Random idea for Bubbles..
By
Codewalker,
Posted on: 2011-12-14 18:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Detention Field. I was saying how you can use it to shut down the towers on STF, so they cant buff the spider man.
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That is pretty awesome, I never thought of doing that.
Also yes, making detention field a toggle would make the power ridiculously more useful than it is now.
Making it a toggle is a great idea... they could make it like Phase Shift or Steam Jump, where it automatically detoggles after so many seconds (whatever the current duration is) but you could turn it off early if needed.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
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Yay some people like my idea!
Great idea, although it's come up a few times over the years and been rejected on technical grounds.
On a side note I wish they would stop making it so Detention Field doesn't work every time it turns out to be useful. There is a rumor (not sure its true) that it used to be useable on the psychics in the TPN trial, now not. Same as the AV in Keyes. A real tragedy too, since prior to that I believe they made it so Force Bubble doesn't push the bombs in Tin Mage back (and it never worked on the swords in Apex at all). Would be great if FFs powers actually worked in situations they would actually be useful. 
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What? Bad power has a purpose? Can't let that happen! NerfNerfNerfNerf
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Great idea, although it's come up a few times over the years and been rejected on technical grounds.
On a side note I wish they would stop making it so Detention Field doesn't work every time it turns out to be useful. There is a rumor (not sure its true) that it used to be useable on the psychics in the TPN trial, now not. Same as the AV in Keyes. A real tragedy too, since prior to that I believe they made it so Force Bubble doesn't push the bombs in Tin Mage back (and it never worked on the swords in Apex at all). Would be great if FFs powers actually worked in situations they would actually be useful. |
Ahh ok. I really do not buy the 'technical grounds' excuse though. If that were the case, we would never get anything new. And it cant be THAT tricky..TK works almost the same as I see a toggle DF working..just applying a phase to a single target rather than an aoe hold.
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The problem is inherent to the way toggles and intangibility works.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Ahh ok. I really do not buy the 'technical grounds' excuse though. If that were the case, we would never get anything new. And it cant be THAT tricky..TK works almost the same as I see a toggle DF working..just applying a phase to a single target rather than an aoe hold.
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Toggles refresh every half second or so, reapplying the effect, with a slightly longer duration.
This works great for things like telekinesis, but when trying to do that with intangibility, you end up with a toggle that only works half the time.
IE:
1. Toggle Intangible power
2. 0.5 seconds later the toggle tries to reapply the effect but fails because the target is intangible.
The 'technical problem' is applying intangibility to a target that is intangible.
...or at least, this is how it was explained by a red name a long time ago.(Not sure who)
Hard to say if it would still be an issue.
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Speakling as someone who has delved into this deeper than you, it is currently not feasible without getting the programming staff involved. You are considering a haircut to be the same thing as bowel surgery.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Ahh ok. I really do not buy the 'technical grounds' excuse though. If that were the case, we would never get anything new.
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It actually it workable, and already exists in the game, just not in any Player powers.|
Originally Posted by Tylerst
The problem is inherent to the way toggles and intangibility works.
Toggles refresh every half second or so, reapplying the effect, with a slightly longer duration. This works great for things like telekinesis, but when trying to do that with intangibility, you end up with a toggle that only works half the time. IE: 1. Toggle Intangible power 2. 0.5 seconds later the toggle tries to reapply the effect but fails because the target is intangible. The 'technical problem' is applying intangibility to a target that is intangible. ...or at least, this is how it was explained by a red name a long time ago.(Not sure who) Hard to say if it would still be an issue. |
Hamidon has a tag on his attacks so that they ignore phase. Player Intangible powers could have the [Ignores Phase] tag added. That would allow them to be applied to already phased/intangible targets.
The real downside to it is that making it a toggle actually makes it worse for the situations where it's actually useful, because Toggles don't start recharging until they're turned off, so unless it has a ridiculously low recharge (like, 0seconds), you can never have it anything close to permanent, like you can make it now.
Also there's issue of getting mezzed and it shutting off before the full duration. Running out of end/getting sapped, and it shutting off before the full duration. Getting killed, and it shutting off. Or simply fat-fingering the button and accidentally shutting it off before you meant to.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Exactly. As of now (or really as of the last 8 years), there's like one or maybe two total uses for the power in the whole game. That's ridiculous. And more ridiculously, it's in a severely underperforming set.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Would be great if FFs powers actually worked in situations they would actually be useful.
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If Detention Field worked like Phase Shift (toggle with active time limit), I'm sure it would be a bit more useful and desirable.
Speaking of which... since one of my favorite and most powerful characters is a FF/Elec Defender...
Who else passes on Repulsion Field and Repulsion Bomb? I've just never found either of these power desirable to take over... well, anything.
I love the new (well, new for a while now) repulsion bomb. It's a great little aoe damage power now.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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The only problem is that it's risky. If they set Detention Field to shoot through untouchable, it would allow players to use it on any enemy in the game, even those that are already untouchable, whether due to phase shift or something else.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
It actually it workable, and already exists in the game, just not in any Player powers.
Hamidon has a tag on his attacks so that they ignore phase. Player Intangible powers could have the [Ignores Phase] tag added. That would allow them to be applied to already phased/intangible targets. |
So you'd be able to cage an enemy Phantom Army or Decoy Phantasm...
Not to mention scripted NPCs set to be untouchable that clever players would probably find a way to exploit.
Okay, since it's not cool to shoot something down and not present any alternative ideas, and since I do like the idea of Detention Field (and Sonic Cage/Black Hole/Dimension Shift) being toggles, here's what I came up with:
For brevity, Temporary_Powers is shorthand for Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers
Detention Field
Type = Toggle--------------------------------
Accuracy = 1.4
Range = 80'
Time to activate = 2.07
Recharge time = 30 seconds (cut in half since it's a toggle)
Attack types = Ranged_Attack
Effect area = Character
Entities affected = Foe
Target = Foe
Effect #1Application Type = On ActivateEffect #2
Target = Target
Duration = 5
Attribute = Grant Power
Power = Temporary_Powers.Is_Caged
Display Float = Detention FieldApplication Type = On ActivateEffect #3
Target = Target
Duration = 99999
Attribute = Grant Power
Power = Temporary_Powers.Detention_Field_TargetApplication Type = On Activate
Target = Self
Duration = 99999
Attribute = Summon
Entity = Pets_Detention_Field_Helper
Priority Lists = Pet.Follow
Temporary_Powers.Detention_Field_Target
Type = Auto--------------------------------
Activation Period = 2 second
Effect area = Character
Entities affected = Self
Entities autohit = Self
Number allowed = 1
Effect #1Application type = On Tick(effects #2 and #3 are as above, but OnlyAffectsSelf and Immobolized. Add PvP versions as necessary)
Type = Magnitude
Target = Self
Attribute = Mag 4 Ranged_Immobolize Untouchable
Stack Type = Replace
Duration = 2.25
Requires = Temporary_Powers.Is_Caged target.ownPower?
Effect #4Application type = On Tick
Target = Self
Attribute = RevokePower
Power = Temporary_Powers.Detention_Field_Target
Requires = Temporary_Powers.Is_Caged target.ownPower? !
Entity: Detention_Field_Helper
Untargetable pseudopet--------------------------------
Class_Minion_Pets
Puddle model
Power: Pets.ResistAll.ResistAll
(this is a standard psuedopet power that applies mag 100 Untouchable and Fly)
Power: Pets.Detention_Field_Helper.Detention_Field_HelperType = Auto
Activate Period = 2 seconds
Effect area = Sphere
Radius = 160
Shoot through untouchable = True
Entities affected = Foe
Entities autohit = Foe
Target = Caster
Max Targets Hit = 255
Target Requires = Temporary_Powers.Detention_Field_Target target.ownPower?
Effect #1Application Type = On Tick
Target = Target
Stack Type = Stack
Attribute = GrantPower
Power = Temporary_Powers.Is_Caged
Duration = 5
Temporary_Powers.Is_Caged
Type = Auto---------------------------------
Activate Period = 9999
Effect Area = Character
Entities affected / autohit / target = Caster
Number Allowed = 2 // <---- Important!
Effect #1Target = Self
Attrib = Null
Duration = 1
So there you have it. It's somewhat complex, but that doesn't do anything that existing powers don't already do, and should be possible to implement without any code changes. It also limits the ability to affect normally unaffected targets to a pseudopet, and even then only uses it to grant a harmless marker power that does nothing. A mode could be used instead, but I'm not sure if running out of mode bits is a concern. Consider it a first draft.
Though if I were going to implement something like this for real, I'd first check to see if powers granted by toggle are automatically removed when the toggle drops; if so then that would be a simpler way to implement it, just grant Temporary_Powers.Detention_Field_Target directly from the toggle with a long duration, and the requires checks and RevokePower effect removed. Since the granted power is used by the enemy, it should be able to affect itself despite being untouchable (if not, it can be safely flagged to ignore untouchable since the target check has already happened).
Not totally sure what all the means Code..but it looks important and stuff! I understand some people have a better idea of how hard and feasible things are to add into the game..BUT..just because something needs new coding or whatever, that is not a reason not to do it. At most, it is a reason why whatever the idea is would take LONGER to add.
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Thread necro's not nice, but I feel the need to bring this up: I was wrong, the programming staff have clearly overcome this problem in the time since I learned what I learned, and hoorah, this idea is far more feasible than I thought.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Speakling as someone who has delved into this deeper than you, it is currently not feasible without getting the programming staff involved. You are considering a haircut to be the same thing as bowel surgery.
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Actually, according to his latest post(second paragraph), it's still a problem for toggles. He found a workaround by using a location based AoE toggle intead of enemy based.|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Thread necro's not nice, but I feel the need to bring this up: I was wrong, the programming staff have clearly overcome this problem in the time since I learned what I learned, and hoorah, this idea is far more feasible than I thought.
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Link to post:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...73#post4063673
About the only way this would work for Detention field would be if they made it an extremely small AoE(since it's meant to be single target)
I see that the new grav changes have a similar change to Dim Shift.
*hogs all the credit*
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=51
Opps, I see Ty posted it too
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Tiny AOE with a target cap of 1, perhaps?
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Originally Posted by Tylerst
Actually, according to his latest post(second paragraph), it's still a problem for toggles. He found a workaround by using a location based AoE toggle intead of enemy based.
Link to post:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...73#post4063673 About the only way this would work for Detention field would be if they made it an extremely small AoE(since it's meant to be single target) |
Just a quick idea for FF..
Was logging in older toons to see if they had they annoying tray reset bug (they didnt) and happened on my old grav/ff troller. I was linking powers at random to a friend and she was laughing at Detention Field. I was saying how you can use it to shut down the towers on STF, so they cant buff the spider man.
So my idea. Make DetField a toggle cage. That is, the duration is entirely dependant on the user. I think the biggest gripe with the power is that (other that being very situational) you have to wait a long time before you can actually remove said target.
If it was a toggle, you could slap it on an annoying baddie in a mob, sapper, ills, etc, then simple detoggle it after the rest of the mob is cleared, letting people kill it right away instead of waiting.