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I'm not saying Kinetic Combats are bad...just ridiculously pricey. I came to the forums looking for human-only and generally what I see are builds in excess of the 2 bill inf cap it seems (for example, your builds, while nice, are FULL of purples, which frankly I couldn't afford, it's just not feasible for me to earn that kind of Inf).|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
If you think Kinetic Combats are bad (and only 4 of them at that) you are probably in the wrong thread. You certainly shouldn't be expecting to softcap a human form (Perma LF) Peacebringer if you don't have Kinetic Combat money... Wait til you see the price tags on the other stuff.
To address your question though, this thread is also discussing Perma Light Form, which generally will cap resists to all damage, making the shields largely unnecessary from a practical standpoint. Fighting is a no brainer for builds like this.. If you are having trouble working it in that is probably due to your price constraints. |
It's a bit intimidating to be someone new to PBs, look for builds to help me determine what to pick up at what level and then see figures like what I see in these builds tossed at me.
I guess I'm just looking for help walking the path, not just reaching the end destination. But I'm not sure I'll find it here. Sorry to derail the thread.
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Haha yeah, you just came to the wrong thread. There has been some discussion about making effective human only builds on lower budgets.|
Originally Posted by Issen
I'm not saying Kinetic Combats are bad...just ridiculously pricey. I came to the forums looking for human-only and generally what I see are builds in excess of the 2 bill inf cap it seems (for example, your builds, while nice, are FULL of purples, which frankly I couldn't afford, it's just not feasible for me to earn that kind of Inf).
It's a bit intimidating to be someone new to PBs, look for builds to help me determine what to pick up at what level and then see figures like what I see in these builds tossed at me. |
What this player came up with might be of interest to you- It's not 'high budget,' in that it doesn't use purples/pvp's. I don't think I can help you with the hurdle presented by rare IO's though, besides suggesting that you run tips for them.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=277906
How's this build look? It uses no PvP IO's, no purps, but it's soft-capped to S/L with perma-everything(with t4 Spiritual Core, nearly there with t3). Five sets of KC will probably run a lot, but I figured on substituting the most expensive IO in the KC set with the inexpensive knockdown IO for those "mule" attacks.
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If you wanted to plan ahead, and had the points for it, you could have purchased the Kinetic Combat sets while they were discounted for the Black Friday sale. I debated it, but instead spent mine on several LotG +Def/+Global Rech IOs.
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I've been playing with human-only vs Tri-Form builds and couldn't resist the challenge. Here's a human-only build with no Purples or PVP IO's. It uses 5 LotG's and 5 Kinetic Combat sets which will cost about 800m, roughly equivalent to 1-2 purples (single IO's, not sets) and less than half of a Gladiator +3. It has +45% S/L defense, 85% resistance for all but Psionic and is perma-LF,IL,EB. The build uses Musculature Alpha for more DPS and endurance.
Personally, I would actually trade some of the S/L defense for more balanced defense and/or more DPS by slotting some procs in Bolt, RS, and IS, and I'd take Assault over a Tactics mule.
Since I haven't played a human-only build, what exactly is the allure of having S/L defense capped anyway? With greater DPS and -Res procs I might kill the energy critter in front of me that's debuffing my defenses and still have time to go save a capped S/L PB nearby before he dies.
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Well the idea is that you use purples to build your recharge/proc your attack chain, and you have plenty of recharge and a glad 3% to save slots so you do not need to sacrifice damage output or -res proc slotting, while benefiting tremendously from the extra survivability of the softcap to most attacks in the game.
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Originally Posted by Shining_Path
Since I haven't played a human-only build, what exactly is the allure of having S/L defense capped anyway? With greater DPS and -Res procs I might kill the energy critter in front of me that's debuffing my defenses and still have time to go save a capped S/L PB nearby before he dies.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well the idea is that you use purples to build your recharge/proc your attack chain, and you have plenty of recharge and a glad 3% to save slots so you do not need to sacrifice damage output or -res proc slotting, while benefiting tremendously from the extra survivability of the softcap to most attacks in the game.
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I believe that for most of us casual players the idea is to have a reasonably inexpensive build that doesn't require that we spend forever playing the market or doing TFs just to be reasonable. That usually means no purples or pvp sets. This fits the bill nearly perfectly and is reasonably attainable with a modest amount of effort. 2 thumbs up!
Now, I'd like to see a tri-form that follows that pattern just cause I like the forms. :-)
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Lumin (D4,50), Caelestes Lux (PB,50), Corpus Operandi (MM,50)
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Originally Posted by nivho
I believe that for most of us casual players the idea is to have a reasonably inexpensive build that doesn't require that we spend forever playing the market or doing TFs just to be reasonable. That usually means no purples or pvp sets. This fits the bill nearly perfectly and is reasonably attainable with a modest amount of effort. 2 thumbs up!
Now, I'd like to see a tri-form that follows that pattern just cause I like the forms. :-) |
I was talking about maximizing human form effectiveness, retaining optimal damage output and survivability. Sorry if this was not what was being asked, it just seemed like it was.
Actually, the main point of my post was to show that it is in fact possible to achieve perma-* and a s/l defense cap with a human-only build that is reasonably playable (i.e., does not have Kinetic Combat sets in five of the powers) and that is attainable by a much larger percentage of the community (the 99%, if you will :-)) that cannot do task forces 24/7 to generate the kind of capital you have. I would also submit that my build appears to have a higher aggregate DPS than several of the purple builds I've seen here and better endurance recovery to sustain the DPS.
My question was was specifically asking why achieving a S/L defense cap was so important given capped resistance and a very good heal and given that many AVs do other than S/L damage. I would aim for more balanced defense (or at least melee vs s/l though they usually come together) and more dps/-res/control to kill the bad guys faster.
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I think that was what was asked for and your build and SP's build both gave great responses that using different criteria. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I was talking about maximizing human form effectiveness, retaining optimal damage output and survivability. Sorry if this was not what was being asked, it just seemed like it was.
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I'm sure that the more expensive sets can be used to tweak builds to "maximize effectiveness". *For me*, those type of builds are a fun mental exercise but I have to be able to afford a build in order to maximize it. If I can't afford it, then there's no build to maximize. :-)
If I had deep pockets, I might go with a purples-out set but my general restriction is to never plan a build using purples. If I get a purple drop, then I'll adjust my build appropriately (nothing against purples!). I just can't plan a build that requires that level of affluence.
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Lumin (D4,50), Caelestes Lux (PB,50), Corpus Operandi (MM,50)
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Totally understandable. Gotta live within your means!|
Originally Posted by nivho
I think that was what was asked for and your build and SP's build both gave great responses that using different criteria.
I'm sure that the more expensive sets can be used to tweak builds to "maximize effectiveness". *For me*, those type of builds are a fun mental exercise but I have to be able to afford a build in order to maximize it. If I can't afford it, then there's no build to maximize. :-) If I had deep pockets, I might go with a purples-out set but my general restriction is to never plan a build using purples. If I get a purple drop, then I'll adjust my build appropriately (nothing against purples!). I just can't plan a build that requires that level of affluence. |
To be honest, the only characters I've ever invested the time and money it takes to get purples on was my Khelds... All of my other 50s have "normal" sets/builds....
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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I didn't look at your build but without purple procs your DPS is going to suffer by default. My build runs Strike>Blast>Bolt with ideal slotting, there's really no conceivable way to top it that I can think of.|
Originally Posted by Shining_Path
Actually, the main point of my post was to show that it is in fact possible to achieve perma-* and a s/l defense cap with a human-only build that is reasonably playable (i.e., does not have Kinetic Combat sets in five of the powers) and that is attainable by a much larger percentage of the community (the 99%, if you will :-)) that cannot do task forces 24/7 to generate the kind of capital you have. I would also submit that my build appears to have a higher aggregate DPS than several of the purple builds I've seen here and better endurance recovery to sustain the DPS.
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I was just replying to your comment of "what is the point of defense if you have to sacrifice x thing?" and my answer was that if you invest enough into your character you can have both.
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| My question was was specifically asking why achieving a S/L defense cap was so important given capped resistance and a very good heal and given that many AVs do other than S/L damage. I would aim for more balanced defense (or at least melee vs s/l though they usually come together) and more dps/-res/control to kill the bad guys faster. |
I only use -res procs in my ST attack chain on my current build because I am comfortable enough with my AOE output without them there. The -res is serving its best purpose against hard single targets, imo.
As for control, unfortunately Pulsar is such a low mag stun that I find it's not even worth the power choice. I could see muling it for Absolute Amazement, but with good defense, perma capped resists, ideal damage output, and insane HP I would hardly find it useful.
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LOL That's so true. I am one of those players who hates the concept of the market and bidding on things to get "that perfect set". The husband has to do any market bidding that I want cause I just don't have the patience. It's too much like work for me to find it enjoyable... However, I'll gladly spend 2 hours in the costume creator!
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Totally understandable. Gotta live within your means!
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Lumin (D4,50), Caelestes Lux (PB,50), Corpus Operandi (MM,50)
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Originally Posted by nivho
LOL That's so true. I am one of those players who hates the concept of the market and bidding on things to get "that perfect set". The husband has to do any market bidding that I want cause I just don't have the patience. It's too much like work for me to find it enjoyable... However, I'll gladly spend 2 hours in the costume creator!
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For me, my Kheldians are just my absolute favorite characters so I am willing to invest heavily in them to get the best performance I can. I am an altaholic in reverse, I play 4 or 5 characters max. I have my Warshade, my Peacebringer, and my SS/Fire Brute taking up about 95% of my game time. My Brute serves the obvious purpose of being able to constantly generate income. He is also on a big server so he's able to get a lot of trials and save up Empyrean merits.
I made most of my last fortune by leaving lowball bids on purples and flipping them for 100 million profit or more per piece, spending about 5 minutes a day on the market.. But the in game economy has been sort of strange lately so I've had to rely more heavily on my Brute.
I simply don't have the powerslots available. And is taking the resist shields really such a bad thing? I mean, not everyone can afford 4 sets of Kinetic Combat IOs.
If you think Kinetic Combats are bad (and only 4 of them at that) you are probably in the wrong thread. You certainly shouldn't be expecting to softcap a human form (Perma LF) Peacebringer if you don't have Kinetic Combat money... Wait til you see the price tags on the other stuff.
To address your question though, this thread is also discussing Perma Light Form, which generally will cap resists to all damage, making the shields largely unnecessary from a practical standpoint.
Fighting is a no brainer for builds like this.. If you are having trouble working it in that is probably due to your price constraints.