So any Kheldian's who made it to the Pummit?

Oh I remember now Red, I had some negative views on OD years ago ya talked me out of, I just never spend that much time in human form I guess to go for it.

i want the Knockback removed from Solar Flare.. It is one of the only Melee PbAoE in the whole game that does knockback (the other one being Thunderstrike if I remember correctly) . It should be removed PERIOD.. It is simply penalizing PB's now. Teams in general have an issue with PB because of the Cysts and because of knockback which is understandable. Unlike other knockback which often can be controlled with intelligent play and position PbAoE knockack is not so easy to manage. Then consider all the other things in the PB set that have knockback and it becomes one of the most annoying things to team with.

Also the excuse that removing the KB or turning it into KD would make it overpowered is sheer stupidity.

Lets look at that theory...

The SS/Fire brute has fury giving them a consistent damage boost, plus a massive damage boost from Rage which can be EASILY perma'd, ANOTHER damage boost in Fiery Embrace, a KNOCKDOWN PbAoE in Footstomp, Another PbAoE in Blazing Aura, and then finally an Easily Perma'd PbAoE in Burn...

And this ignores the fact that you could also easly take Fireball for yet ANOTHER attack while ranged can be easily used as ANOTHER PbAoE...

Not to mention a higher damage cap and a very huge heal in Healing Flames and if I am correct a higher HP cap as well.

So the Brute can spam Footstomp, buff themselves greatly, and Burn the crap out of everything in a small area ????!!!!!!

and the PEACEBRINGER would be overpowered by turning knockback into knockdown ????!!!!!

Are you SERIOUS???!!!!!!

THATS what pisses me off.. the disparity in what is seen as overpowered...


breathing... calming down.... rage subsiding.....

Two Headed Boy emailed me two builds;

1: Very well spec'd Warshade, very expensive, clearly something that works. The WS is very destructive, softcapped to S/L and does a lot of disorientating but lacks in mezz protection.

2: Peacebringer also well done, very expensive and by Two Headed Boy doing it, a conversion in a way of his WS as near as dammit, so what is I hope a full on AV defeating human warshade players idea of a Peacebringer what can meet his expectations. The Peacebringer, has Lightform which can resist mezzes, doesn't rely on hitting targets for as much of its survivability but gets to S/L softcap with combat flight. Also despite the talk of Pulsar not being good enough, this build was established without it.

So I felt that there was some balancing to left to do:

What I did was get that PB build to S/L Softcap "without needing Combat Flight on, because thats slow", and what I also did was give the PB a very well slotted Pulsar because its being discussed for change.

*Already there is something of a trade off in that Warshades don't have as much human form mezz protection and so are better able to actively control to avoid being controlled.*

Anyway getting that PB to softcap S/L without combat flight and adding pulsar mean't all the -Res procs came out, and proton scatter was dropped at risk, of perhaps that the maximum potential amount of damage of a PB would be less than a Warshades. But then would it? A FotG -Res Proc did get added to the PB in flare so now the WS and PB are roughly the same, twins from another mother.

I threw the builds into excel. I say threw because it's a basic "small confined look at damage potential" of these two well IO setted builds as I am worried about the loss of Proton Scatter from THBs PB build. Also especially as I took the -res out of the PB to slot Pulsar.

In excel, AoEs that hit 10 had their DPA multiplied by 10, the best DPA attacks were repeated as often as possible and from good to worse DPA the attacks were repeated less, but ingame you can't achieve that, some attacks get in the way of using another or the attack chain is way complicated people won't use them. So I had to simplify these attack chains slightly for realism, add up the maximum amount of potential damage of combined aoe and st attacks.

Then the total amount of damage done between two sunless mires or two inner lights was converted into an average dps. Sunless mires maximizing on 10 targets, Innerlight given an average damage buff because of how it works and what transpired on my excel was although not wholly correct from not being completely broken down, but certainly ballpark, the result was something to make me feel that the Peacebringer was even without Proton Scatter, no lightweight. Close in the way I felt a nerf to PBs *could* happen but like I say I had been looking at a "confined look" at the builds.

So there are other factors to look at next, to be less confined, obviously warshades need more preferential conditions. A Pb doesnt care if there is one in melee or 10, it doesn't rely on tohit as much neither. Having decided that there is a good chance the PB is comparatively fine if not better gorrammit, the warshade must have something going for it.

So what could that be?

Stygian Circle.

With Two Headed Boys permission I would post the builds he sent me. I will also then be able to post the PB build I changed to best match the Warshade (twin from another mother). Two Headed Boy said his PB doesn't flow as well as a Warshade, has too many clickies for his liking, compared to a WS this is certainly true.

Anyone can break things down on excel and see what opinion they might get once I post these builds and point flaws in what I have concluded, but for me the warshade sure was lucking out until you take in the potential of stygian circle. It would take a lot of breaking down to get all nick picky, but I am otherwise walking away from this thread thinking that my initial subjective view just happens to matches my objective but because of having looked at a confined area of twin builds that doesn't mean that things might not happen. They might for reasons such as what people typically have for a build.

Solar Flare. I don't always see the Knockback to care but yep it's not always the welcome thing in teams let alone solo. Should that happen however I would like to see a buff to Warshades .