NCSoft Layoffs... or DOOOOMMMM
By
Alexandria2000,
Posted on: 2011-10-27 10:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Aion was, and still is, a good game. They addressed several issues and it started to pick up after they made some changes. But the game was built on the Korean "pay-per-hour" model and it didn't translate over to the NA/EU monthly subscription model.
The thing with Aion, though there is a lot of solo content, is that it was built for faction gameplay. In the NA/EU we're been brought up with "mine, mine, mine.. I don't care about others, I want to be uber awesome!" In Korea, the mindset is different.
Instead of focusing on player rewards, they play for faction dominance. Then, once the faction (Elyos or Asmodian) is on top, they all work to help each other to be powerful for the next time they battle the faction looking to take back what they lost.
I've played Aion since the first wave of NA closed beta back in '09. I've seen numerous friends leave because they weren't used to the playstyle. I don't blame them either. It's hard to get anywhere in that game unless you have a powerful clique behind you.
In the latest patch they added the much requested PVP arenas because it was hard to PVP in the PVPVE zones. You either didn't find any opponents, as many people were PVE'ing in "safe" areas, or you'd get slaughtered by a horde of players from the opposing faction that teleported into your home world.
At first, the idea of invading the enemy territory was cool. It was you and a limited amount of people porting in and trying to gain points by killing anyone ypou came across. But, most people you were attacking were PVE'ing and you kept them from completing their PVE tasks. So the developers added buffs and debuffs to certain PVPVE zones, thereby making it more difficult to attack and kill someone on their home soil.
Since the selling point of the game was being able to attack people in their homeworld, tons of people left because they weren't able to play as the game was originally designed. Since the people that left were mostly PvP'ers, the actual full PVP zones slowly died off since no one was around.
Last year it was rumored that Korea would have a more heavy hand when it came to Aion in the NA/EU regions. This looks to be the case now.
In Korea, there are daily GM events where players can earn actual prizes from the GM's. That was something that the NA/EU game lacked, mostly because NA/EU didn't have much staff. NA/EU was kept from having any of the cool new features that Korea got because there wasn't enough staff to supply it.
If Korea does take it over, fully, then I do see it improving. There will be more staff to take care of RMT, more staff to deliver events with rare prizes, and having the ability to play with others in the mindset of playing for faction, not for self, will vastly improve the game.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
Also, I do understand why some people would get tired out on the PVP aspect of the game. But I don't agree with changing it to PVP servers or PVP flags. The game was designed FOR full-world PVP. That was the selling point from day 1. The game was made for people that wanted more PVP than PVE.
That would be like coming to COH and telling them "Hey, I'm not going to play unless you make every zone full PVP."
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Auction house prices... not as big a deal. |
Originally Posted by Alexandria2000
I know I would probably still be there if there'd been PVP optional servers, with a tweak that allowed more soloing of content. And ye gods, fix those prices in the auction house!
I miss my crazy little Gladiator.  |
Regular mission item prices? Or level 30 wings? Ugh. And then there's trying to get a full set of flash armor... that was just insane. At least they finally (as in a few months ago?) put a teleporter between the main (I can't even remember the name) "capital" and that distant island... where they had some contacts... and you had to wait forever for that blasted air-boat-thing.
Of course, as a ... I think preorder, might have been early vet, I had better wings free (at 30.) Which was, IMHO, somewhat unfair.
I'm not honestly sure PVP optional servers would really *work* for that game, given some of what various quests involved. If they actually did something like that, they'd have to keep you from being able to transfer between the two types. I couldn't see getting the gold siege (or whatever they were called) medals on the PVE servers - the guardian deities aren't *that* big of a threat on their own, for instance, and past certain points, NPCs are just farmables in the Abyss. Not to mention missions there that change depending on who has control of certain areas (which are, IMHO, also irritating... especially when you have to rescue prisoners, but your faction controls the island that mission is on for *months* at a time... so you can't ever complete it.)
Also, an Asmodean. Loved the hat. Can't remember just what she was any more, though. Just that she hit people with a stick.
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The best time for going after the level 30 Daevanian armor was during their double XP months. Pop a Lodas Amulet then get 20% more XP. Level an alt up to 25, by crafting, then take them to the Abyss to level up. Leveling to 30 in the Abyss helped because Daeva Armor has a chance to drop from the monsters there. So you could easily get 2 pieces of the set to drop and make it faster.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Auction house prices... not as big a deal.
Regular mission item prices? Or level 30 wings? Ugh. And then there's trying to get a full set of flash armor... that was just insane. At least they finally (as in a few months ago?) put a teleporter between the main (I can't even remember the name) "capital" and that distant island... where they had some contacts... and you had to wait forever for that blasted air-boat-thing. Of course, as a ... I think preorder, might have been early vet, I had better wings free (at 30.) Which was, IMHO, somewhat unfair. I'm not honestly sure PVP optional servers would really *work* for that game, given some of what various quests involved. If they actually did something like that, they'd have to keep you from being able to transfer between the two types. I couldn't see getting the gold siege (or whatever they were called) medals on the PVE servers - the guardian deities aren't *that* big of a threat on their own, for instance, and past certain points, NPCs are just farmables in the Abyss. Not to mention missions there that change depending on who has control of certain areas (which are, IMHO, also irritating... especially when you have to rescue prisoners, but your faction controls the island that mission is on for *months* at a time... so you can't ever complete it.) Also, an Asmodean. Loved the hat. Can't remember just what she was any more, though. Just that she hit people with a stick. |
I spent most of the first year getting all 4 type sets of Daeva armor just because I wanted them all and didn't want to pay to convert them and lose the manastone/enchanement stone socketting. That and the pieces were dyed white, and at that time, white dye was as rare as the armor itself.
Also, for PVP armor, it's much easier to get now. If you do the new PVP arenas, you earn two types of currency that you can turn in for the Eternal (orange) grade PVP armor. You don't need to spend months collecing Abyss Points to buy armor. In 6 days, doing 2 PVP arenas a day, I was able to buy a piece of Eternal PVP armor. So you can get a full set in a months time. The weapons, however, are more expensive. Might take 3 weeks to get enough to buy the weapons.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
Poorly adapted to the western market. Failure.
In a way, the opposite of CoH's move into the Asian market.
The pvp crowd is loud, but I think they tend to overestimate their numbers. And they fail to take into account the number of people that style of play drives off. Some parts of Aion were really beautiful, but it wasn't suited to my preferences. It was kinda neat to see castoff parts of the early Tabula Rasa showing up in that game though.
Rend this space....
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Well, here's the thing. It was advertised as PVPVE. The PVP was put forward very heavily... so someone not that interested in that style of game, well.... it's like someone who doesn't like shooters picking up Modern Warfare, or someone who hates RTS buying Starcraft II - what else would they be expecting?
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Originally Posted by Rocket_Bob
The pvp crowd is loud, but I think they tend to overestimate their numbers. And they fail to take into account the number of people that style of play drives off.
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Paragon Studios not effected? CHECK! YAY! That's the most important thing.
Now, to the secon dmost important thing. Is this going to hurt my chances to see Blade & Soul come to NA and play it?
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The BrandX Collection
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I didn't mind the PvP, honestly. My sorcerer gave as good as he got when it came to that sort of thing. What I hated was the game allowing higher level griefers to rift into lower level zones with what amounted to an automated slap on the wrist.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Well, here's the thing. It was advertised as PVPVE. The PVP was put forward very heavily... so someone not that interested in that style of game, well.... it's like someone who doesn't like shooters picking up Modern Warfare, or someone who hates RTS buying Starcraft II - what else would they be expecting?
|
I didn't resent the similarly-leveled Ranger who made a game out of trying to stalk Kae while I was out collecting crafting materials, or even the guys who would wait until I was in the middle of a fight with some critter to try a hit-and-run. I expected to have to deal with that kind of thing, and it was fun.
Having a group of six who were obviously more than a few levels higher than me rift in and gank Kae while I was talking to a PvE mission contact... and then stay there camping that contact to flatten anyone else who came near them? THAT ticked me off. And that kind of crap happened all the time.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
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Speaking in general: Sometimes it absolutely feels like businesses are not going to stop until there is not one job left in this country. |
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
NCSoft has initiated mass layoffs at their North American offices.
Here's hoping everyone at Paragon Studios is still safely employed. |
It'll be interesting to see who is subbing to stuff like online games when that rolls around, but I digress.
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What about our QA folk? GM Loyd and Tex et al.?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just as an FYI to our Community,
Paragon Studios was not affected by the reorganization and both Paragon Studios and NCsoft remain committed to the development of City of Heroes Freedom. Thanks! -Z |
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Oh, I agree with that, absolutely. That was one of the issues (and, honestly, it happened the other way too - try to do a rift mission on a level 20-21 more than a minute after the rift appeared, walk into a squad of high levels just camping the rift.) They needed SOME sort of balance there.|
Originally Posted by Bright
I didn't mind the PvP, honestly. My sorcerer gave as good as he got when it came to that sort of thing. What I hated was the game allowing higher level griefers to rift into lower level zones with what amounted to an automated slap on the wrist.
I didn't resent the similarly-leveled Ranger who made a game out of trying to stalk Kae while I was out collecting crafting materials, or even the guys who would wait until I was in the middle of a fight with some critter to try a hit-and-run. I expected to have to deal with that kind of thing, and it was fun. Having a group of six who were obviously more than a few levels higher than me rift in and gank Kae while I was talking to a PvE mission contact... and then stay there camping that contact to flatten anyone else who came near them? THAT ticked me off. And that kind of crap happened all the time. |
Admittedly, at least while I played, a quick callout on the global channel with a ping on location would get a rush of high levels out to fight them off.
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If you go far enough East, you'll end up in the West!|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
So to put a greater focus on Western-developed games... they're moving positions back East?
 |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Why are you so surprised that a Korean company is moving jobs to Korea? |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Speaking in general: Sometimes it absolutely feels like businesses are not going to stop until there is not one job left in this country.
It'll be interesting to see who is subbing to stuff like online games when that rolls around, but I digress. |
They're just doing what we've wanted American companies to do for years, and they are somehow wrong for doing so?
I get your point, but you chose a very strange example to make it with.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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QFT. Look at virtually any MMO that has PVP rules that vary by server and see what kind of activity the dedicated PVP servers get compared to the rest.|
Originally Posted by Rocket_Bob
The pvp crowd is loud, but I think they tend to overestimate their numbers.
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PS I don't have anything against people who like to PVP (I do myself on occasion) but they do tend to fit better in FPS or Simulator games than in RPGs.
_________
@Inquisitor
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Great to hear.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just as an FYI to our Community,
Paragon Studios was not affected by the reorganization and both Paragon Studios and NCsoft remain committed to the development of City of Heroes Freedom. Thanks! -Z |
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
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We luv ya, Zwill!
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just as an FYI to our Community,
Paragon Studios was not affected by the reorganization and both Paragon Studios and NCsoft remain committed to the development of City of Heroes Freedom. Thanks! -Z |
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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From what I've seen, the problem isn't the popularity of PvP, the problem is that I've not seen any MMO balance the concerns of PvE and the concerns of PvP, because they appear to be incompatible. You can make a successful MMO that focuses on PvE with a marginal PvP environment. You can make a successful MMO that focuses on PvP with a marginal PvE environment. I don't think you can make a successful MMO that balances the two, or at least the recipe for doing so hasn't been invented yet.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
QFT. Look at virtually any MMO that has PVP rules that vary by server and see what kind of activity the dedicated PVP servers get compared to the rest.
PS I don't have anything against people who like to PVP (I do myself on occasion) but they do tend to fit better in FPS or Simulator games than in RPGs. |
I think at least one fundamental difference that is inconceivable how to bridge is that a good PvE game tries to create an attachment between players and characters. The tools for doing this tend to make characters immutable in many ways, and have a certain permanence to their strengths and weaknesses. They try to be representative avatars for the player's desires and personality.
In PvP, the avatar is more of a projection of the player's aggression. Its the tool by which the player expresses his combat ability. By its very nature, it needs to be flexible to reflect the changing skills and knowledge and tactical acumen of the player. There's no connection between player and character (or at least character properties) that isn't transitory by the very nature of the transitory nature of a player's combat requirements. The character can have a face and a backstory that is permanent, but the way he fights and with what he fights with must be mutable to serve properly as a reflection of the tactical desires of the player.
This one difference radically alters how a game treats content, powers, respecification, alts, progression. It changes everything. And the game can only serve one master, and it will tend to attract players based on which one it chooses.
This seems to be an intractable problematic difference. I think many of the other differences trace their lineage back to this one.
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Perhaps I'm getting less patient about such mmo nonsense as I get older in age.
That, and a certain affection for Kae himself... Sorcerers had some interesting powers and effects, and I took some satisfaction out of having the firepower to blast the crap out of rifters who saw him as an "easy kill".
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...