brute vs scrapper sets

Shield is better on a scrapper, only because shield charge is a pseudo-pet and gains from a scrappers higher base. AAO is also slightly better for the same reason.

Electric melee is better on a scrapper, for exactly the same reason.

Electric/shield is the scrappers bastion against brootness. There's nothing quite like the massive pulse-nukes of an elec/shield.

Fire melee is better on a brute due to fury boosting the dots. Same for dark, although not quite as much. Weapon sets are less good on a brute because gloom is just THAT GODLIKE on a brute. (Dots get boosted.) They can still work well, but the redraw may be an issue.

Armor sets: Anything with a damage aura is better on a brute. Anything with regen or +hitpoints is better on a brute. Anything that can cap a resist category is WAAAAY better on a Brute, especially things like Invuln and Fire.

Claws is better on a brute. Holy cow, is it ever.

I have three brutes currently in the projects list:

SS/electric/body
claws/invuln/body
fire/wp/soul

All three of those combos are a LOT better on a brute. The fire/wp/soul might have the largest performance envelope of any toon that isn't an EAT.

elec/shield and elec/elec is better on a scrapper for damage, although the elec/elec lacks a taunt aura on a scrapper.

Numbers wise, there's minor difference in damage (generally), and a larger disparity in toughness.

For my 2 cents, unless I'm trying for a concept or rolling Spines, Elec Melee, Kin Melee or a Shield user... I'm rolling a Brute.

Ok, I am so glad I found this thread.

Long ago, before I knew Shields was better on Scrappers, I made a Mace/Shield Brute and took her through Praetoria with no problems. I ran her through lots of Ouroboros missions regular contact missions, and tips.

Then I heard Brutes are inferior to Scraps as far as Shields go.

My reaction to this bit of news was I stopped playing her...but did not delete her.

Now that I hear about the new mace skins in the..err..Carnies of Light pack coming out, I want a make mace wielder of somesort but I don't want to start from scratch when I have a perfectly good, IOed out, Mace/Shield parked at level 38.

How exactly is Shields worse on a Brute....could you, or anybody, explain it in terms this mathematically challenged old granny type can understand?

What do I have to do, to make this combo work for a brute?

Lisa.

You can make it work, and if you enjoy it don't let people telling you "it's better on a Scrapper" stop you from playing.

But to answer the question:

• Brutes have the lowest base damage of any melee AT.
• Shield Charge uses a pseudopet to deal damage, and the pets were created to align with the base damage modifiers.
  • Since it is a pet, it is limited to +300% damage due to the pet 400% damage cap.
  • The lower damage cap prevents Fury from allowing a Brute to catch up to Scrappers - or even some Tankers - when using Shield Charge
• Against All Odds is a persistent +damage boost.
  • Due to the first point, Brutes get a smaller increase in damage dealt compared to Scrappers or Tankers.
  • Brutes already have a persistent +damage boost in Fury, so the relative increase in damage is much smaller than for Scrappers or Tankers.
  • Scrappers have a higher +damage AT modifier, so they get a greater increase of a higher base damage.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Also, AAO for Brutes uses the Tanker +damage bonus. That is to say in addition to all of your points Brutes also get a lower overall +damage bonus out of AAO than Scrappers do. (+55% vs. +68.75%)




At the OP:

Anytime you can squeeze in a lot of +damage bonuses (like SD, or +damage bonus focused SR IO builds, etc) or Musculature Alpha, or if your primary has a persistent Damage bonus - Scrappers will generally pull ahead by a considerable margin in terms of top end damage dealing.

If those things are not true, and you are playing a primary without a persistent damage boost, or can't fit musculature into the build, etc. Brutes will get closer in terms of damage dealing and at that point you will want to choose which AT you prefer stylistically and if you'd rather have a bit more damage or a bit more survivability.

While all secondary sets are technically better on Brutes in terms of mitigation, you really want to consider if the mitigation is worth what the build loses overall.

For example, SD is a hands down a win for a Scrapper in terms of overall value of mitigation & damage dealing (even though the Brute has more HP, and can hit something like 2800 with OWTS running). Something like Katana/WP would probably be a better overall combination on a Brute (the Brute still does less damage, but now the mitigation advantage shines enough to make the loss of damage more worthwhile).



I think Invuln, WP & Ela are probably my top three picks for Brute secondaries that make out very well in terms of mitigation value gained (gained beyond what the Scrapper build is capable of) vs. damage dealing lost* (lost by not going Scrapper).

*Although WP & Ela having no endurance concerns are prime candidates to make Musculature alpha work, going Spiritual on the other hand will see the Brute advantage pull ahead again.

I think the Defense sets shine much better on Scrappers, who can try and work in +damage bonuses to greater effect (Iggy posted an SR build with over +40% damage bonuses from IO sets), and especially if they can squeeze in musculature alpha - so SD, EA and SR.



In terms of Primaries, Claws is a special case and is so close for the two of these ATs that I would decide by secondary or personal AT preference.

DM I consider better for a Scrapper due to Soul Drain's persistent damage boost and its limited AoE capabilities forcing a Brute to work a bit harder to generate AoE aggro. But if your intent is a hardcore survivability build like DM/Invuln, then that pairing would go to the Brute (vs. DM/SD which goes to the Scrapper).

Dual Blades, KM & Elm are hands down better on Scrappers by far. I highly recommend going Scrapper on these sets.

Most of the sets that just use a typical build up would see me choose AT depending on secondary.



*Lastly, if you have no intention of a top end build investment I would say the differences between them will come down more to style and in some ways their roles on teams.

That was actually the last bullet point on the list (the +dam AT modifier one).

The power uses the "melee_buff_dmg" modifier and it's not that "Brutes are getting the Tanker bonus", it's that Brutes and Tankers share the same value on the modifier (0.100) and Scrappers have a higher one (0.125).

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Reading it over, I realize I misread what you wrote.

Sorry about that.

Oh its even better than that for Stalkers, who don't get Power Siphon but Build Up instead.

Striking from a Hidden state guarantees a crit, so you pop Build Up, use Concentrated Strike, and in the process renew Build Up even though Concentrated Strike can't crit (doesn't need to as it does a truckload of damage).