Tanker Ice Armor: Replace Hibernate with Icy Bastion

I like this better. Hib is a great [PANIC] button. Yet to use/test the Ice Bastion due to fact i only have (2)Nrg Aura Stalkers and a Nin Stalker.

I like the Take one or other idea for many things really.


While we are on the topic of Ice Armor Tanks, can we get a "Alt" Shield that looks like Hoarfrost. The Blocky Ice is hard to use for some outfits of mine.

It'd be cool if they started throwing that around to more sets, new or old. More choices = good.

Actually, it's sort of within the cottage rule the way changing conserve power in electric armor to energize was within it. I mean both have +regen and recovery, and even status protection (which is is not something that can be enhanced) so meaning sets and IO sets would remain the same between changes.

on the note of picking it like the VEATs, a long time ago I proposed the concept of "alternate power selections" similar to what you and the poster directly about describe.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Yes, it's not technically a violation of the cottage rule since it keeps the same IO sets and has the same basic function of keeping you alive in a tough spot, but it's still a pretty large transformation from "turn you into an indestructible statue" to "buff your defensive stats". Personally, I would have no problem with that because I don't much like hibernate for a tank (as a totally separate issue from its effectiveness, I just don't like it), but the devs might not see it the same way.

Trying to understand what you are saying. You are saying the set should offer both Hibernate and Icy Bastion but only allow you to pick one? If so, thats something new and I am not sure how it would look on the Power select screen.. What Ice Armor will display 10 powers instead of 9?

Choice is good though so it would be good for players to still have the option to select Hibernate and they won't lose their IOs. Still if this cannot be done, Hibernate should be replaced with Ice Bastion like Conserve Power was removed from EA and ELA and replaced with a heal.

Yes, precisely. The "choose one but not both" mechanic already exists in-game with certain VEAT powers (Crabs can choose between the backpack version or the rifle version of Venom Grenade; Night Widows can choose Build Up or Follow Up but not both), and power sets of nonstandard size also already exist on all the EATs. It would be new to put this on a "normal" primary power set, but the mechanic would not be new, and thus presumably not terribly difficult, although the Standard Code Rant applies as always.

Yeah thats smart. As long as the mechanic exists then if should not be hard. Dreadshinobi just confused me for a sec when mentioning throwing that around to other sets... . ...Like what sets ? Someone feel a power needs replacing on another power set or something ?


To anyone, is there any reason to think that Icy Bastion would be overpowered on a Ice Tanker ?

...possibly. With tanker modifiers and resist enhancements, it would give ~78% resist, which would let you cap fire as well as s/l (assuming Tough). Then it also gives WP-level regen, on top of the capped HP and softcapped defense Ice/ can already have. You're probably looking at Moment of Glory-level unkillability here, except it lasts twice as long despite having a similar recharge, and unlike MoG it isn't there to plug the set's fundamental hole, it's just an awesome extra button to press. Oh, and also unlike Regen, you have a debuff aura and a damage aura.

I'm not sure all that would actually make it overpowered, but it would certainly be very good. I can't think of much of anything that would be able to kill a tank through IB, other than attacks which would just bypass it (psi, unresistable damage, etc).

Yeah thats overpowered but the idea can still work. Tanker version IB would have to be altered somewhat.

Perhaps make Icy Bastions Resistance unenhanceable or take something else out or make the duration shorter?

As long as Tanker Icy Bastion was a 30 second power that offered decent resistance it will be great... it does not need to be ridiculous like 78%. I would be happy with 25%.


The Developers would decide that naturally. I just wish they will want to implement such a change. Hibernate just seems so illogical for Tanking and I hate how you cant slot it for recharge or anything which means its not avaliable often.

My EA Brute presses Overload when I get into too much trouble and I keep fighting. Whats a current Ice Tanker going to do in that same situtation? Press Hibernate.. then emerge from the Ice trying to fight the same mob that was kicking your ***? You are just as strong now as you were before you Hibernated when they were kicking your ***. They are just going to kick your *** again and this time Hibernate wont be up cause of the No Phase timer.

Hibernate is not a god mode to make your character rise above great challenges.... its a panic button that only delays your inevitable defeat against enemies who are killing you. Which is why Icey Bastion is better.

Regardless a Resistence /Regen Buff like Icy Bastion is better and more in line with Tanking Philosophy and it makes your character tougher. Using IB makes those lucky attacks that get through your defense far less painful.

Currently, if you are solo or on a team as an Ice Tanker and you wade into trouble and start dying, you can click Hibernate, lose some aggro, re-heal but then you are just back where you started and you will just start dying again and this time Hibernate is not coming back for 2 mins.

Hibernate was great in the old days when it recharged in 30 secs or so... now its meh. Icy Bastion is the better power.

Except that Tanker Ice Armor doesn't need it. It's fine as it is. Very easy to soft-cap Defense values for S/L/E/NE, even without using Energy Absorption. Then you've got a good self-heal/+HP power, and a -DMG/-RCH aura to further reduce damage.

So you're suggesting the replacement of a power, with no need, which would violate the cottage rule to heck and back. Show me a need for this, and maybe you'd have a case.


As a tenth, optional power? Sure. Removing a power that some players like just so that you can have a power you might prefer? No thanks.

I'll have to go with this.

Personally, I love Hibernate. It's just fun to use Wish I could fit it on more concepts really.

Have it on my Ice/Ice Tanker.

I do like the idea of making it a tenth power and a choice for people, however, if they do that without doing that for all the other power sets, it's just going to cause greif from the player base at large.

Well any reasonable person would prefer IB disregarding concept but whatever.

1: I believe in one of the recent threads you stated Ice was a solid " in the middle of the road set". No reason not to try to make it better

2: Icey Bastion is more logical to Tank because a Phase heal draws away aggro

3: Ice has a large Fire Hole in defense with not enough resistence to back it up

4: Apparently to some the game is not balanced around IOs so soft-capped IO potential is irrelevant. Neverthless we must judge a build buy SO performance anyway.

5: Stalkers get access to Icey Bastion and Hibernate

6: If and when Scrappers get Stalker version Ice Armor, they will have access to Icey Bastion and Hibernate so if Tankers cannot get the better power IB, they are being left out. Why should a scrapper get all that survivability?


Let me tell you a story. A story about two men named Aett_Thorn (Ice Tanker) and Dark Age (Energy Aura Brute). We were really thristy one day and decided to go to a bar one day together and drink some beer... and more beer... and more beer... we throw some darts...drank some more beers.... played pool ... talked about how we hate Psionic bastards...drank more beer.... I rode the mechanical bull..... drank a beer...you rode the mechanical bull..broke that son of a ***** down...drank more beer... got hungry.. ordered the cheap bar food...got loaded cheese fries.....ate a rat burger...drank more beer....

Then we decided to start a fight. There was 34 other son of a ******* in that bar.. I took on 17 ... You took on 17... We turned on our toggles... got soft capped ...attempted to whoop everyones ***. Some of their attacks were getting through... I hit my heal... ... You hit your heal..... . We still started losing heath too fast still ...I hit Overload...... You hit Hibernate ......17 bastards surrounding me could not touch me. now .. I started whooping all them son of a ******* ***** ..... you got out of Hibernate....got knocked out after 10 seconds as you could not Hibernate again as your heath went down again..... ..I then whooped everyones *** in Overload... threw them all out the front door into the parking lot... picked your *** up , gave ya a beer and then told you a funny story about a cool power called Icy Bastion.


lol Stone Cold Steve Austin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OpJMcWQ1ds

Likely Scrappers would get IB and Brutes will get Hibernate. Seeing as how Scrappers have access to Hibernate in the Patron Pools, and the whole reason for IB was that Stalkers had Hibernate in the Patrons.

I prefer hibernate.

And depending on how long you're in it... you may not lose aggro.

I like Hibe.

1) "Middle of the Road Set" means that it doesn't need improvements, really. It means that it functions well for most of the game. Improvements could bump it into "overpowered" and would likely result in nerfs to the rest of the set.

2) No, The Phase does not "draw away aggro." Any aggro that you had will remain. In fact, I have been able to hold aggro through a full Hibernation session if I need to. Any Ice Tanker worth his salt should be able to do this with two aggro auras.

3) So? that's SUPPOSED to be a hole in the set. And actually, it has more Fire resistance than it does Psychic Resistance (zero), and Icey Bastion wouldn't help with that.

4) 17% Base Def on its armors, plus 1% unenhanceable for Wet Ice means that slotted, an Ice Armor Tanker has roughly 27.5% Defense. If you're enemy saturated, you're getting another 10.36% Defense from EA. That's almost 38% Defense. You don't need IOs to reach the soft cap. Combat Jumping and Weave will do it.

Compare that to your EA Brute/Scrapper: 12.75% Def base (19.89 slotted), plus 3.75 base for Energy Cloak (5.85 slotted), plus 6.6 from a saturated Energy Drain = 32.34% Defense. Combat Jumping and Weave will not get you to the Soft Cap without IOs.

5) Fantastic. That's actually the ONLY reason they got a new power in the set. Tankers don't have that problem. Stalkers got a new power because otherwise they would have been able to choose the same power twice, which the Devs don't want you to do. Tankers can't do that, so there's no reason to change it on that account.

6) See response above for #5.

And let's make an accurate description of that fight, since you're leaving out several things that help the Tanker out, such as the -DMG/-RCH debuff from CE, the constant AoE damage from Icicles, and the fact that the Tanker gets a good deal of +HP from his heal (and yes, I know that Energize will give you some +Regen, which we'd need to account for as well).

That being said, my soft-capped permanently Ice Tanker would be taking the same amount of damage as your some-times capped /EA Brute. Except that when yours wears off, you die, and mine doesn't wear off. On top of that, I have hibernate in case I do take too much damage due to some lucky rolls.

There's a reason they call it soft-capped Defense. Using Overload on top of your armors only increases your suvivability so much (to about the same level as the Ice Tanker normally is at). So have fun believing that that would allow you to shrug off more hits than my Ice Tanker in this scenario.

And IB is better.

Ice Armor does not need two heals anymore.

Subjective opinion is subjective...


...not fact.

Fresh Milk is better than Sour Milk.


...go ahead.....

Sour milk makes great pancakes.

But that's not really a true analogy you're using. A better one might be that a hacksaw is better than a circular saw. Someone whole only ever needs the hacksaw may very well agree with you, while the person who only ever needs the circular saw will violently disagree.

The truth is that they're both useful for different things, much like Hibernate and Icey Bastion. Hibernate is a reactive tool for if you need it. Icey Bastion is a proactive tool for before you get hit, really. On a Stalker, Icey Bastion works to shore up holes. For Tankers, since they have much smaller holes, it becomes less useful, and a panic button is a better solution.

Also, since you're complaining about the down time of Hibernate, let me remind you that Overload is on a 1,000 second base recharge for 180 seconds of use (base 18% uptime), Icey Bastion is 300 seconds for 30 seconds of use (base 10% uptime) and Hibernate is 120 seconds for 45 seconds of potential use (base 37.5% uptime). So yeah, you're not going to win that argument.

Overload is a God Mode that lasts for 3 mintues.

Middle of the Road means Middle of the Road which means... average. So why cant Ice Armor be above average like other sets ?

Hibernates a quick new life but you have no increase in durability. So if for example I was soloing alone on +3/ 8 person missions, you have nothing really available to defeat the mobs if they are inflicting serious damage on you consistently. My EA Brute has a way out, other Defensive sets offer a way out. Ice does not in this case.

Hibernate also hurts aggo albiet not directly , but sitting in the Ice Block for 2-4 seconds does stop you from doing anything .thus you cant protect the team. 3 seconds is an eternity in a fight.

Honestly after the numbers Hopeling gave, anyone prefering Hibernate over IB is either willing to intentionally gimp themselves or are just ignorant of the game design. From what we know its a more effective power. This is a fact. What is unknown is how the power would be changed if it was given to Ice Tankers.