High resist to the most common damage types, high defense that gets higher the more trouble you're in, and a solid heal/hp boost, plus a bunch of smaller perks like debuff resistance, a strong taunt aura, and some +tohit. Even my /Inv scrapper is near indestructible. You don't need 10 foes in range to get good defense from Invulnerability, you can get defenses pretty easily into the 30s with just one foe in range, and softcap one or more types if you want to.
suppose ill give it a try
I'd say on SOs Invuln can feel like you're either, well, invulnerable, or like you have no defenses at all. The very high smashing/lethal resistances mean that against enemies that do that type of damage, you can just stand and LOL at them. On the other hand, against enemies that do pure elemental damage you can find yourself relying on Dull Pain and inspirations a lot. The defense helps, but if you're not layering power pool defenses and IOs on top you will get unlucky streaks fairly often, and your resistances against elemental damage is quite low.
I think the primary reason for Invuln's popularity is that you can put together a build that is softcapped against at least S/L/E/N (and F/C if you really want) with one foe in range. That kind of defense backed by even meager resistances gives you pretty strong survivability. When you're going up against S/L dealing foes and you're softcapped to their damage and have very high resistance to their damage, well not many sets can get that kind of mitigation. Stoners get it in Granite, but with a high (to me anyway) cost.
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Originally Posted by Lavos
is it really that good for Brutes? im taking a look at it in Mids and it doesnt seem that great for Defense, maybe im just not used to being surrounded by 10+ foes
but i had an idea for a christmas-themed brute and was trying to decide what Primary/Secondary sets to choose, im still not sure about Primary but i need less help with that but my real question is: what makes Invuln so good that im always reading about it here in this forum section? |
Is it good for Brutes? Dive into a full x8 spawn of enemies and watch your defenses skyrocket. Oh my badness YES!
SS is ALWAYS a nice option.
Street Justice is fun.
Titan Weapons is the New Hotness for AoE.
And, as soon as you can, if you're staying villain-side, do your alignment missions and get Frenzy. Instant 100% Fury! Great for starting out a mission. On my SS/Inv I do the following:
- Pop Rage
- Pop Fury
- Spring Attack into a group
- Foot Stomp
- Lay into the most dangerous boss with ST attacks till Foot Stomp recharges.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
It takes some doing, but you can soft-cap INV to S/L/E/N with 1 foe in Invincibility. See the scrapper boards and even some posts here for builds. When you pick up the various accolades you end up with a very sturdy tanky brute that can still dish dmg.
Weakenesses remain psi dmg groups e.g. Arachnos & Carnies.
I seriously considered TW/INV but ended up TW/SR to get the extra recharge and more "no get hitsu".
Call Me Awesome has written a truly awesome guide to softcapping iinvuln tanks. While the values aren't the same for others, obviously, it is still largely applicable to brutes and scrappers.
One of the reason's invuln is so good for brutes is the superior resistance to smashing and lethal attacks. This is what makes invulnerability what it is. Sadly, this is what makes it not so hot at the same time. Attacks not of the s/l sort can trickle through slowly or flood in fast and you can find yourself in some hot water *very* quickly. The psi hole is problematic- and energy and psi attacks run rampant in Incarnate content.
Scaling defense is pretty stellar- so if you have a good build that is slightly under softcap with 0 foes in range, several foes can easily put you over that cap, and you will find yourself dancing around attacks like its nothing.
If you like attention, invulnerability is very good at attracting foes to you and fueling your fury. As far brutes go, only shield and possibly stone armor can outstrip aggro from you. (Definitely shield can pull aggro from an invuln)
Dull Pain is a massive survivability boost on one hand, but on the other, it pretty much gives only you more hit points to be stripped away by annoying enemies.
I personally like invulnerability. I have about 4/5 meleers built with this primary/secondary. It is solid, and with a good build, you can go far. Just remember to pick your battles wisely.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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If by "weakness" you mean "not softcapped", sure. |
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
It takes some doing, but you can soft-cap INV to S/L/E/N with 1 foe in Invincibility. See the scrapper boards and even some posts here for builds. When you pick up the various accolades you end up with a very sturdy tanky brute that can still dish dmg.
Weakenesses remain psi dmg groups e.g. Arachnos & Carnies. I seriously considered TW/INV but ended up TW/SR to get the extra recharge and more "no get hitsu". |
And that's ignoring the secondary buffs to your positional defenses. There are very few attacks without some sort of positional flag on them, and most of the ones that don't aren't going to whack you for much damage.
As such, your Ranged and AoE numbers will provide you with some decent protection. In a lot of cases, more than will be provided by your Typed Psi defense numbers.
It may not ALWAYS be enough to save you from smootching floor, but it should slow the fall down a bit.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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This. My DB/Inv scrapper was soloing carnies at +2/x8 a couple months back just to see if I could, and the answer was yes. Sure, he's level 50 (+3) with a nice IO build and a full set of incarnate powers, and yes, a Rebirth destiny certainly contributed, but there really aren't a lot of groups more psi-heavy than Carnies, and +2/x8 is pretty excessively high difficulty for soloing anything that isn't a farm. Even then, it wasn't mostly the psi damage that gave me trouble, the real issue was debuffs and occasionally getting held when they overwhelmed Unyielding's status protection.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
If by "weakness" you mean "not softcapped", sure.
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My Inv/SS tank can also solo Carnies well enough. You'll still be weak to Psi and have no resistances to it, but in chasing defenses for S/L/E/N you'll aquire Melee and Ranged defense as well. You won't be untouchable to psionics, but you can fight them without dropping in two seconds.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
This. My DB/Inv scrapper was soloing carnies at +2/x8 a couple months back just to see if I could, and the answer was yes. Sure, he's level 50 (+3) with a nice IO build and a full set of incarnate powers, and yes, a Rebirth destiny certainly contributed, but there really aren't a lot of groups more psi-heavy than Carnies, and +2/x8 is pretty excessively high difficulty for soloing anything that isn't a farm. Even then, it wasn't mostly the psi damage that gave me trouble, the real issue was debuffs and occasionally getting held when they overwhelmed Unyielding's status protection.
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Inv is best on Tanks, great on Brutes and good on Scraps. Tanks can hardcap S/L Res at 90%. Brutes and Scraps will likely top off around 70%-72%, depending on build and investment. However if your Brute takes Unstoppable you can get 90% S/L Resists for about 3 minutes.
I use Dull Pain as a heal. Some people try to make it perma and have it up all the time for the +HP Bonus. Either way it's on a LONG recharge, so if you use it as a heal be sure to keep in mind you won't be hitting it agian soon. Because of this, however, it's a very toggle and go set.
SS is the classic pairing for Inv, and with it's Knockdown it adds a layer of mitigation. Dark Melee brings in To Hit Debuffs and it's own heal and end recovery. TW will also bring in no shortage of Knockdown and a TON of AoE. Plus Invincibility's To Hit Buffs will help land your attacks, making sure you have contsant Momentum.
A well made Inv Tank can go into a room, laugh off the damage while the player goes off to make lunch. A Brute or Scrapper can't quite do that, but they'll be grinning like mad as most things they fight die faster than them.
Inv isn't perfect, by any means, but it's very good and solid.
Err. my softcapped SS/Invul Brute eats everything. EVERYTHING. Not even sure sometimes what he is fighting, does it ever really matter? The heal. right. Isn't that sort of a button you need to hit every day or so? Not kidding. With a good build Invul Brute should just soak up all content, eat what it want, and throw the bones on the refuse heap of whatever AT wants it. I am currently re-making this exact same build in a solo Blueside project. What has given me a challenge so far. (at 28th...) Thinking, right NOTHING. The freaking beast eats it all, the hardest part about soloing the game is READING. (Some of this writing is particularly horrid. Can someone fix Midnight in 1st ward? I am not kidding. The writing is so bad on him it is embaraaing to play the game. I would rather eat a mystery meat taco than run thru his dialogue again. The dude is creepy, and not in a way that advances the story. More like ugly Joe in the cubicle down the aisle creepy...) ) Also, I have sat through more than my share of being attacked while reading dialogue. Guess what, I ignore the attackers. If (big if) I need to keel them they are only pumping my rage for the moment I cut loose. Seriously, SS/Invul Brute are the top of the food chain if you are looking at intersecting curves of survivability and damage output. Once you I/O them the story just keeps getting sweeter.
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Does he eat +4/+8 carnies or arachnos? Cause they pwn my soft-capped Fire/INV brute.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Err. my softcapped SS/Invul Brute eats everything. EVERYTHING. Not even sure sometimes what he is fighting, does it ever really matter? The heal. right. Isn't that sort of a button you need to hit every day or so? Not kidding. With a good build Invul Brute should just soak up all content, eat what it want, and throw the bones on the refuse heap of whatever AT wants it. I am currently re-making this exact same build in a solo Blueside project. What has given me a challenge so far. (at 28th...) Thinking, right NOTHING. The freaking beast eats it all, the hardest part about soloing the game is READING. (Some of this writing is particularly horrid. Can someone fix Midnight in 1st ward? I am not kidding. The writing is so bad on him it is embaraaing to play the game. I would rather eat a mystery meat taco than run thru his dialogue again. The dude is creepy, and not in a way that advances the story. More like ugly Joe in the cubicle down the aisle creepy...) ) Also, I have sat through more than my share of being attacked while reading dialogue. Guess what, I ignore the attackers. If (big if) I need to keel them they are only pumping my rage for the moment I cut loose. Seriously, SS/Invul Brute are the top of the food chain if you are looking at intersecting curves of survivability and damage output. Once you I/O them the story just keeps getting sweeter.
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Hmm, interesting. I know the level 28 version could not, he just got Invincibility at 28 and it has one enhancer in it. My softcapped 50 who is incarnated? Maybe, honestly I havent tried that. If I had to guess (and looks like I do) I would say yes, he could run through a hundred or so of them tightly packed, either group. But He is incarnated, and I would be expecting to be using inspirations to keep defense up and resists pegged, also for emergency blue and green. But again, I have not playtested that. He struggled a bit during the first few Lambdas when he was 50+0 and 50+1. Part of that was because he got separated from groups and was soloing a lot of that, and was killed a few times. Does anybody follow the route anymore? sheesh. Now he just ignores everything that is smacking at him, and I am happy with it like that.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Does he eat +4/+8 carnies or arachnos? Cause they pwn my soft-capped Fire/INV brute.
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In the carnie or arachnos scenario he would be 50+1, so they would be at +3 to him. He has a lot of ACC bonuses, and Rage, so he could hit them. They would be missing him steadily 95% time. His Fury would be pegged, so he would be killing lots. I think the carnie drain is targeted???, so that would be missing him 95% time. Also Mu would be missing him. So End should be okay. He has 3 +End Procs going, so that helps. They can kill your end recovery but those bad boys still fire. It would really be a matter of if I could kill fast enough to keep inspirations flowing. Also, i would pop some into my e-mail if I knew I was about to tackle something this hairy. Does all that strategy count? Or we talking go in nekkid and take down +4/x8? Also, that base one hour buff machine. And there has to be a temp power, if nothing else temp phase shift to give myself some insp management time if needed, and if they have cascaded failure into my def.
Basically Invulnerability is not, well Invulnerable. What it is is the best shield to hide behind in the game. But you have to know how to angle it best for the particular fight you are looking at.
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I don't mean to sound like a jerk about this, but +4/x8 was never intended gameplay for one person. You're trying something unintended (and in some cases, like this one, unwise) against some of the hardest enemy groups in the game, and it's not working. I can sympathize that it's frustrating, but you can't have expected it to be easy.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Does he eat +4/+8 carnies or arachnos? Cause they pwn my soft-capped Fire/INV brute.
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+4/x8 arachnos and carnies? Mental scramble and mask of vitiation eats Invulns without judicious inspiration consumption.
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My Fm/Inv does pretty well against the Carnies at 4/8.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
Does he eat +4/+8 carnies or arachnos? Cause they pwn my soft-capped Fire/INV brute.
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Arachnos is another story though, I wouldn't even try that to be comp;etely honest with you, no matter how many insps I had.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
Yeah, they would be freaking brutal. Still, I would try it even knowing they were coming in hard at my weakest spot. Again, just using inspirations, the base Buff adder, and various other veteran player tricks. Not saying it would go well, but I think I would have a shot.
It would not be enjoyable, and I would never regularly play that content, but I would try it as a one-off contest.
is it really that good for Brutes? im taking a look at it in Mids and it doesnt seem that great for Defense, maybe im just not used to being surrounded by 10+ foes
but i had an idea for a christmas-themed brute and was trying to decide what Primary/Secondary sets to choose, im still not sure about Primary but i need less help with that
but my real question is: what makes Invuln so good that im always reading about it here in this forum section?