to Hand Clap. Even then, it'd be terrible for AoE unless they also removed the knockback.
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While that is true, Proliferations are able to avoid this issue. Of course SS getting proliferated has a whole slew of other problems. Though it might actually be easier to proliferate it to Stalkers first(Since Rage would probably get replaced with build up) then once that happened proliferate the Stalker version to Scrappers(again with build up instead of Rage) either way it's likely to be a lot of power tweaking. And of course that wouldn't address the issues Brutes and Taakers have with the set.
SS is staying where it belongs with Brutes and Tankers period. KM is a nice sub for scrappers etc..
In terms of the much talked about nerf to SS. I have played this game for five years. My first day in the forums 5 years ago, certain people were screaming for SS to be nerfed, not balanced based on supportable facts and numbers, but nerfed.
Since that time many things have changed in the game and many powers have be reviewed and changed more than once(Kheldians come to mind), yet not SS. There is a reason for this fact. Those looking beyond the call for nerfing see it and thank goodness the devs do too.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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What issues? My Brute has no issues with this set |
Originally Posted by DMystic
While that is true, Proliferations are able to avoid this issue. Of course SS getting proliferated has a whole slew of other problems. Though it might actually be easier to proliferate it to Stalkers first(Since Rage would probably get replaced with build up) then once that happened proliferate the Stalker version to Scrappers(again with build up instead of Rage) either way it's likely to be a lot of power tweaking. And of course that wouldn't address the issues Brutes and Taakers have with the set.
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I never saw any Tanker complaining about it either.
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The "issues" with the set have more to do with "SS wildly overperforms with extra attacks like Burn or Gloom, but is lackluster on its own", more than "people don't like this set".
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
What issues? My Brute has no issues with this set
I never saw any Tanker complaining about it either. |
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Ya know, the thought crossed my mind - when I was posting that, I was thinking about my Broot - he's permahasten, spiritual, ageless etc, and now that I'm bored with him he became an agricultural tool. Basically my farming tray is:|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
The "issues" with the set have more to do with "SS wildly overperforms with extra attacks like Burn or Gloom, but is lackluster on its own", more than "people don't like this set".
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1 - Footstomp
2 - Burn
3 - Ball Lightning
4 - Elec Fences
5 - Pyronic
6 7 8 - three 'convert to reds' macros
9 - convert to small purples
0 - delete wakies
So basically I use two powers from the set, Rage (bound to a key) and FS. Ok on normal gameplay I also used KO Blow and (not so often after I IO'ed him) Haymaker. Well ok sometimes Taunt, I tanked with him on a few ITFs and LGTFs.
This one was self-PL'ed but I do have a 35 on another server leved the regular way and boy, SS is a pain before 34 (only at 34 I could get FS to a decentish recharge on SOs). And despite the fact I can Tank with my IO'ed SS/Fire because he kills everything so fast and has tons of recharge for healing flames and stuffs, I have no desire to play him outside of farming because I find him boring even being the most ZOMGDMG toon I have.
I genuinely and strongly dislike the set for that reason. Boring and overpowered don't offset each other, both of them are bad.
If I had my way you could keep foot stomp how it is, maybe reduce the KD chance. Scrap rage and go back to the drawing board on the set's central buff mechanic. I wouldn't want it to be a copy of street justice or titan weapons, but street justice and titan weapons are excellent examples of the new dev strategy of allowing sets to be a bit overpowered but in a way that they internalize and that forces players to consider tradeoffs. There is nothing to consider with SS: take rage, KO blow, FS, and punch as a mule and then supplement with pool powers. Never, ever exemplar below 30. Character complete.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
In terms of the much talked about nerf to SS. I have played this game for five years. My first day in the forums 5 years ago, certain people were screaming for SS to be nerfed, not balanced based on supportable facts and numbers, but nerfed. Since that time many things have changed in the game and many powers have be reviewed and changed more than once(Kheldians come to mind), yet not SS. There is a reason for this fact. Those looking beyond the call for nerfing see it and thank goodness the devs do too.
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Like the Hami-O exploit that was never going to be fixed?
Check the patch notes for Issue 22.
And yes, quite frankly, Super Strength needs to be reviewed, for the same reasons that Psi Assault was.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Like the Hami-O exploit that was never going to be fixed?
Check the patch notes for Issue 22. And yes, quite frankly, Super Strength needs to be reviewed, for the same reasons that Psi Assault was. |
Shh. They ruined AE, they ruined my HamiOs, my Peacebringer was broken before I got here.... Please someone hide this thread before they decide to ruin Super Strength too.
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There's an old, old guide out there, dating all the way to back when inventions were just released, teaching people how to get perma-hasten. The very first response was Zombie Man claiming this was broken and would soon be nerfed. Such claims are nothing new. The number of cases where they have been proven correct can be counted on the fingers of one hand (BotZ and Psi assault come to mind).|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Like the Hami-O exploit that was never going to be fixed?
Check the patch notes for Issue 22. And yes, quite frankly, Super Strength needs to be reviewed, for the same reasons that Psi Assault was. |
The Hami-O exploit was different because the devs have said from the start that it was an exploit, like various AE farms.
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The HO exploit is not the power set SS and the patch notes in I22 have nothing to do with SS. I'll believe it needs to be reviewed again when a red letter says so. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Like the Hami-O exploit that was never going to be fixed?
Check the patch notes for Issue 22. And yes, quite frankly, Super Strength needs to be reviewed, for the same reasons that Psi Assault was. |
Certain people have been calling for SS to be nerfed for the entire five years I have been here. In terms of reviewed, it was and they found that they could not come up with a better way to deal with the set and left it alone. Wise decision.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
During Castle's administration as power person, there was a certain amount of currency he accumulated determining what he could get away with changing. Change has to be slow and steady, and not revolutionary; there are people now who are still butthurt about Instant Healing's change, and people here who are still butthurt about Energy Transfer's change. The nature of change in a game like this is different from WoW's; we strive to keep things steady and stable as long as possible, instead of getting players used to the idea of a steady churn of changing and rebalancing. Cloak of Fear was a mag 3 on brutes for four years, which is flat-out nuts.
In practical terms, what I'm saying is, just because something should be changed does not mean the devs have the means to change it right now. The creation of Titan Weapons implies to me that they're happy with where SS is right now, but I wouldn't follow that implication off a cliff.
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Though they have mucked with the rage crash a bit over the last few years.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The HO exploit is not the power set SS and the patch notes in I22 have nothing to do with SS. I'll believe it needs to be reviewed again when a red letter says so.
Certain people have been calling for SS to be nerfed for the entire five years I have been here. In terms of reviewed, it was and they found that they could not come up with a better way to deal with the set and left it alone. Wise decision. |
As I recall, the initial crash was it left you disoriented....except with your mez protection running it didn't
Then they made it so it crashed your entire endurance (though I don't believe this made it to live).
Then the crash was 'only affecting self', so you couldn't do damage..or debuff or in the case of /elec use your tier 9. Of course there's also the def debuff and the 25% end crash (and double stacking rage took care of the def debuff)
The last crash adjustment was actually an un nerf as it simply applies a -1000% damage debuff. Which allows you to hit power sink, or melt armor or your tier 9....or use your vet attacks. Of course, there's also the def debuff and the end crash.
Suffice it to say, I do think there will be some type of adjustment 'eventually', though I hope its more like the adjustment dominators got(take damage boost from domination and add it to their sets) and not what Energy Transfer was given (hideous animation, stun mag reduction without anything to compensate for it).
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Fighting to make every reality, a better reality.
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Yes, I remember those variations that ever made it live and obviously the changes made that have. They can revise a set more than once Kheldians are proof of that, it is just usually in conjunction with a "need", that after them looking at SS several times is just not there.
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Originally Posted by Larcen3
Though they have mucked with the rage crash a bit over the last few years.
As I recall, the initial crash was it left you disoriented....except with your mez protection running it didn't Then they made it so it crashed your entire endurance (though I don't believe this made it to live). Then the crash was 'only affecting self', so you couldn't do damage..or debuff or in the case of /elec use your tier 9. Of course there's also the def debuff and the 25% end crash (and double stacking rage took care of the def debuff) The last crash adjustment was actually an un nerf as it simply applies a -1000% damage debuff. Which allows you to hit power sink, or melt armor or your tier 9....or use your vet attacks. Of course, there's also the def debuff and the end crash. Suffice it to say, I do think there will be some type of adjustment 'eventually', though I hope its more like the adjustment dominators got(take damage boost from domination and add it to their sets) and not what Energy Transfer was given (hideous animation, stun mag reduction without anything to compensate for it). |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I've been playing SS since launch. My main tank and namesake was Inv/SS until I rerolled after i13 to be WP/SS. I also have 3 SS brutes and am completely satisfied with the set as is. Sure Jab is lame and Punch isn't much better, but personally I love how skippable Jab/Punch, Handclap, and Hurl are because that frees up some power picks to fit in the Fighting pool and stuff like Spring Attack to offset limited AoE.
I seriously doubt that if the Devs revisit SS again, they will be adding more AoE. If they nerf FS and Rage, I'll get my torch and pitchfork.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Honestly...if they nerfed SS after it being how it is for so long...I would probably quit the game.
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We're not so lucky.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
^___This___^
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Does any one besides me think SS could get maybe one more aoe i know it has the greatest one in game but one more wouldnt hurt right?