Would like to see human only builds


AlienOne

 

Posted

I would like to see these human only builds that reach capped s/l defense with enough recharge to make Light Form permanent. The claim is that it is possible; I remain dubious.

Note, to qualify as human only, the build cannot be a dual-form or tri-form build. That means no White Dwarf, no Bright Nova.


 

Posted

It's not the most practical thing to do without taking Dwarf but it's possible... There's really nothing wrong with using Dwarf for set mules, you'll be losing power choices that can aid recharge because you'll need to spend an extra choice on def mules. You'll also have to skip out on getting some better enhancement values and helpful procs.

That being said, I just threw this together.. Doesn't even require Spiritual Core Paragon for Perma LF (though it's missing Perma IL by 1s)

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Peacebringer
Primary Power Set: Luminous Blast
Secondary Power Set: Luminous Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gleaming Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Decim-Build%(5)
Level 1: Incandescence -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(7), GA-3defTpProc(7)
Level 2: Gleaming Blast -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(11), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Essence Boost -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 6: Radiant Strike -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Dam%(19)
Level 8: Proton Scatter -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 12: Inner Light -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Luminous Detonation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(29), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), Posi-Dam%(31)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 18: Incandescent Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Reform Essence -- Panac-Heal/EndRedux(A), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Panac-Heal/Rchg(36), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(37), Panac-Heal(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(37), HO:Enzym(39)
Level 26: Solar Flare -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Armgdn-Dam%(40)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(40), HO:Enzym(42)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(42), HO:Enzym(42)
Level 32: Photon Seekers -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(43), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(43), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Restore Essence -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Light Form -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(46)
Level 44: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Shining Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(48), RctvArm-ResDam(48), RctvArm-EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Quantum Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam(50), RctvArm-EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 1: Cosmic Balance
Level 1: Energy Flight -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 10: Combat Flight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(25), HO:Enzym(25)
------------


 

Posted

Well we're not just making this stuff up

I'm at work, so no access to Mids (not to mention my latest respec tweak was done without updating my Mids file), but I absolutely have a Human-Only PB (not even using the forms as set-mules) with 153% recharge (incl, perma-Lightform, Essense Boost, and Inner Light), 85% resist to all due to Perma Lightform, and S/L def is around 42-43% (not quite capped, but plenty close enough). My recharge & S/L def was higher, but I've tweaked a bit for more damage and endurance management - I'm pleased with that little sacrifice.

I'll try to get that build posted this evening. If you're ever on Virtue and run across a PB called Socorro Starborn, that's me (my global is @KimLuster). I'd be happy to run a mish or two with ya.


 

Posted

Since you didn't say it had to be pretty or practical, here's one without the Purple/PvP IOs.

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Remember, this is just meant to show that it can be done. That was my only consideration.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

*Waits for OP to complain that these builds proving that it can be done aren't good enough*


 

Posted

Why would I do that? I find some of the power choices to be... interesting, and the order of the powers taken to be questionable for exemplaring down, but from an initial read, at least the first build is not impractical.

Expensive as hell, but the powers are at least useful.


 

Posted

Late when I got home, so I didn't post my mids build. Anyway, it's comparable to the TwoHeadedBoys. Slotting is a bit different (4 KinCbts in Rad. Strike, along with 2 Hecatombs, don't have Thermal and Quantum shield at all. The 2 heals 5-slotted with Doc. Wounds for more recharge). Min is quite expensive two. Several Purples, LotGs, and the Gladiator Def proc, but it's quite effective.

I'd add that, in addition to high def and recharge, it has 4 AoEs (5 counting incarnate) so I essentially have an unbroken AoE attack chain when fighting lots of mobs, and enough ST damage to take out a Pylon without using Incarnate Pets (I think it calculated to 175dps for ST, not sure).

I'll post it someday, but anyway, you can already see that it can be done.


 

Posted

Yeah, I got a 42.7% S/L build without Dwarf muling Kinetic Combat sets but the "no Forms" rule, which is completely arbitrary, doesn't allow me to slot the last Kinetic Combat. I do have the Glad Proc in there but it's the only ultra-expensive piece.

I would consider it "playable" but not terribly efficient.


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D3 Bible I6/ED
Bots /FF Guide

 

Posted

A human-only form is just that; Human Only.

If a build has Dwarf form in it, it is a Dual-Form build.

If a build has Nova form in it, it is a Dual-Form build.

If a build has Nova and Dwarf forms in it, it is a Tri-Form build.

Saying that the "no form powers rule" is arbitrary for a Human Only build is to disregard the definition of Human Only. When I ask for a Human Only build, I'm not asking for a Dual-Form build that you play only in Human form.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcloud View Post
Saying that the "no form powers rule" is arbitrary for a Human Only build is to disregard the definition of Human Only. When I ask for a Human Only build, I'm not asking for a Dual-Form build that you play only in Human form.
It no longer matters. The point has been made; what you didn't believe has been proven.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcloud View Post
A human-only form is just that; Human Only.

If a build has Dwarf form in it, it is a Dual-Form build.

If a build has Nova form in it, it is a Dual-Form build.

If a build has Nova and Dwarf forms in it, it is a Tri-Form build.

Saying that the "no form powers rule" is arbitrary for a Human Only build is to disregard the definition of Human Only. When I ask for a Human Only build, I'm not asking for a Dual-Form build that you play only in Human form.

I think that's a silly restriction to make. If you're going to be a purist about your Peacebringer, be a rational one. I don't see the difference between dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in boxing and dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in Dwarf Strike.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I think that's a silly restriction to make. If you're going to be a purist about your Peacebringer, be a rational one. I don't see the difference between dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in boxing and dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in Dwarf Strike.
It's understandable from a role players perspective, I suppose. I don't role play, but I can certainly understand a choice made for concept even though it gimps the build a bit.

That said, I'm unsure if that is the reason the OP decided to make that statement, considering the argumentative stance he took on this thread, and the thread that lead to the creation of this one.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I think that's a silly restriction to make. If you're going to be a purist about your Peacebringer, be a rational one. I don't see the difference between dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in boxing and dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in Dwarf Strike.
Precisely. Taking Dwarf to mule sets, and never use it, is fundamentally no different than taking any other power to mule a set. It's a means to an end, not a play style, which is what Dual-/Tri-Forms are. Taking a power doesn't force you to use it so why should you be defined by it?

And has been said, it's been shown that it's possible to do exactly what you asked for in OP without taking Dwarf/Nova powers so the point is moot anyway.


D3 Bible I6/ED
Bots /FF Guide

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackestNight View Post
Yeah, I got a 42.7% S/L build without Dwarf muling Kinetic Combat sets but the "no Forms" rule, which is completely arbitrary, doesn't allow me to slot the last Kinetic Combat. I do have the Glad Proc in there but it's the only ultra-expensive piece.

I would consider it "playable" but not terribly efficient.
I have 5 kinetics in mine (Radiant, Incandescent, Brawl, Boxing, Kick) - the downside is I can't load a full Hecatomb set in anything (but 4 Kinetics + 2 Hecatombs in Radiant and it performs fine). I did this not because of some "I.Will.Not.Pick.A.Form.For.Any.Reason" Rule but because I feel I don't really waste any slots with my current selections. Brawl is a Free Slot and Kick/Boxing are necessary to get Weave, whereas Dwarf isn't free nor does it prerequisite anything else.

Yes, Toughness can be used to get weave, but with a single slot in Shining Shield (holding a +Def proc) combined with Perm. Lightform I'm Resist-capped to everything except Psi, so why bother - take Boxing and Weave for Kinetics then get Weave.

It feels very efficient with nothing wasted.

Edit: I recently got the Vet Rez Power, so I'm gonna give up my PB Rez, slot Dwarf, move some slots around, and in the process raise my global recharge from 153% to 173%, plus the extra accuracy and endurance management they provide. So, even though Dwarf will never be played, I suppose I'll be breaking the OP's silly 'no forms for any reason' rule.

Wow, I'll have 5 Kinetics Combats sets in Powers that I'll literally never use. Heh


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon View Post
It's understandable from a role players perspective, I suppose. I don't role play, but I can certainly understand a choice made for concept even though it gimps the build a bit.
I'm a roleplayer and I find it silly. If it's not used, why does it matter?

I imagine this is simply an attempt to prove an irrelevant point.


's doesn't make things plural.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackestNight View Post
Yeah, I got a 42.7% S/L build without Dwarf muling Kinetic Combat sets but the "no Forms" rule, which is completely arbitrary, doesn't allow me to slot the last Kinetic Combat.
Here's a slight adjustment that gets you to 45%.

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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
I have 5 kinetics in mine (Radiant, Incandescent, Brawl, Boxing, Kick) -


Wow, I'll have 5 Kinetics Combats sets in Powers that I'll literally never use. Heh
Do you really need the extra 25% run and flight speed? That's all the fifth slot in Kinetic Combat gives you. If you drop those to 4 slots each you'll keep your defense and free up 5 slots to use elsewhere.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I think that's a silly restriction to make. If you're going to be a purist about your Peacebringer, be a rational one. I don't see the difference between dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in boxing and dropping a kinetic combat set you'll never use in Dwarf Strike.
You're missing the point, it's not a restriction. If you need to utilize forms to meet your objective, then your build is not all human. Mule or not it does not matter.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death_Adder View Post
Do you really need the extra 25% run and flight speed? That's all the fifth slot in Kinetic Combat gives you. If you drop those to 4 slots each you'll keep your defense and free up 5 slots to use elsewhere.
I only have each 4-slotted. I agree the 5th is pretty much a waste


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
You're missing the point, it's not a restriction. If you need to utilize forms to meet your objective, then your build is not all human. Mule or not it does not matter.
'Spirit' vs. 'Letter' of the Law. You're going by the letter. But if I literally never use forms for any reason, even if I have them, then from my perspective, the 'spirit', I play 'Human Only. If we want to continue splitting hairs, you can't deny I'm playing 'Human Only' from this point of view.

But heck, several human-only builds 'by the letter' have been presented, so both points has been made.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
You're missing the point, it's not a restriction. If you need to utilize forms to meet your objective, then your build is not all human. Mule or not it does not matter.

Both of my Khelds take dwarf for the set bonus mules when making an effective human only build. For Peacebringers, you get 2 free Kinetic Combat mules, a freee BOTZ KB mule, a free Winter's Gift mule, and Dwarf itself is a free mule for steadfast KB or +3% defense. For Warshades, you get all that plus an extra Kinetic Combat mule. All for one power choice.

If you notice the first build I posted, which did softcap s/l defense, cap all resists w/ perma LF, and had no gimped or missing essential powers, I had to take 2 resist shields to mule Reactive Armor sets. Sure, it meets this strange concept of "purity," but it also took 2 power choices to get significantly less of a statistical advantage than the one power choice that is Dwarf. Skipping Dwarf is really just wasteful and inefficient build planning.


 

Posted

Of course one could make the argument that using Light Form disqualifies your build from being Human Form Only.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneko View Post
Of course one could make the argument that using Light Form disqualifies your build from being Human Form Only.
that was old Lightform; now it's just an aura


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
that was old Lightform; now it's just an aura
That's just the appearance, which was only changed because some people didn't want to be perma-wispy.


'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.

 

Posted

I am sure there are lots of areas for improvement (the build currently has no Accolades or Incarnate powers applied), but aside from the Gladiator's +3, there are no Purples or PvPs.

Items I can think of from the jump:
Endurance consumption. None of the Defense toggles are slotted for reduction (Weave, Maneuvers, Combat Jumping and Combat Flight). Conserve Energy is underslotted.

Offense. No Dawn Strike or any of the other AoE-type attacks from Luminous Blast. Hasten is not perma without Incarnate help or going Purple.

Resistance. S/L resistance runs at ~82%, but if 85 is absolutely necessary, Tough can be taken in place of Assault (this option also allows for slotting the Gladiator's in Tough and freeing a slot in Incandescence). With S/L Defense softcapped, I did not figure it to be an issue, and went for a little more offense. F/C runs at about 84.5. Left it be.

Overall, playable, but if you are going to Mainline PB, put some more inf into it and very strongly reconsider taking Dwarf for some of the slot mules it allows.

But for the sake of the exercise, my attempt for the board's review:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Peacebringer
Primary Power Set: Luminous Blast
Secondary Power Set: Luminous Aura
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Glinting Eye -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(31), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Incandescence -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(17)
Level 2: Gleaming Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Essence Boost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal(36), Dct'dW-Rchg(37)
Level 6: Radiant Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 8: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 12: Inner Light -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(21), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 14: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 18: Incandescent Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 22: Reform Essence -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(37), Dct'dW-Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 24: Conserve Energy -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Solar Flare -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Quantum Acceleration -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 32: Photon Seekers -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(43), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 38: Light Form -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(39), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Spring Attack -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(42), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 44: Jump Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), EndMod-I(5), EndMod-I(15)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Cosmic Balance
Level 1: Energy Flight -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 10: Combat Flight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
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Edited to add: Post 669. Significant because the letters in my full name have this count. Purely Kicks and Grins.


11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?