By themselves, no, those bonuses are small. However, they do add up quickly. It only takes 45% defense to floor the hit chance of most enemies. Different powers grant wildly different amounts of defense - Combat Jumping gives about 2% (depending on archetype), which doesn't do much on its own; Elude gives 45%, which softcaps you by itself.
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Yes there is. Please take the time to read my guide on defense and the softcap.
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Originally Posted by Elder Zap
There are poewers that grant 'extremely high defense bonus to all attacks' (from the power description) but the bonus is like 2.25%. That does not seem 'extremely high' to me. there are a bunch of defense powers that are like 2 or 3%. That sounds LOW to me, but is there some mechanical thing I'm unaware of that makes it signifigant? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Elder Zap
There are poewers that grant 'extremely high defense bonus to all attacks' (from the power description) but the bonus is like 2.25%. That does not seem 'extremely high' to me. there are a bunch of defense powers that are like 2 or 3%. That sounds LOW to me, but is there some mechanical thing I'm unaware of that makes it signifigant? Thanks.
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2.25% is not high. Which power is saying that?
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Superior Invisibility in Illusion Control. Though now that I look again, it says 2.25% defense, but it says it TWICE... so i'm totally confused. I was just using that as an example though. I'm trying to get my MM pets to take less damage. I have a level 24 MM. Necro/Storm. I have Steaming Mist 3 slotted for defense buff, witch gives just under 6% defense, was wondering about taking maneuvers also. May not be worth the END drain for the seemingly small buff it'll give. |
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
2.25% is not high. Which power is saying that?
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Thanks for linking to the guide Dechs Kaison. It was helpful, though I haven't gotten through it all yet.
SI has two applications of defense - if you are not in combat, you get both; if you are in combat, you only get the first one. It's the same with Stealth from the Concealment pool, and a lot of other stealth or defense powers that talk about "suppress in combat".
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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A large number of stealth-granting powers, if they grant defense at all, will list them that way. The only ones I can think of that don't do the half defense in combat bit are all in armor sets like Dark Armor or Energy Aura.
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Also worth noting is that, despite what they say in their descriptions, Group Invisibility and Grant Invisibility work a bit differently. Those only have one defense component, and it doesn't just suppress when you attack / are attacked, it CANCELS, and is gone for good. Or at least until the power is reapplied.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
SI has two applications of defense - if you are not in combat, you get both; if you are in combat, you only get the first one. It's the same with Stealth from the Concealment pool, and a lot of other stealth or defense powers that talk about "suppress in combat".
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The stealth cancels, too, so you're left with an icon on you that does nothing except make your character transparent.
Yeah this is probably one of the game's failings is properly documenting what this stat does. It's actually fairly simple to understand but it kind of takes extra reading to find and 'get it', because, yeah, a lot of people miss out on what it does and don't get why the bonuses are so 'low'.
Hmm, yes, good point - all "short term" click stealth is gone once broken, including the defense (the only long term one I can think of would be if there is one fro the SG base empowerment station)
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Mask Presence (Widows, Bane Spiders) appears to suppress and come back as it should.
And again, no 2.25%, even twice, is not a lot. Unless you have a bucket of Defense already, taking Superior Invisibility for the defense seems pretty questionable. If you had 40% defense already, or even at least 20%, then yes, but until you get in that range small amounts of defense aren't going to help.
There might be other reasons to take Superior Invisibility. And the text of the power may be referring to its stealth as "defense," since it does tend to protect you from attacks. But going strictly on the stat labeled "Defense" 2.25% is about as small as it gets in this game.
you are right, 2% is not a lot. Until it is. The off market price for One Enhancer that gives a +3% defense bonus to everything is generally 2,500,000,000.00. Yeah, 2 1/2 bill for one +3% def. Because it all stacks. Once you hit that 45% you have floored the chance for 99% of the stuff in the game to hit you. Not getting hit is good, real good. Then you get into the layered defense conversation. 1st) do not get hit. 2) resist what hits you 3) heal the damage asap. Flooring the chance to get hit (down to 5%) for almost everything in the game (Lord Recluse in the Statesman's Task Force and Incarnate stuff break the rule) is very very good. 1st) has subheadings, and they involve resisting defense debuffs, and the conversation gets wilder always. Dechs put a link up you should look at.
That one that sells for 2.5 billion inf isn't just because it's 3%c but also because it is a PvP IO. But the standard set That has the 3% defense global does tend to sell high, I will admit.
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Also if I'm not mistaken, aren't we talking about the bonus before it's enhanced, and you can about double that number with enhancements?
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I think this thread is specifically about set bonuses. Those cannot be enhanced. If you do have a defense power than you can slot enhancers to just about double it, yes. But set bonuses themselves are unalterable. They do stack however. Which is the point of getting 1.25% here, 3% there, etc. Stack those on top of a Defense armor, add combat jumping, Fighting's Weave, Leadership's Manuevers, (all of which can be enhanced) and you are closing in on that magical 45%. |
Originally Posted by Organica
Also if I'm not mistaken, aren't we talking about the bonus before it's enhanced, and you can about double that number with enhancements?
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45% is known as the soft-cap since you can go over it but anymore is pointless. Until it's not pointless, but again, the conversation just keeps getting deeper. again, check out Dech's link in this thread a few posts back for a very good run down of what you need to know.
Er, no. Defense is Schedule B, so it maxes out around 56% bonus or so, not 95% like most other things. You can just about get 1.5 times the base value, or about an extra 1.1% in this case.
That's ignoring any Incarnate powers and boosts.
Thanks for the correction gameboy1234.
Sorry if that was abrupt, but I have a bubbler (my main, actually) and I know first hand how painful it is to get Defense values above 58% or so on just IOs. Darn near impossible.
No worries. To be honest I never paid it any attention. on builds I am softcapping I am so wrapped up in set bonuses, min/maxing various slots, and hammering it together I am looking at the final number rather than what any one bonus does. With SO builds i just throw a def on when no other slot fits anywhere else. As soon as you said schedule B I was like, well of course they are lol.
There are poewers that grant 'extremely high defense bonus to all attacks' (from the power description) but the bonus is like 2.25%. That does not seem 'extremely high' to me. there are a bunch of defense powers that are like 2 or 3%. That sounds LOW to me, but is there some mechanical thing I'm unaware of that makes it signifigant? Thanks.