Rage Defense


BrandX

 

Posted

RAGE DEFENSE (biserker, so I'm told)

The resistance for the set would be Smashing 80% with full taunt only 20% with taunt off. L/F/I/E/N 60% psy 20%

1) Controlled rage: [auto] *+special (as <(BASE)> health decreases, HP/regen/damage) Full controlled rage bonuses: The HP bonus would be 50% of HPs and regen bonus would be as high as a regen scrapper with instant healing on. about 150 HP per sec at 33% health.

The HP/rage scale is formed like this [( base hp )(rage hp)] Meaning, if your base HP is 2000 and your to "controlled rage" TOTAL HP is 3000. If you're damaged for 100 HP, you're HP go up by 50.

2) Aggravation: [toggle] res S/L/F/I res to stun

3) rage fuel: [auto] end/HP buff, res to end drain and recovery/regen debuff

4) focused rage: [toggle] res L/E/N/psy, res placate/fear/-tohit/hold/immoblize

5) can't back down: [toggle] taunt 5% Smashing resistance per enemy reduce secondary effects by 10%

6) short temper: [click] minor self heal, build 50% controlled rage bar (dam/regen/HP) for 5 sec

7) beating heart: [auto] F/I/E/N res, res to slow, recharge debuff

8) rage stomp: [click] with fast recharge low endurance cost. built up rage can be used in PBAoE attack (scale of damage is 1 at full health, to 200 at full rage)

9) uncontrollable rage: [click] Full rage buff, this would cap the dam/health/HP bonuses, cap all res except toxic, and def at 45% unenhanced When it crashes: loose all health/end (like electic armor), recovery debuff for 5 sec, PBAoE fear.


It is a "take damage" based set, that being said, S/L resistance could be capped with IO enhancements, and all resistance, except toxic, would be around (tanker) 50% . It's weaknesses are: The damage/health/HP bonus requires being hit, toxic damage, and no def debuff resistance. BTW,The attack set would still do it's normal damage at full health

For those that think you'll hate healers ... if a healer healed this set for 100 HP ... he would loose 50 HP of rage bonus. Affectively resisting 50% of the heal. So, He wouldn't entirely hate healers. healers would hate him :P But, if the healer healed him when his health was lower than the rage HP bonus, he would get the full effect and he still wouldn't care.

For those that want the health bonuses to count like the rage bar ... I wouldn't. If it did that, the rage would build then crash, build then crash. and would make it a not very dependable defense.


updated.

This would be a damage/health/HP version of SR with the health dependant regen


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigman View Post
RAGE DEFENSE
1) Aggravation: res S/L minor ToHit debuff
2) rage fuel: recovery buff minor ToHit debuff
3) focused rage: status protection, res psy minor ToHit debuff
4) can't back down: kb/kd protection S/L/E/N res minor ToHit debuff
5) Controlled rage: AoE taunt*+special (as health decreases HP/regen/dam is buffed if killed rage is released in a PBAoE fit of rage)
6) short temper: minor self heal, build 50%rage bar (regen/dam)
7) beating heart: F/I res minor ToHit debuff
8) rage stomp: built up rage can be used in PBAoE (all rage is used up and any regen built up is lost
9) uncontrollable rage: reduces health to 100 (full rage, full dam/regen bonus) all res caped def 45%

It's first notable weakness is the ToHit debuff, also getting hit is required to do effective damage. The set also has no res to -end -regen -tohit -dam. If he was fighting a mission of dark (CoT) he would be about as useful and a SO stone tank in granite form.

That being said, S/L res would be capped with enhancements, and all others would be around 60-80% res. It's only reakness is secondaries and the tohit debuff

What do you think?
Truthfully, I don't understand most of what your going for with this write up.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

The concept is that the build itself is more suvivable than anything other normal defencive set (provided toggles remain active). Near cap resistance to all and as you take damage your regen, HP and damage is increased. The "rage" is guaged based on a percentage of your BASE HP (not enhanced or the new HP ammount added by the loss of health).

So, the sets power relies on being hit, but that is also it's weakness. It has no resistance to -regen, -end, -damage, -tohit, end drain.
It might need some tweaking ... I'm open to options


 

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I don't know coding ... will this set cause a problem?


 

Posted

firstly the set would be ridiculously easy to kill as soon as the tier 9 was popped, 100 hp is nothing, most lvl 50 minions can hit for that much, even with capped resist and regen a AV can hit you for 10x that, 2 shots and you would be dead even with capped resist

secondly if your going for a hulk type of theme just make super strength/wp or super strength/regen and you get the same effect


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
firstly the set would be ridiculously easy to kill as soon as the tier 9 was popped, 100 hp is nothing, most lvl 50 minions can hit for that much, even with capped resist and regen a AV can hit you for 10x that, 2 shots and you would be dead even with capped resist

secondly if your going for a hulk type of theme just make super strength/wp or super strength/regen and you get the same effect
Recommended changes are welcome ... also, you can still slot for defence still if you like.

I'll make the wording correction in the build ...


 

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Build info has been updated


 

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I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.

 

Posted

Yes, I know about IOs. It was humor. Go with it.


I used to fiddle with my back feet music for a black onyx. My entire room absorbed every echo. The music was . . . thud like. The music was . . . thud like. I usually played such things as rough-neck and thug. Opaque melodies that would bug most people. Music from the other side of the fence.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigman View Post

So, the sets power relies on being hit, but that is also it's weakness. It has no resistance to -regen, -end, -damage, -tohit, end drain.
It might need some tweaking ... I'm open to options
This means death. Crushing, painful, agonising and un-fun death. Fighting Mu, Clockwork or Carnies? Bye bye Endurance. Fighting CoT? Bye bye To-Hit.

I...honestly don't see anything here that Invul or Willpower couldn't do already and do *better*.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
This means death. Crushing, painful, agonising and un-fun death. Fighting Mu, Clockwork or Carnies? Bye bye Endurance. Fighting CoT? Bye bye To-Hit.

I...honestly don't see anything here that Invul or Willpower couldn't do already and do *better*.
I have a couple ideas to counter these problems

1) Let's make drops that when you click them they give you a boost to different things ... like tohit , end, health, res, def. I think I'll call them inspirations XD

2) Maybe they should allow you to have multiple sets for fighting different things. We could make one build for def, one for HP/regen, and one for a big buff to ACC

All wishful thinking I guess, the Devs would never make those possible

[Being sarcastice in case the reader didn't notice]


 

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Interesting ideas... but I'm not sure what space this is supposed to fill thematically. You mentioned a Hulk-like theme in your second post, but the Hulk isn't protected by his anger, he's protected by his superhuman toughness and healing factor. (Those in turn increase with his anger, true, as do all of his powers, but in game terms that would just be his Fury bar. An undamaged Hulk is certainly not a calm Hulk.) SS/WP Brute already captures the Hulk very well, I think.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigman View Post
Sorry, Hulk without rage is bruce banner meaning no resistant skin, no strength. Your logic is flawed.
Indeed, and bullets don't bounce off Superman if he doesn't have some absorbed sunlight to run on, but he would just be /Invuln, not /Solar Defense. The source of the powers and the actual powers are not the same thing.

But anyway, I'm not sure a set that varies in effectiveness with current health, while also having +regen effects, would work out well in actual play. If your health is going up and down all the time, the Hulk ends up pretty bipolar. Empaths would also probably be miffed when you ask them not to heal you. If it could somehow be "damage taken recently" or "number of hits taken recently" it might work better, so that healing back the damage doesn't remove the bonuses?

The other problem I see with this set is that its -tohit penalty might pair TOO well with Super Strength because of the +tohit in Rage. I'm assuming the -tohit is supposed to be a meaningful drawback, but SS/ could totally circumvent it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigman View Post
I have a couple ideas to counter these problems

1) Let's make drops that when you click them they give you a boost to different things ... like tohit , end, health, res, def. I think I'll call them inspirations XD

2) Maybe they should allow you to have multiple sets for fighting different things. We could make one build for def, one for HP/regen, and one for a big buff to ACC

All wishful thinking I guess, the Devs would never make those possible

[Being sarcastice in case the reader didn't notice]
Yes, because a set that is totally gimped when it's not using Inspirations every mob is totally balanced and fair. Hmm, I can see where I'm so blindly wrong here-

Owait.

Let's have a detailed break down, shall we?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigman View Post
RAGE DEFENSE
1) Aggravation: res S/L minor ToHit debuff
2) rage fuel: recovery buff minor ToHit debuff
3) focused rage: status protection, res psy minor ToHit debuff
4) can't back down: kb/kd protection S/L/E/N res minor ToHit debuff
5) Controlled rage: AoE taunt*+special (as health decreases HP/regen/dam is buffed if killed rage is released in a PBAoE fit of rage)
6) short temper: minor self heal, build 50%rage bar (regen/dam)
7) beating heart: F/I res minor ToHit debuff
8) rage stomp: built up rage can be used in PBAoE (all rage is used up and any regen built up is lost
9) uncontrollable rage: reduces health to 100 over BASE health (full rage, full hp/dam/regen bonus) all res caped def 45%
Ok, that's 5 stacked ToHit debuffs. Now, the tactic of 'balance by annoyance' died out a long, long time ago. We're talking back when Mez shields rooted the player immobile and Unyielding actually gave -defence. Those, in case you hadn't noticed, got changed ages ago. Same way as Group Fly had it's ridiculous -ToHit penalty removed.

Fact: Players hate needless penalties. This set basically penalises you from step 1.

Now, Rage. Rage is already a power in Super Strength. And Fury, which is very mechanically similar to this, is already Unique to Brutes. You also have a Taunt power, not an aura, in a defence set. And a build up style move, and an attack. Now, yes, Shield does set precedent for attacks in Defence sets. So does Fire and Dark and everything with a damage aura. But this seems like a weird hybrid of attack and defence that simply doesn't fill all the gaps.

And then we get Uncontrollable Rage, which is about as far from a Tier 9 as you can get. It's like an 'I Lose' Button.


Quote:
It's first notable weakness is the ToHit debuff, also getting hit is required to do effective damage. The set also has no res to -end -regen -tohit -dam. If he was fighting a mission of dark (CoT) he would be about as useful and a SO stone tank in granite form.
Except that even an SO Granite tank is still one of the most durable things in the game. AND it has debuff res out the whazoo. So, no, they are in fact nothing alike.

Quote:
That being said, S/L res would be capped with enhancements, and all others would be around 60-80% res. It's only reakness is secondaries and the tohit debuff
Which means it hit's nothing and get's debuffed into the ground. Which means you pretty much are a sitting duck for a solid pounding. Does that sound fun? Hmn, no. Not really. That makes any End-Drain mob as terrifying as a Malta Sapper. On an armour set. Not a good mix.

Quote:
The HP/rage scale is formed like this [( base hp )(added hp)] Meaning, if your base HP is 2000 and your total HP is 3000 ... your uncontrolable rage HP would cap at 1100 HP for the duration. also, the higher the HP the more health you will have left at full rage.

What do you think?
I think this set doesn't pass muster. Not by a long shot. It's only 'unique' feature seems to be being a Hulk rip off and not fitting in the CoH mechanics very well. At all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Ok, that's 5 stacked ToHit debuffs. Now, the tactic of 'balance by annoyance' died out a long, long time ago. We're talking back when Mez shields rooted the player immobile and Unyielding actually gave -defence. Those, in case you hadn't noticed, got changed ages ago. Same way as Group Fly had it's ridiculous -ToHit penalty removed.
then take out the -tohit it's a concept

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Which means it hit's nothing and get's debuffed into the ground. Which means you pretty much are a sitting duck for a solid pounding. Does that sound fun? Hmn, no. Not really. That makes any End-Drain mob as terrifying as a Malta Sapper. On an armour set. Not a good mix.
A friend up mine reminded me, few to no builds have def/res to those effects ... so if you don't like this build, you'd hate fire aura, electric aura. etc

Also, if you don't want hit, take +def powers ... like you would with the before mentioned sets.


 

Posted

Debuff Resistances across Armour Sets:

Dark Armour: Endurance, Recovery, Perception
Electric Armour: Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Energy Aura: Defense, Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Fiery Aura: Endurance, Recharge, Run Speed
Ice Armour: Defence, Perception, Recharge, Run Speed
Invulnerability: Defence, Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Ninjitsu: Defence, Perception
Regeneration: Regeneration
Shield Defence: Defence, Recharge
Stone Armour: Defence, Endurance, Recovery, Perception,
Super Reflexes: Defence, Perception, Recharge, Run Speed
Willpower: Defence, Perception, Regen


 

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I believe what OP really wants is a "Berserker" set, in which there has been at least 1 or 2 very good threads about such a set in the past, which could probably be found using some search fu.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zortel View Post
Debuff Resistances across Armour Sets:

Dark Armour: Endurance, Recovery, Perception
Electric Armour: Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Energy Aura: Defense, Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Fiery Aura: Endurance, Recharge, Run Speed
Ice Armour: Defence, Perception, Recharge, Run Speed
Invulnerability: Defence, Endurance, Recovery, Recharge, Run Speed
Ninjitsu: Defence, Perception
Regeneration: Regeneration
Shield Defence: Defence, Recharge
Stone Armour: Defence, Endurance, Recovery, Perception,
Super Reflexes: Defence, Perception, Recharge, Run Speed
Willpower: Defence, Perception, Regen
It comes down to ... it's a concept, if the Devs make it, they would balance it as they see fit. Regen end and perception seem the best fit to me ... But I really could care less ... I just like and want the concept built.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
This means death. Crushing, painful, agonising and un-fun death. Fighting Mu, Clockwork or Carnies? Bye bye Endurance. Fighting CoT? Bye bye To-Hit.

I...honestly don't see anything here that Invul or Willpower couldn't do already and do *better*.
Honestly ... it's a playing style, I don't like playing those sets. I like fire and this is more a kin to that defensive set.


 

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Updated how concept is comparable to something existing in game


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
an SS/Inv brute isn't good enough for you?
I tried invuln/SS tank and brute also WP/SS tank and brute. neither fits my play style or liking. The closest is fire/SS ... but I still don't like it completely. of the three defense builds I came up with:

1. This is the most like how I play.

2. This would be second (spine): http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=275400

3. This would be last for me (gravity) (I've been told many people want this concept): http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=276889

I only like melee toons, But I grow tired of the play style options. I like SR . . . But even it needs fixed. (some recommendations I had if you'd like to comment on them: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=279197 ). I like damage output and taunt aura of fire, but not the click heal, it's not lag friendly. I like SR, due to quickness, but it's taunt is only good for solo (why bother), and it's prone to hit spikes (instant death).

PLEASE Devs. Make this set. A resistance form of SR that's been long awaited ... by me :P

And Devs, review option 3 for the people who have asked for it. I believe its a solve for the "gravity" issue of why the set hasn't been built yet..


 

Posted

Your tier 9 should be called "Kill Me Now".

Your HP drops to 100, but your resistance is capped and you are soft-capped to everything. Why does that sound so familiar?

Oh yeah, it's almost identical to the old Moment of Glory, which most people skipped because it SUCKED.

Imagine fighting an enemy group that has a large to-hit buff available to it. Like, oh, Nemesis or Devouring Earth. Pop your tier 9 while fighting DE, hit the floor 0.652 seconds later.

Actually, I'd like for the devs to make this set for you, just so you can see how horrible it would be for yourself.

And on the flip side of things, if you were to give this set to a tank it has the potential to be incredibly overpowered. Capped S/L resistance, and 60-80% resistance to everything else? Sounds like Granite without the movement or recharge penalties.

Add in the fact that a tank can soft-cap defense with IOs even if they have no defense to begin with, and you have a broken set.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Your tier 9 should be called "Kill Me Now".

Your HP drops to 100, but your resistance is capped and you are soft-capped to everything. Why does that sound so familiar?

Oh yeah, it's almost identical to the old Moment of Glory, which most people skipped because it SUCKED.

Imagine fighting an enemy group that has a large to-hit buff available to it. Like, oh, Nemesis or Devouring Earth. Pop your tier 9 while fighting DE, hit the floor 0.652 seconds later.

Actually, I'd like for the devs to make this set for you, just so you can see how horrible it would be for yourself.

And on the flip side of things, if you were to give this set to a tank it has the potential to be incredibly overpowered. Capped S/L resistance, and 60-80% resistance to everything else? Sounds like Granite without the movement or recharge penalties.

Add in the fact that a tank can soft-cap defense with IOs even if they have no defense to begin with, and you have a broken set.
I tried saying that. It didn't seem to sink in very well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Here is effectively what you're asking for, but thought out in a way which is a lot closer to existing sets and survivability numbers so it isn't horrible dead in this game. The set you are suggesting there may work in other MMOs or RPGs but sadly from the way this game works you'd likely be the only person playing it while the rest are yelling at the devs for balance changes.


I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
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