Review "Kill All" Mission objectives
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-11-16 13:14 in Suggestions and Ideas
Well technically the objective is "Defeat All" not "Kill All". You aren't a random psychopath, you're making sure that all members of a dangerous gang are properly remanded into police custody.
If I'm tossing fire and shooting arrows into people who slump to the ground once "defeated," I find it hard to believe they're still alive. And I don't buy into guilt by association, just because someone's a member of a gang doesn't override the fact that they were standing around, minding their own business in a warehouse.
Your contacts are the dangerous ones. You were just following orders. <.<
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Some of the newer missions have actual arrest teleport animations, which is a nice touch.
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just like it's hard to believe you take gatling guns, boulders, and dark energy from the abyss to the face and the worst that happens is getting whisked away to the hospital?|
Originally Posted by Twilightdusk
If I'm tossing fire and shooting arrows into people who slump to the ground once "defeated," I find it hard to believe they're still alive. And I don't buy into guilt by association, just because someone's a member of a gang doesn't override the fact that they were standing around, minding their own business in a warehouse.
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It's a game and it uses suspension of disbelief.
Look, justification that you're not actually killing them is a side issue here, after all, we're in no way obligated to "defeat" every single gang member we come across while traveling across the zone. My issue is that there's plenty of missions where defeating everyone present isn't necessary in the context. Given that there are missions where once I defeat the boss, or retrieve/destroy whatever object they're guarding, the mission ends even if there's a ton of enemies left. It's inconsistent at best to have some missions require you to defeat everyone present after the stated objective is completed while other missions will just end the mission once you've completed the stated objective.
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Then you have somehow managed to ignore the dozens upon dozens of missions where you attack someone with those same powers, he slumps down and is then arrested, questioned and subsequently escapes to fight you again. Without even turning my brain on, I can name Moment doing this off the top of my head. Castillo, Nocturne and Sands do this multiple times.|
Originally Posted by Twilightdusk
If I'm tossing fire and shooting arrows into people who slump to the ground once "defeated," I find it hard to believe they're still alive.
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Unless the narrative explicitly cites a kill, then it's not a kill. Not unless you want it to be.
Moreover, I like defeat all missions. I'm being perfectly honest here that if all missions in the game were made into defeat alls, I'd appreciate the change.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Semantic bickering over kill/defeat aside, stealth defeat-all missions need to go. They're a throwback to the bad old days and a maddening waste of time. If someone wants to defeat everybody in the joint for the thrills or the expeez, there's nothing stopping them, but when I take a mission that's billed as, for example, "3 bioweapons labs to destroy", I decline to be pleased when I have sought out and destroyed those labs, then discover that the mission still won't end until I've personally punched out every giant mushroom, rock monster, and uppity rose bush in the entire giant sprawling blue friggin' cave by myself.
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This, exactly this. |
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Semantic bickering over kill/defeat aside, stealth defeat-all missions need to go. They're a throwback to the bad old days and a maddening waste of time. If someone wants to defeat everybody in the joint for the thrills or the expeez, there's nothing stopping them, but when I take a mission that's billed as, for example, "3 bioweapons labs to destroy", I decline to be pleased when I have sought out and destroyed those labs, then discover that the mission still won't end until I've personally punched out every giant mushroom, rock monster, and uppity rose bush in the entire giant sprawling blue friggin' cave by myself.
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Like I said, I wouldn't mind if the game at least let us know ahead of time that I'd have to defeat everyone on the map to complete the mission, but if all it tells me is "Destroy 12 rage synthesizers" and I stealth/speed/fly past enemies who aren't right near them, I see no reason why I should suddenly have to murder/arrest every single person in the base to get a mission completion.
I have nothing against people who would like to defeat everyone anyway, but there's no reason to force us to do so in so many of these missions!
Anyone in favour of defeat all type missions should go and play one in that multi tiered, rampy arachnos base room with the elevators. It is even worse when you are on a toon with pets, and the fall/run off and aggro everything
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Why would it need to be changed? Why not just treat every mission like a defeat all? Nothing's stopping you (except a timer in some cases, but that's neither here nor there.)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Moreover, I like defeat all missions. I'm being perfectly honest here that if all missions in the game were made into defeat alls, I'd appreciate the change.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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QFE. The least they can do is make sure all defeat-alls have that notation in the mission objective bar from the beginning of the mission.
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Originally Posted by Twilightdusk
This, exactly this.
Like I said, I wouldn't mind if the game at least let us know ahead of time that I'd have to defeat everyone on the map to complete the mission, but if all it tells me is "Destroy 12 rage synthesizers" and I stealth/speed/fly past enemies who aren't right near them, I see no reason why I should suddenly have to murder/arrest every single person in the base to get a mission completion. |
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...and this is why I can't seem to spend any significant amount of time blue side. I only see the stealth defeat-alls over there. I hate those things with a passion. If we didn't have the mission drop feature I'd probably just leave those undone, and once I maxed out on open missions I'd probably just abandon the toon.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Semantic bickering over kill/defeat aside, stealth defeat-all missions need to go. They're a throwback to the bad old days and a maddening waste of time. If someone wants to defeat everybody in the joint for the thrills or the expeez, there's nothing stopping them, but when I take a mission that's billed as, for example, "3 bioweapons labs to destroy", I decline to be pleased when I have sought out and destroyed those labs, then discover that the mission still won't end until I've personally punched out every giant mushroom, rock monster, and uppity rose bush in the entire giant sprawling blue friggin' cave by myself.
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As for regular defeat all missions, I don't mind them that much. I drop them when I can and if I can't because I already used my mission drop, I log for three days and play a different character. What I'd like is to have all defeat all missions made timed. That way instead of logging that character for three days, I'd only have to do it for a couple hours.
For those argueing they are being killed, my bet is they are beign teleported like we us when we're defeated. I believe I heard a boss talk about it once on a paper mission when he talked about Ghost Widow actually killing someone by ripping their soul out. Guy said the victim didn't get a teleport to the hospital. So my bet is they get defeated, hospitalized, and then arrested.
Not to mention defeat all is to arrest as many guys from that gang as you can.
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I love those rooms, myself. City of Heroes instances have always lacked verticality to any great extent, mostly taking place on either flat terrain or at best a terraced terrain. Sheer drops, multiple stacking platforms and long bridges are always much appreciated. Interesting terrain is appreciated in general. Few things grow old faster than the level, flat ground and huge empty corridors of Praetorian labs.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Anyone in favour of defeat all type missions should go and play one in that multi tiered, rampy arachnos base room with the elevators. It is even worse when you are on a toon with pets, and the fall/run off and aggro everything
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Why would it need to be changed? Why not just treat every mission like a defeat all? Nothing's stopping you (except a timer in some cases, but that's neither here nor there.)
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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/signed
I hate spending five minutes tracking back and forward looking for stragglers and missing patrols that might or might not be showing in the minimap as red arrows.
agreed with the OP
The worst was a mission to defeat the Clockwork King, and after we defeated him we had to hunt down a minion that was hiding in the warehouse to complete the mission (the mission may have changed by now).
it was so anticlimactic and frustrating
the striga defeat all robots in the warehouse - where almost all are wandering patrols is particularly annoying
I'd just like to see "that" cave, the one that ends with a multi-tiered cavern, with holes in the floor everywhere you can barely see, and many, many spawns all waiting to alpha onto some poor sob who got separated from the team, that ALL must be cleared in addition to any glowing objective or named boss inhabiting the room, removed from the newspaper and police scanner rotation.
The new sewer trial shows that defeat alls can be a fine and efficient use of time, when you're given a linear map and a way of tracking your progress.
remove ENDLESSLY fleeing enemies. I'm getting tired of minions, LTs, bosses, EBs, and AVs that are trying to escape. I hate chasing them down. Also, if they run away from the battle, they should run back ... not just saunter back like they have memory loss that you're waiting to kick their ars.
Fleed enemy's thoughts while returning: "I wonder where I was going ... oh well ... time to return to my post ... AAAHHH who are you?"
In short ... give enemies the guts to fight again. My mere presence shouldn't make them run.
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Originally Posted by Twilightdusk
If I'm tossing fire and shooting arrows into people who slump to the ground once "defeated," I find it hard to believe they're still alive. And I don't buy into guilt by association, just because someone's a member of a gang doesn't override the fact that they were standing around, minding their own business in a warehouse.
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hahahahahahahahahaa. X'D
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Originally Posted by all_hell
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It's not your job to decide if they're guilty of anything. You can arrest them based on association, it's up to a court of law to decide guilt.|
Originally Posted by Twilightdusk
If I'm tossing fire and shooting arrows into people who slump to the ground once "defeated," I find it hard to believe they're still alive. And I don't buy into guilt by association, just because someone's a member of a gang doesn't override the fact that they were standing around, minding their own business in a warehouse.
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That being said ... you shouldn't have to take out all the "small time" crooks to complete an objective. There are many cases where detectives only arrest the boss or confiscate specific items and let the normal cops take care of the rest.
I'm not sure how complex it would be to do so, but I'd like to see the devs look over a lot of the missions with a "kill all enemies" requirement and evaluate if that requirement is really necessary.
Sure, there are some cases when the context of the mission justifies it, but I often feel frustrated when the task (and initial mission objective) I'm given is "Destroy something that these guys are guarding," and then once I've done the task I'm suddenly hit with "kill all enemies."
It makes my supposedly 'heroic' character seem like a bloodthirsty psychopath. I can understand justifying killing the people who get in my way to the objective, but if there's some skulls minding their own business in a side room that's not on path to my objective, why force me to kill them?
Hell, I wouldn't even mind so much if the mission would tell me upfront that I'd have to kill everyone so I can judge if killing everyone fits with what my character would do in the given context, but when it's sprung on us by surprise...it just annoys me.