How to Get More Players


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
Yes they cut you off at level 20 then you have to pay, so it's not free to play.
And this game cuts non subscribers off from end game content as well as a lot of other things so we aren't free to play either.


Edit: BTW you do realize that that game is advertising that they are Free to Play. So your opinion isn't relevant.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiviste View Post


Win!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
Better?
The reason I am having a "hissy fit" is as I explained CoX is dieing, I am willing to do what ever it takes to keep it. I love this game, but I don't think we have long to play.
First off:

CoH is NOT dying. Our population has been holding steady for quite a long time. So we don't have 10 million people playing. So what? Not having 10 million people is not an indication that the game is dying. In fact, that is an aberration, not what MMOs should be measured against. Before the 10 million subscriber game came out, 100,000 players was considered wildly successful, and is still a good benchmark. We have been over that mark pretty consistently for 7 years now. And there is no signs of it dropping off anytime soon.

Second: Consolidating servers WILL NOT SAVE A GAME IN TROUBLE. It pisses off the current players, and new players will stay away from it because they take it as a sign that the game is on it's way out.

Seriously, stop and think about it. If YOU were considering trying out a game and you found out that game just shut down half of its servers, would you still play it? The overwhelming majority of gamers would answer "No, I don't want to get involved in a game and start enjoying it, only to have the game shut down right when I start having fun"

There is a reason you are getting these responses in your thread. It is, quite simply because shutting down servers in order to force people to clump together is bad for the game.

Do a search of games who shut down some of their servers, and tell us how many of them still exist. I'll be very surprised if you come up with more than a couple that shut down some of their servers and didn't shut down the rest of them shortly thereafter.

Your entire mindset here is getting very tiresome. The whole time you have been telling us that since we're playing an MMO, we HAVE to want hundreds of people around us at all times. That is so far from the truth it would be a long distance charge to CALL the truth.

The simplest explanation for this whole thread is: You're just flat out wrong and can't accept it.

You want more players around you? Move your damn toons to Freedom and stop trying to get MY server shut down because you think I should have to play how YOU want me to.

Aett has a good point: You are insisting that everyone must play how you do, and WE'RE narrow-minded. Does the term "irony" mean anything to you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Do a search of games who shut down some of their servers, and tell us how many of them still exist. I'll be very surprised if you come up with more than a couple that shut down some of their servers and didn't shut down the rest of them shortly thereafter.
Only still existing one I can think of is Aion. I'm sure others have shut down hardware that have the "one big server" setup. But again, Aion's heavily PVP, so they need that concentration of players.


Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
Doctor Roswell said,
"Names. So if you merge servers, what happens if there's a player on both with the same name? Who gets it? The player who's already on that server?"
--The ones being moved get the name change. The names I like that I have come up with over the years of game play I made characters on the other servers to keep others from using the name. I never use them, they are all level 1 or 2, they are just to park my character names on other servers. I will delete them for the transfer. I seriously doubt that I am the only one that has done that.
What if I don't *WANT* to change my name? What if the name being changed by a collision is my main?

Quote:
Doctor Roswell said,
"Super groups. Do they just split up? Are they all forced to move to the same server, even if they don't agree on which one they want to move to? What happens to their prestige? Their base? Their name, if it's taken on the new server?"
--Yes they split up but they keep their prestige and base. I know for a fact that many SG/VG have groups with the same name on other servers but I think there needs to be a 1 time game wide SG/VG rename. As far as forcing players to move to the same, no they can go to what ever server they want to they isn't being shut down.
If they split up, how the hell do they "keep" the prestige? Prestige is assigned to the SG. Not the player. It's simply tracked by-player while they're in that SG. This is why you lose your prestige count when you drop and rejoin an SG.

Quote:
Doctor Roswell said,
"Which server? Do you just consolidate the two with the lowest populations, thus not giving anybody a choice where they move to? Do you give everyone a server transfer for all their characters and say, "be moved out by Friday or you're getting deleted"? If you do, you'll likely end up with most people jumping ship to a place like Freedom or Virtue, in no small part because they'll see the writing on the wall and not want to have to go through all this again six months later if the devs decide to shut down another "dead" (but not really) server. Which will really just give the high-population servers even higher populations, while the lower-populations ones will stay low, and then someone would be complaining about how they need to shut down Guardian or Champion or Triumph or whatever -- and this part is important -- "like they did with Pinnacle." See, it would create a precedent for shutting down low-population servers, which would create a mass exodus from those servers, which would just make future server shutdowns more likely. It's what called a "death spiral."
--You don't consolidate servers you shut down 3 of the least active servers and give everyone on those servers free character transfers and they pick what server they want to move to. Give them 6 months to do it, any characters that belong to inactive players are sent to a random sever but with the character transfer so if they become active again they can move to what ever server they want to. Send a mass e-mail to everyone to tell them.
You've missed the question he asked you. Some people have 30+ characters on some servers. What happens to them? And there are some people who have MULTIPLE servers full. How do THEY go about transferring?

And now your argument has mutated from "Kill this server" to "Kill a bunch of servers".

Sorry but **** NO!

Quote:
Doctor Roswell said,
"What about everyone else? I don't play on Pinnacle, but if the devs are just giving away free server transfers, I don't see why I should be penalized just for playing on a high-population server. Where's my free transfer? Or rather, where are my thirty-four free transfers, one for each character I have on Virtue? And my twelve for the characters I have on Exalted? And my six for Victory, and my three for Infinity?
Now, I don't really feel that way, but I promise you, there are people out there who would. And if even a tenth of the ones who'd threaten to quit paying in outrage over the "unfair treatment" they were getting actually did, you'd see a net drop in subscriptions, not a gain."
--No just the players that are losing there home. I think what everyone forgets even if there was 100 players on Pinnacle 24-7 they are scattered throughout the zones and in missions or SG/VG bases making the zones look like ghost towns. Shutting down 3 inactive servers will make it more then twice as likely to see other players. We'll never know how many people left COX because the servers are inactive. I'm sure a lot will come back for the server shut downs. This will benefit all players, the servers we move to will receive active veteran players with a much greater change to welcome and help the new players.
Actually if you kill 3 servers you're 3x more likely to lose a significant portion of your subscriber base. The community has a modicum of faith in Paragon that their choice of toons and servers will not be usurped from them by server shutdowns.

If you (personally) dislike the population levels of the server you're on when you're on, nothing is stopping you from jumping ship to Freedom.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
City of Heroes/Villains is advertised as a MMO - massively multiplayer online game, not a MSO - massively someplayer online game.
Not this tired old canard again.

Massively Multiplayer simply means you have multiple people in a shared environment.

It in no way stipulates teaming or even interaction. Nor does it specify regular population levels.

Please try a real argument.

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If I was a new player logging onto CoV for the very first time today and only seeing 2 or 3 players in Mercy Island I would say, " I'm not going to play this game it's dead, I'm not going to waste my time checking out other servers because they are probably a inactive to."
Fact: CoV has pretty much always been less populous than the CoH side. Combined with the alignment system, and we now have a gutting of players from redside into blue.

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We have to think about the future of CoX, there are people that play just or the game, but there are a lot more that play for the social aspect of the game.
We ARE thinking about the future of the game. Shutting down or merging servers is the fastest way I know of, short of simply turning the game off PERIOD, to make sure it doesn't have one.

Right now Paragon is pretty happy with subscribership and population levels on the servers. That's not to say that shutting a couple of them down wouldn't be more ECONOMICAL. But they're not at the point where it is even on their radar.

So why should they go tripping over a dollar to save a dime?

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Everyone that has responded is one including me, we call our servers home and take great offense when someone talks bad about our server.
Nobody's offended. That's what you don't understand.
We're merely trying to educate yet another underinformed player as to why server closures and merging are not going to give you the results you think they will.

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Every month a MMO game gets shuts down, when CoH/CoV starts losing money they will do the same, then we all will be screwed CoXless.
Wow. A cheap attempt at "the sky is falling" fear-mongering.
Every month some crappy MMO, somewhere, gets shut down.
Every month CoH keeps rolling along. Making money.
That's the big sticking point here. CoH is a nearly-8-year-old game that's STILL turning a profit.
Sure, it's not bringing in Planet of Conflictcraft levels of cash, but it's profitable.
Closing servers will cause a number of PAYING players to simply stop paying and leave. Hurting profits.
Closing servers will also send a message that the game is in trouble, causing others to leave. Hurting profits.
You don't mess with your bread and butter.


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In April CoH will be 8 years old and for the first time it is free to play. Why would a MMO with years of charging a monthly fee add a free to play? Because the Devs know the end is coming and they are trying make a buck to save the game.
Or the fact that this alternate revenue model will allow them greater cash influx, which will allow them to produce more stuff for the game.

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In my opinion shutting down 3 servers will save CoX. Unfortunately most of the vets are against changes, changes that I feel will save CoX.
Ah. Full of ourselves are we?

Vets aren't against "changes". They're against pointless server closures. So please refrain from trying to inflate this argument into something it isn't.

And YOU feel they'll save CoH. Others disagree. And, amongst those others, are the devs.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Archiviste View Post
Ok, to add something positive to this thread:

Re: How to Get More Players

Simple answer (which some of you mentioned earlier): Advertise more !

TV ads might be a bit over-budget for Paragon Studios, but what about

- banners on gaming blogs and websites ?

- ads in magazines and comic books (where I first heard of this game) ?
Heck, I'd LOVE to see flyers or polybags in comic shops for CoH.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Larger van.
Party Van?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
-- You think shutting down servers will give new players the impression that CoX is dieing but they will get the same thought when they log-in and see there are only 2 or 3 players in each zone. I understand how everyone feels about changes but I also know paying for a V.I.P. doesn't guarantee me anything.
As has been noted. You're playing red side. Red side is and has been chronically underpopulated for years now. And it got worse once side switching started. Now, with the ability to start anything but an SoA blue-side, players need never play red if they don't wish to. And a lot of them don't wish to.

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If CoX starts to lose money everyone is gone regardless of who you are. They will shut the game down, with out any warning. That's why I called everyone narrow-minded they can't see the inevitable future if things don't change soon.
IF it starts to lose money. Call and let us know when that happens.

Is the game going to shut down SOME DAY?

Sure.

Do I personally care if CoH shuts down in 2293? Not bloody likely!

Is it going to shut down any time in the foreseeable future?

Not according to Paragon it isn't.

And with the presence of games like Evercrack (coming up on its THIRTEENTH YEAR) still going strong, it argues that CoH could be around a while yet. Hell, it could be around longer than some of its players.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
If that was true then WoW would offer the same, but they don't they are pay to play.
Please don't use WoW as a median example in the industry. It's an overgrown mutant. Before it, games that brought in 100-200K subscribers and kept 2/3 of them were considered wildly successful.

That's like saying that "The Empire Strikes Back" was a crappy, underperforming SciFi movie because it didn't make as much as "Avatar".

Blizzard HAS gone to a hybrid model. They're raking in millions every year and have the cash to do pretty much anything with their current model.

NOBODY else in the industry can say that.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
Better?
The reason I am having a "hissy fit" is as I explained CoX is dieing, I am willing to do what ever it takes to keep it. I love this game, but I don't think we have long to play.
"dieing" huh?

No. CoH isn't dying.
Ask the devs.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
Yes they cut you off at level 20 then you have to pay, so it's not free to play.
By that metric, neither is CoH.

They cut you off at 50. No Incarnate content.
They also curette a good chunk of functionality from the game, nearly to the point where CoH may as well be a solo game.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech and the right to have my own opinion. Every post in this tread was my opinion of CoX. You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it. I allowed everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted. I simply posted my opinion, but honestly it's your game play the way you want to and I'll play the way I want to. If shutting down servers is a no then we won't have long to play CoX. The only bad thing I said was calling everyone narrow minded for not seeing the inevitable. I think how Pinnacle was a year ago when I left and how it is now. How will it be a year from now if things don't change? Maybe 10 - 20 players on-line, do the math. And again I only play on the Villain side of Pinnacle. All my searches are from the Search Button not the /whoall. The only time I use the /whoall is in PvP zones when I am looking for a hero to kill. Like I said Saturday night Eastern Time I'm going to go server hoping, that used to be the peek time for Pinnacle.


All on Pinnacle Server
Godless - level 50 Ninja/Dark MM
Hero Hater - level 29 Energy/Regen Stalker
Xtc - level 35 Energy/Elec Brute

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech and the right to have my own opinion. Every post in this tread was my opinion of CoX. You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it. I allowed everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted. I simply posted my opinion, but honestly it's your game play the way you want to and I'll play the way I want to. If shutting down servers is a no then we won't have long to play CoX. The only bad thing I said was calling everyone narrow minded for not seeing the inevitable. I think how Pinnacle was a year ago when I left and how it is now. How will it be a year from now if things don't change? Maybe 10 - 20 players on-line, do the math. And again I only play on the Villain side of Pinnacle. All my searches are from the Search Button not the /whoall. The only time I use the /whoall is in PvP zones when I am looking for a hero to kill. Like I said Saturday night Eastern Time I'm going to go server hoping, that used to be the peek time for Pinnacle.
You refuse to grow with the times, use the tools available to you, and branch out and experience the other half of the game. And have the audacity to claim you know best?

Look at me.
Look at your argument.
Look back at me.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech and the right to have my own opinion.
Congrats.

You do realize freedom of speech only means the government cannot keep you from criticizing it, protesting (peacefully,) etc, don't you? It has nothing whatsoever to do with what you can or cannot say on a privately owned forum (such as, oh, this one, owned by NCSoft, who can delete your post and ban you just because they feel like it, if they so choose,) nor does it make you immune from people presenting their own rebuttals - or mean everyone, or anyone for that matter, has to agree with you.

And nobody has said you can't have an opinion. They have shown you where there are major flaws in it, though.

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Every post in this tread was my opinion of CoX. You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it.
Disagreement is not attacking. And you posted some things as if they were facts, not opinions, and those were refuted. "1+1=87 4/7ths" is not an opinion.

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I allowed
.... not unless you own the message board, which you do not
Quote:
everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted.
Nobody "verbally assaulted" you. And any such actions are not controlled by you, but by the NCSoft moderation staff.

If you feel you have been "Verbally assaulted," find the post or posts and press the little button with the exclamation point in it, and give the details. That will send the information to the moderators so they can look at the post.

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If shutting down servers is a no then we won't have long to play CoX.
You have yet to make your case for this. You post a few anecdotes, others go and look and point out that your perception does not match up with reality.

You also have yet to show the littlest bit of understanding of how badly combining servers would affect people in a game that (note this part) tends to heavily encourage alts. There are people with hundreds of characters. But YOU want to merge servers for your OWN wants, instead of just moving your characters.

And we've heard "COX is dying" for years. Note it's still here.
Quote:
I think how Pinnacle was a year ago when I left and how it is now.
Not a huge difference, quite honestly. On the other hand, what's IN the game has changed a fair bit - people are working on Incarnate trials, for instance. The "end game" tends to encourage focusing on a few characters versus many. It's one of the issues I have with it.

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How will it be a year from now if things don't change?
Much like it is now.
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Maybe 10 - 20 players on-line, do the math.
And how many times has this been refuted just in this thread?
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The only time I use the /whoall is in PvP zones when I am looking for a hero to kill. Like I said Saturday night Eastern Time I'm going to go server hoping, that used to be the peek time for Pinnacle.
It used to be the time people would sneak a quick glance at Pinnacle?

Look, if you don't like it, feel free to move your characters. As a VIP, you get a free transfer each month, and can buy others if you want. Go somewhere that matches what you want.


Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

You know what's awesome? Facts are awesome. Let's have some facts.

First off, here is the (mostly) current Juggernaut's Club of MMORPGs, the ridiculously big dogs.

Note: All of these are absurd. WoW in particular has close to four times the subscriptions of any of its closest competitors. Aion is the new big huge thing. Runescape is massive. These games are all big deals to the entire industry, and in the case of WoW, to the entire world.

Here is the Big Boy's Club.

If you look at them, you will notice they fall into three categories.

1) Strong, healthy games that will not die for the foreseeable future. These include local heavyweights like LotRO and EVE, ancient and unkillable creatures like the EverQuests, and more recent products that are still currently healthy but may not stand the test of time, like Age of Conan.

2) Dying games. These ones all have one thing in common: Their peak was way higher than their current numbers and their descent has not been arrested. Warhammer Online started high but plummeted rapidly afterwards, and is now in its death throes. Whatever malady first afflicted Star Wars Galaxies in 2005 has finally killed it. Dark Ages of Camelot is suffering a similar slow demise.

3) Also, there's Rift. It's new.

The hallmark of games from the first category is that they have fairly stable server populations regardless of how big those populations are. Maintaining servers is actually super cheap (so much so that ArenaNet has made great profits off of Guild Wars using no subscription fees ever, which is why they aren't recorded on the charts), which means once the game has already been developed, there is no reason not to maintain the servers unless the subscription count drops to practically zero.

City of Heroes has that stable population of ~125,000 according to all available data. Now even if CoX profits are decreasing, so long as they level out at some point above about 25,000, Paragon will be fine. Overall, however, Paragon isn't acting like a studio facing decreasing profits. They're still churning out new content, they didn't jump on the F2P bandwagon until after bigger games with enough population padding to take risks had proved it was workable (most specifically, LotRO), and they're not making any sort of desperate money grabs like you usually see with companies about to go under. CoX remains the undisputed king of the super hero genre within the MMO industry (though dark horse challenger DCUO might unseat it eventually, and that actually could put CoX in hot water).

For the curious, there's also the charts for the Wannabes, most of which are already dead or half there, and the Never Stood A Chance category. Although Puzzle Pirates is on that last one and is actually doing fine, but you'll notice the data is five years out of date and that game's got graphics roughly on par with a flash game anyways.

Also, NCSoft is publicly traded which means we can actually download their earnings reports from their website. If you bother to download it, you'll note that CoX is pulling in about double the amount of money as Guild Wars in the past few quarters.* You may recall that Guild Wars is the game that's getting a sequel with awesome new bells and whistles which is hoping to unseat the other non-WoW industry leaders with its incredible new gaming paradigm. The one that's going toe-to-toe with Aion and The Old Republic. And Paragon is making twice the profits of those guys. This data came from November.

I think CoX is going to be fine.

*And also that holy crap NCSoft owns every platinum MMO except WoW, what shady MMO crime lord are they paying to get that kind of market dominance?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech
Another person ignorant of what Freedom of Speech means.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


Freedom of Speech applies to the government which has nothing to do with these forums. In fact talking about politics, religion, etc is against the rules of these forums and can get you banned if you persist in violating those rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
and the right to have my own opinion.
No one has told you that you don't have the right to post your opinion. However just as you have the right to post your opinion we have the right to point out that your opinion is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless View Post
You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it. I allowed everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted.
Oh cut the drama. No one has verbally assaulted you or attacked you. People playing the victim is a sure sign that they know they are losing an argument and can't refute anything that the other side has said.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael View Post

*And also that holy crap NCSoft owns every platinum MMO except WoW, what shady MMO crime lord are they paying to get that kind of market dominance?
I think they call it "Asia."

The way they count subs over there is... vastly different than the way they do here, as I recall. Something like over half of WOW is over there, Aion was over there for, what, a year before it came to NA? Lineage I and II are bigger over there, etc.

I'm not sure how (or even if) hybrid "subscription" models are going to be counted. It's a lot harder than counting pure subscription games, and just "income from the game" isn't a great way of doing it (did a few people buy a lot of points? Or is it a bunch of people buying a few?)


Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael View Post
You know what's awesome? Facts are awesome. Let's have some facts.

First off, here is the (mostly) current Juggernaut's Club of MMORPGs, the ridiculously big dogs.

Note: All of these are absurd. WoW in particular has close to four times the subscriptions of any of its closest competitors. Aion is the new big huge thing. Runescape is massive. These games are all big deals to the entire industry, and in the case of WoW, to the entire world.

Here is the Big Boy's Club.

If you look at them, you will notice they fall into three categories.

1) Strong, healthy games that will not die for the foreseeable future. These include local heavyweights like LotRO and EVE, ancient and unkillable creatures like the EverQuests, and more recent products that are still currently healthy but may not stand the test of time, like Age of Conan.

2) Dying games. These ones all have one thing in common: Their peak was way higher than their current numbers and their descent has not been arrested. Warhammer Online started high but plummeted rapidly afterwards, and is now in its death throes. Whatever malady first afflicted Star Wars Galaxies in 2005 has finally killed it. Dark Ages of Camelot is suffering a similar slow demise.

3) Also, there's Rift. It's new.

The hallmark of games from the first category is that they have fairly stable server populations regardless of how big those populations are. Maintaining servers is actually super cheap (so much so that ArenaNet has made great profits off of Guild Wars using no subscription fees ever, which is why they aren't recorded on the charts), which means once the game has already been developed, there is no reason not to maintain the servers unless the subscription count drops to practically zero.

City of Heroes has that stable population of ~125,000 according to all available data. Now even if CoX profits are decreasing, so long as they level out at some point above about 25,000, Paragon will be fine. Overall, however, Paragon isn't acting like a studio facing decreasing profits. They're still churning out new content, they didn't jump on the F2P bandwagon until after bigger games with enough population padding to take risks had proved it was workable (most specifically, LotRO), and they're not making any sort of desperate money grabs like you usually see with companies about to go under. CoX remains the undisputed king of the super hero genre within the MMO industry (though dark horse challenger DCUO might unseat it eventually, and that actually could put CoX in hot water).

For the curious, there's also the charts for the Wannabes, most of which are already dead or half there, and the Never Stood A Chance category. Although Puzzle Pirates is on that last one and is actually doing fine, but you'll notice the data is five years out of date and that game's got graphics roughly on par with a flash game anyways.

Also, NCSoft is publicly traded which means we can actually download their earnings reports from their website. If you bother to download it, you'll note that CoX is pulling in about double the amount of money as Guild Wars in the past few quarters.* You may recall that Guild Wars is the game that's getting a sequel with awesome new bells and whistles which is hoping to unseat the other non-WoW industry leaders with its incredible new gaming paradigm. The one that's going toe-to-toe with Aion and The Old Republic. And Paragon is making twice the profits of those guys. This data came from November.

I think CoX is going to be fine.

*And also that holy crap NCSoft owns every platinum MMO except WoW, what shady MMO crime lord are they paying to get that kind of market dominance?

Please don't confuse the issue with verifiable facts.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
City of Heroes/Villains is advertised as a MMO - massively multiplayer online game, not a MSO - massively someplayer online game. If I was a new player logging onto CoV for the very first time today and only seeing 2 or 3 players in Mercy Island I would say, " I'm not going to play this game it's dead, I'm not going to waste my time checking out other servers because they are probably a inactive to." We have to think about the future of CoX, there are people that play just or the game, but there are a lot more that play for the social aspect of the game. Everyone that has responded is one including me, we call our servers home and take great offense when someone talks bad about our server. Every month a MMO game gets shuts down, when CoH/CoV starts losing money they will do the same, then we all will be screwed CoXless. In April CoH will be 8 years old and for the first time it is free to play. Why would a MMO with years of charging a monthly fee add a free to play? Because the Devs know the end is coming and they are trying make a buck to save the game. In my opinion shutting down 3 servers will save CoX. Unfortunately most of the vets are against changes, changes that I feel will save CoX. Whether I have to pay for it or it's free I am moving off of Pinnacle, my home from day one, for my own personal game enjoyment. Me and my son share my account, he was sitting beside me when I logged back on after a year and did the player search and saw 23 players on-line. I turned to my son and said "Where in the hell did everyone go?", he shrugged his shoulders. I gave my son his own server on Freedom to play on. I think they need to shut down 3 servers to save CoX, the end is near but most players are to narrow minded to see that.
Sorry but your forum handle sums you up nicely. YOu lack FAITH in everything it seems to me. COX has mine more so then any other MMO out there, and the company has imo never done me wrong. cryptic may have failed us but we carry on. NC soft has my props. I love GW another old mmo going strong, with company support planned even after they launch gw2 which they are in no way rushing becuase of thier stable fan base which gives them confidence in consumers wanting thier product.

COX going hybrid model imo wasnt an act of desperation but a true gift to all mmo players out there who hadnt yet tried cox, as well as to those who love it but due to the hard times of our worlds economy could no longer affored to sub. I know many old friends who came back as thier accounts have enough vet badges to make ftp life pretty fun still.

Unlike say DDO, or CO, or DCUO, etc etc which all went hybrid out of pure desperation. Hell I actually started to think jack still has his babies back and sabatoged co from the inside because no way the man who made cox could screw up that bad on accident.

I dont know the current word, but back in the day the rumor was each dot on a server represented 1-10,000 players. light load meant 10k or under, med meant upwards of 20, and red dot/locked out meant it hit the 30k cap.

That always felt about right with cox subs usually spoken of being in the 100-200k range. the main 2 which includes my home(virtue forever) on active times do feel like there are 30k people spread out through the world making it feel very alive and active.

Interestingly enough though for the longest time I kept all my red siders on guardian. I still check in there time to time, and still feel its red side is surprisingly active compared to many, especially considering its a typical light load server.

OP if you want alot of red siders your likely to never find it to be honest. red side is dead side, common phrase even on virtue. and my oldest toon I converted to rogue status as he is def an original villain before we had them concept character.

however I can also assure you others are right, server mergers are always more bad then any good they could bring. AOC lost any chance of me even being a casual ftp who might drop a 10 spot now and then because of server mergers killing off my launch server.

DDO lost any real chance at me ever treating them as more then a time killer because of closing down fernia server.

Servers closing equals kill the sg, they do not transfer these things between servers ever. SG bases would be lost, some people have spent YEARS developing these personal lairs for themselves and many other fellow players.

Your a recent returnee then spend some time finding friends, become a rogue so you can play both sides. RED SIDE IS DEAD SIDE DEAL WITH IT! Most players like being anti heroes or dark heroes rather then evil monsters in a comic book world.

The populations on any server are not so low that I have any doubt I could drop my main 50 in any one, and build a tf of my random choosing within a timely manner. that to me is great mmo population.

And also remember one of COXs great strengths is its SOLO friendly nature. MANY of us enjoy spending as much if not most of our time doing our own batman/super man thing rather then trying to be part of the avengers.


 

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech and the right to have my own opinion. Every post in this tread was my opinion of CoX. You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it. I allowed everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted. I simply posted my opinion, but honestly it's your game play the way you want to and I'll play the way I want to. If shutting down servers is a no then we won't have long to play CoX. The only bad thing I said was calling everyone narrow minded for not seeing the inevitable. I think how Pinnacle was a year ago when I left and how it is now. How will it be a year from now if things don't change? Maybe 10 - 20 players on-line, do the math. And again I only play on the Villain side of Pinnacle. All my searches are from the Search Button not the /whoall. The only time I use the /whoall is in PvP zones when I am looking for a hero to kill. Like I said Saturday night Eastern Time I'm going to go server hoping, that used to be the peek time for Pinnacle.
You are correct in that you are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to bash your elitist entitled opinion over everyone else's head just because they do not agree with you.

You are being narrow minded in the same way you are referring to everyone else in this thread. You come back after a year hiatus and are aghast to find that the server you called home has changed with all the updates that has happened since you were gone?

Been here seven years with no stops. I watched as the DOOM was being cried out over numerous things that have changed over the years and for all the teeth gnashing and chicken little sky is falling COH is still going strong.

Everything inevitably ends but that doesn't mean COX's door's will slam shut tomorrow nor does it show sign's of that ever happening. If you are so concerned about the precarious future of COH I suggest you send NCSoft a blank check to ease your fears. In the meantime I plan to continue to pay my $15 a month and sit back and enjoy my time in the city.

(By the way, Wall of text are just bad... Just saying.)


Dragon-King First level 50 -- Fire/Nrg Blaster
(and to many alts to mention)
Protector
Quote:
Originally by Arcanaville: Everything in Praetoria was designed during a drinking binge in which the devs temporarily forgot the rules.

 

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Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael View Post
You know what's awesome? Facts are awesome. Let's have some facts.

First off, here is the (mostly) current Juggernaut's Club of MMORPGs, the ridiculously big dogs.

Note: All of these are absurd. WoW in particular has close to four times the subscriptions of any of its closest competitors. Aion is the new big huge thing. Runescape is massive. These games are all big deals to the entire industry, and in the case of WoW, to the entire world.

Here is the Big Boy's Club.

If you look at them, you will notice they fall into three categories.

1) Strong, healthy games that will not die for the foreseeable future. These include local heavyweights like LotRO and EVE, ancient and unkillable creatures like the EverQuests, and more recent products that are still currently healthy but may not stand the test of time, like Age of Conan.

2) Dying games. These ones all have one thing in common: Their peak was way higher than their current numbers and their descent has not been arrested. Warhammer Online started high but plummeted rapidly afterwards, and is now in its death throes. Whatever malady first afflicted Star Wars Galaxies in 2005 has finally killed it. Dark Ages of Camelot is suffering a similar slow demise.

3) Also, there's Rift. It's new.

The hallmark of games from the first category is that they have fairly stable server populations regardless of how big those populations are. Maintaining servers is actually super cheap (so much so that ArenaNet has made great profits off of Guild Wars using no subscription fees ever, which is why they aren't recorded on the charts), which means once the game has already been developed, there is no reason not to maintain the servers unless the subscription count drops to practically zero.

City of Heroes has that stable population of ~125,000 according to all available data. Now even if CoX profits are decreasing, so long as they level out at some point above about 25,000, Paragon will be fine. Overall, however, Paragon isn't acting like a studio facing decreasing profits. They're still churning out new content, they didn't jump on the F2P bandwagon until after bigger games with enough population padding to take risks had proved it was workable (most specifically, LotRO), and they're not making any sort of desperate money grabs like you usually see with companies about to go under. CoX remains the undisputed king of the super hero genre within the MMO industry (though dark horse challenger DCUO might unseat it eventually, and that actually could put CoX in hot water).

For the curious, there's also the charts for the Wannabes, most of which are already dead or half there, and the Never Stood A Chance category. Although Puzzle Pirates is on that last one and is actually doing fine, but you'll notice the data is five years out of date and that game's got graphics roughly on par with a flash game anyways.

Also, NCSoft is publicly traded which means we can actually download their earnings reports from their website. If you bother to download it, you'll note that CoX is pulling in about double the amount of money as Guild Wars in the past few quarters.* You may recall that Guild Wars is the game that's getting a sequel with awesome new bells and whistles which is hoping to unseat the other non-WoW industry leaders with its incredible new gaming paradigm. The one that's going toe-to-toe with Aion and The Old Republic. And Paragon is making twice the profits of those guys. This data came from November.

I think CoX is going to be fine.

*And also that holy crap NCSoft owns every platinum MMO except WoW, what shady MMO crime lord are they paying to get that kind of market dominance?
You know I really should invest in some NC soft stock one of these days. With all your fact fu got any tips on a good site to buy thier stock through?


 

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Originally Posted by Godless View Post
I live in America, that makes me an American with freedom of speech and the right to have my own opinion.
Yay for you. Your freedom of speech extends to criticism of the government in public venues.

The CoH forums aren't a public venue. It's a private resource made publicly available.

And it's utterly immaterial to this discussion.

As for your opinion. Opinions are like a rectum.
  • Everyone's got one.
  • And occasionally they're full of...something.

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Every post in this tread was my opinion of CoX. You might not agree with how I feel but you don't have to attack me for it.
We're not attacking you. We're attacking your specious argument.

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I allowed everyone that posted the freedom of not being verbally assaulted.
Telling you "you're wrong, and here's why" isn't verbal assault. It's a debate.

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If shutting down servers is a no then we won't have long to play CoX.
KTHXBAI! Can I have your stuff?

Put it this way, Paragon and NCSoft CANNOT shut down the game without giving players notice. It's a paid-for service. If they discontinue the service, they have to notify us, allow us transition time and offer us something refund/game time in another NCSoft product to compensate us for any lost pre-paid game time in CoH. Otherwise they can be taken to court and sued.

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The only bad thing I said was calling everyone narrow minded for not seeing the inevitable.
No. Everyone sees the inevitable. The game will go away. Eventually.
"Eventually" might be another 10 years.

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I think how Pinnacle was a year ago when I left and how it is now.
It's called "rose colored glasses". Or maybe "nostalgia".

A year ago people were screaming about how dead the servers were and we should merge them.

TWO years ago, people were screaming about how dead the servers were and we should merge them.

THREE years ago, people were screaming about how dead the servers were and we should merge them.

I haven't hit my 4 year mark yet, but I'm willing to be four years ago people were griping about how dead the servers were and we should merge them.

Thus far, CoH's financial performance and the fact that it's STILL running (now with even MORE servers) puts the lie to your speculations.


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How will it be a year from now if things don't change?
Probably the same as it was last year.
And the year before.
And the year before that.

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Maybe 10 - 20 players on-line, do the math.
  • That YOU can see.
  • At a given time of day
  • On a given day of the week
  • In a section of the game known for low population.
Is this penetrating yet?


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And again I only play on the Villain side of Pinnacle.
As I said, you're effectively mad that you're not seeing the numbers of someone on Freedom on a Friday evening, hero-side.



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
I haven't hit my 4 year mark yet, but I'm willing to be four years ago people were griping about how dead the servers were and we should merge them.
Yes they were saying it then. Also this past Xmas a new MMO launched in a galaxy far far away. It's been running for about 3 weeks and has sold about 3 million copies already.

Guess what. There are people like the OP already posting that the game needs to merge their servers or it will be dead in 3 months.

Disgruntled players shouting "merge the servers" is a staple in every game in the industry.