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I read through his idea and would probably make all new toons with that set. Also, I did gleen a little from it for my set. But, I still like my set more and not just because it's my set. But, because:|
Originally Posted by CBeet
Here is effectively what you're asking for, but thought out in a way which is a lot closer to existing sets and survivability numbers so it isn't horrible dead in this game. The set you are suggesting there may work in other MMOs or RPGs but sadly from the way this game works you'd likely be the only person playing it while the rest are yelling at the devs for balance changes.
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all his defences are based on health ... that's a little scary (HIGH potential to be a one hit wonder).
caped bonuses requires his set to be at 20% health, mine capes at 30% and all damage up to that 30% has a form of 50% resistance of the remaining damage, due to the health based 50% HP bonus meaning 90% resistance becomes 95%, 80% becomes 90%.
An auto taunt aura is rather weird and potentially problematic. For example, you get sequestered in BAF, but continue to taunt them with your auto aura, leading to horrible death.
The first toggle has resist to both disorient and stun, but disorients and stuns are the same thing. I also don't see any sleep, KB, Repel, or confuse protection, are all of those intentional?
Changes to max hp, by the way, do not work the way you seem to be implying in the first post. Your health bar does not move when your max health changes; that is, the percentage stays the same. So maxhp changes do not really act as resistance to the heal/damage that caused them, although they will act sort of like resistance to further heals/damage.
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I updated the set for a [toggle] taunt. Also added the sleep resistance, however, I did leave the KB, repel, and confuse in the set as the status weaknesses. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
An auto taunt aura is rather weird and potentially problematic. For example, you get sequestered in BAF, but continue to taunt them with your auto aura, leading to horrible death.
The first toggle has resist to both disorient and stun, but disorients and stuns are the same thing. I also don't see any sleep, KB, Repel, or confuse protection, are all of those intentional? Changes to max hp, by the way, do not work the way you seem to be implying in the first post. Your health bar does not move when your max health changes; that is, the percentage stays the same. So maxhp changes do not really act as resistance to the heal/damage that caused them, although they will act sort of like resistance to further heals/damage. |
Please explain how the HP are added? If the player is damaged for 100/1000 HP ... what would the HP look like after? Assuming there was no regen, heals, or further damage after that. would it be now show 150/1050 HP ... or is it 100/1050 HP ... or is it 125/1050 HP. Wait, you said the pecentage of the HP wouldn't change ... that means it would be 105/1050? mening the damage does an extra 5% damage but resisted by about 47% ... right?
Don't forget to vomment on the Psy defense ... it's the perfect concept for psy, I think.
If you're at 100/1000 hp (10%), and your max hp increases to 1050, you will still be at 10%, so yeah, 105/1050. When you have nearly full health, you'll gain almost as much current hp as max hp; when you're at low health, you'll gain/lose very little current hp due to max hp changes. I'm not sure which part of the numbers you're using is supposed to be the damage taken.
With the way the math works, changes to maximum hp are actually very closely comparable to increased resistance.
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The scary part would be when reaching 1000/1500 HP the 47% seudo resist ends / enemy damage buff ends and it's back to normal.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
If you're at 100/1000 hp (10%), and your max hp increases to 1050, you will still be at 10%, so yeah, 105/1050. When you have nearly full health, you'll gain almost as much current hp as max hp; when you're at low health, you'll gain/lose very little current hp due to max hp changes. I'm not sure which part of the numbers you're using is supposed to be the damage taken.
With the way the math works, changes to maximum hp are actually very closely comparable to increased resistance. |
Thinking about it ... I'm going to change the taunt aura so it's not Over Powered. if you wanna look at it.
Why does the pseudo resist end? Your 66% hp is worth 1000 hit points, instead of the 667 hit points it would be worth without the hp buff. I'm not sure where you're getting 47% from, either.
Increased max hp acts as resistance against FURTHER damage taken. It doesn't really do anything against damage you've already sustained.
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50hp increase divided by the 105 damage (to keep the HP percentage the same) = around 47% resistance.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Why does the pseudo resist end? Your 66% hp is worth 1000 hit points, instead of the 667 hit points it would be worth without the hp buff. I'm not sure where you're getting 47% from, either.
Increased max hp acts as resistance against FURTHER damage taken. It doesn't really do anything against damage you've already sustained. |
Perhaps I should ask how dull pain works. It is a HP bonus, But I notice a heal when I click it. is the self heal the attempt to keep the same (example: 60% current HPs)?
Where's the 105 damage coming from? I thought we had a character at 100 hp out of 1000, whose max hp then increased to 1050... can you clarify?
How much current hp does the example character start with, out of how much max hp?
How much damage does he take?
How much does his max hp then change by?
I'll make up an example: character is at 2000/2000 hp. He gets hit for 1000, reducing him to 1000/2000 hp (50%). His max hp then increases by 500, to 2500. His current hp changes to keep him at 50%, so he ends up at 1250/2500.
Let's say he then heals 750 hp, putting him at 2000/2500 (80%). His hp buff then ends, dropping him back to 2000 max, and so his current hp changes to 1600 because 1600/2000 is 80%.
Dull Pain is a poor illustration for this because it has both a max hp buff and a large heal. Powers like Frostwork or One with the Shield are easier to observe.
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so, heals would actually be MORE effective. in the senerio the damage was taken of 1000, but only 750 was required to bring him back to full health. Also meaning that the regen value of say 100HP per sec would be more effective as well. This set could be way Over Powered with the numbers I was originally thinking. I'm going to try and think up an appicable equation for this series of changes. If you already have one, that would be appriciated. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Where's the 105 damage coming from? I thought we had a character at 100 hp out of 1000, whose max hp then increased to 1050... can you clarify?
How much current hp does the example character start with, out of how much max hp? How much damage does he take? How much does his max hp then change by? I'll make up an example: character is at 2000/2000 hp. He gets hit for 1000, reducing him to 1000/2000 hp (50%). His max hp then increases by 500, to 2500. His current hp changes to keep him at 50%, so he ends up at 1250/2500. Let's say he then heals 750 hp, putting him at 2000/2500 (80%). His hp buff then ends, dropping him back to 2000 max, and so his current hp changes to 1600 because 1600/2000 is 80%. Dull Pain is a poor illustration for this because it has both a max hp buff and a large heal. Powers like Frostwork or One with the Shield are easier to observe. |
Oh, I don't need an equation for that, the game already has that coded in, they would just need to make the coding for the power to add in the HP that also stops the HP effect when you go below starting HP number and existing HP code would auto correct the HP to be an accurate percentage. so, damage of 100 is 10% of the 1000 HP, and as the HP get boosted by 50, the health that was taken would be increased by 5 ... which is 10%. so ending health would be 895/1050 and the heal required to be at full health would only have to be 79 HP (75% of original damage).
Let's say your base regen is 22HP per sec (same as my SR scrapper with 2000 HP) if you took a heavy blow from and AV and you are at NOW 1000/3000 HP (due to HP buff) your regen is now 33HP per sec. But taking into account that every HP is 25% more effective, your acctual HP per sec would be 41.25. and even at lowest HP per sec of 22, the actual HP per sec would be 27.5.
These numbers sound about right?
No, 750 points of healing did not put him back to full, it put him at 80%. +hp actually acts a little like heal resistance: you took 1000 damage, but would need 1250 healing to get back to full because you were at 1250/2500.
If you start at 1000/1000 and take 100, you'd be at 900/1000 (90%), then your max hp increases by 50, so you're at 945/1050, not 895/1050.
Your regen in absolute hp/sec does improve while the +hp is active, but every tick of regen is still 5% of your max health, so if the +hp goes away, it will automatically adjust each tick gained to 5% of your new max health. Again, it acts almost exactly like a resistance buff - it takes more enemy damage to undo each tick of regeneration, but only for as long as the buff is active.
Edit: Note that when I say +hp sort of resists heals, I mean actual heals, the kind that make green numbers appear over your head. Regeneration still works fine because it is a percentage of your maximum health. Similarly, +hp does not help you against attacks that deal a percentage of your max hp, like Disintegration in Keyes. In that particular example, +hp actually works against you, because you need more green insps or more points of teammate healing to recover from each Disintegrate tick.
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Could you explain the heal using these same numbers? you are at 945/1050. you'd have to be healed for 105 to be back to full health? |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
If you start at 1000/1000 and take 100, you'd be at 900/1000 (90%), then your max hp increases by 50, so you're at 945/1050, not 895/1050.
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So, the health would actually go down at around half the speed of a normal player, but also recover at about half the speed. meaning he would be able to stay at a medium HP pretty easily once he get's there. IE: turning off resistance powers till he gets there. then the regen buff would keep him there and he would also be able to withstand damage spikes. What are your thoughts on that power and keeping the damage buff. I think it would work perfectly now that it makes more sense.
Would a 50% buff get you to capped HP if you slot correctly ... with all 4 types tank/brute/scrapper/stalker?
Your HP drops to 100, but your resistance is capped and you are soft-capped to everything. Why does that sound so familiar?
Oh yeah, it's almost identical to the old Moment of Glory, which most people skipped because it SUCKED.
Imagine fighting an enemy group that has a large to-hit buff available to it. Like, oh, Nemesis or Devouring Earth. Pop your tier 9 while fighting DE, hit the floor 0.652 seconds later.
Actually, I'd like for the devs to make this set for you, just so you can see how horrible it would be for yourself.
And on the flip side of things, if you were to give this set to a tank it has the potential to be incredibly overpowered. Capped S/L resistance, and 60-80% resistance to everything else? Sounds like Granite without the movement or recharge penalties.
Add in the fact that a tank can soft-cap defense with IOs even if they have no defense to begin with, and you have a broken set.
It did sink in ... that's why I was forced to update the info on the tier 9. If the tier 9 is that weak against those groups, don't use it against those groups. one medium def should make you survivable against them.
You mean incredably OverPowered like invuln tank ... then yes, it could be somewhat close to that with S/L soft capped def. it still wouldn't be like granite though ... cause granite has a HIGH def AND res. it would be closer to fire than anything with just a little more S/L resistance.
basically, it would have SD's damage buff(provided you're low health), regen's regen(provided you're low health), and invuln type resistance (NOT defense). Very survivable, but not god-like(invuln and stone).