I've got to admit, my impression of precognition defense would be the person going "Hell, no, I'm not going in there - they'd try to shoot me!"
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That'd be the biggest let down of a hero ever. "Ma'am I'm here to save you from having your purse stolen....wait never mind he's got a gun. Surely you can handle this yourself..."
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I've got to admit, my impression of precognition defense would be the person going "Hell, no, I'm not going in there - they'd try to shoot me!"
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K Thx Bai
Maybe they should make radiation sets. Offensive and defensive. But in all seriousness, there really isn't much left since Psychic would just be the combination of a few other sets. Seems most good ideas have used. Other ideas do arise, but technical issues stop them, such as power armors or similar natures.
Shapeshifting set be nice though, like the Granite armor so animations stay similar.
I think Super Reflexes has that concept very well covered already.
Adding World of Confusion and Drain Psyche make the set feel more "Psychic" in game terms (pink FX and psychic words in the power names), but when you look at what they're actually doing, they're not really very precognitive at all.
How does seeing into the future allow you to boost your regeneration rate based on the number of enemies around you? (For that matter, what exactly are Psi Dominators and Blasters doing with this power conceptually..)
I do agree that some new armor sets would be nice, and some sort of psychic set is a good conceptual hole, but Im at a bit of a loss as to what game mechanics they could use.
Another conceptual hole that would be interesting to try and replicate in agme would be Intangibility. Think Vision/Kitty Pryde/Phantom Girl. How would you go about doing that?
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Temporal Armor! Could take a fw cues from Time Manipulation set. |
Originally Posted by Vexen777
Maybe they should make radiation sets. Offensive and defensive. But in all seriousness, there really isn't much left since Psychic would just be the combination of a few other sets. Seems most good ideas have used. Other ideas do arise, but technical issues stop them, such as power armors or similar natures.
Shapeshifting set be nice though, like the Granite armor so animations stay similar. |
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Valid points, but sadly I feel like my point wasn't made well, and for that I apologize. Precognition was more of a placeholder name rather than just calling it psychic defense. So, I guess it'd be a mixture of psychic powers, the primary defenses coming from precognitive abilities, and the other powers from other psychic disciples.
I know some things don't make sense and may never make sense (Drain Psyche) but there are plenty of powers like that in the game, plus we are playing in a fantastic universe, so I say don't try to logic it out, just go along with it.
This brings me to what I guess the point I was really trying to make was. City of Heroes has always prided itself on it's diversity of powers and costumes, so why not take some of the powers that already exist in the game across multiple AT's and power-sets and bring them together into a new power set. Why? Because they exist and its a quick and easy way to give players that much more freedom. So what if its similar to SR or Ninjitsu, its not meant to be a whole new thing with a whole new system. A shapeshifting set, radiation, temporal armor, or intangibility set would be cool, I do agree with that; however that would require all new powers to be created, all new numbers, new animations, and so much more. I'm not saying they shouldn't work on making those, but that they should look into doing little easy projects like this to fill the gap between releasing major/original sets.
So, why not give us a new power set when it would only take a couple guys a week (or less) to produce, then turn around and sell it for 800 points on the Paragon Market?
K Thx Bai
I really don't see a precog set doing anything mechanically different from super reflexes so it could just be a personal decision on how you define super reflexes
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This is basically what my super reflexes scrapper does. Not really seeing any difference here.
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Because even the simplest of powerset take significantly longer than that to create and test.
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Originally Posted by PhoenixOfSyrinx
So, why not give us a new power set when it would only take a couple guys a week (or less) to produce, then turn around and sell it for 800 points on the Paragon Market?
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Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
Don't get hung up on the name.
I agree Precognition is just an enhanced version of Super Reflexes but as he said, he really means for psychic defense, not limited to mere precognition.
Having said that, I think that particular combination of powers could be a little too powerful.
Drain Psyche is one of the most powerful regen debuffs in the game, combining that with a melee's high damage would make short work of pretty much anything.
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I was actually worried about that. That's why I didn't suggest a super Tier 9 defense power; instead Drain Psyche could take its place. Maybe give it a longer recharge like a tier 9 would have, get rid of the regen/recovery debuff aspect, or just nerf the crap out of the debuff. |
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Don't get hung up on the name.
I agree Precognition is just an enhanced version of Super Reflexes but as he said, he really means for psychic defense, not limited to mere precognition. Having said that, I think that particular combination of powers could be a little too powerful. Drain Psyche is one of the most powerful regen debuffs in the game, combining that with a melee's high damage would make short work of pretty much anything. |
As far as it being similar to SR in the idea of seeing/dodging stuff before it hits you, and therefore you could pretend SR is a precognition set; to me that's like the people who play energy blasters to pretend they are using water blast attacks. Not that its bad, they're working with what they've got; but in this case I really don't see a reason for this set not to exist.
Ninjitsu is Super Reflexes dulled down, but with a heal; which is more like what I'm suggesting than SR. I've posted this thread on a couple of the CoH forums I'm on and everyone seems to keep getting caught up in the fact that it's similar to another set. When you think of it the only defense set that is rather unique is Regeneration. All the other sets have sister sets. Fiery Aura , Dark Armor, and Electric Armor are all creepily similar. (res based) Same goes for Super Reflexes, Ice Armor, Shield Defense, and Ninjitsu. (def based) Then you have Invulnerability, Stone Armor, Energy Aura, and Willpower. (res&def mix) So everything is a thematic variation based on one of those three categories.
Besides, its about time we have a real psi defense set. Yes Willpower, Stone, and Dark Armor have psi defense/resistance but its not heavily focused on like fiery aura is to fire. There is a thematic set for every one of the types of damage, why not give us a psi set. I think that with all the psi that's starting to show up in the game, it'd be nice to have a set specially designed to counter it. Besides 90% of the powers/animations already exist.
K Thx Bai
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you're totally right.|
Originally Posted by PhoenixOfSyrinx
Valid points, but sadly I feel like my point wasn't made well, and for that I apologize. Precognition was more of a placeholder name rather than just calling it psychic defense. So, I guess it'd be a mixture of psychic powers, the primary defenses coming from precognitive abilities, and the other powers from other psychic disciples.
I know some things don't make sense and may never make sense (Drain Psyche) but there are plenty of powers like that in the game, plus we are playing in a fantastic universe, so I say don't try to logic it out, just go along with it. This brings me to what I guess the point I was really trying to make was. City of Heroes has always prided itself on it's diversity of powers and costumes, so why not take some of the powers that already exist in the game across multiple AT's and power-sets and bring them together into a new power set. Why? Because they exist and its a quick and easy way to give players that much more freedom. So what if its similar to SR or Ninjitsu, its not meant to be a whole new thing with a whole new system. A shapeshifting set, radiation, temporal armor, or intangibility set would be cool, I do agree with that; however that would require all new powers to be created, all new numbers, new animations, and so much more. I'm not saying they shouldn't work on making those, but that they should look into doing little easy projects like this to fill the gap between releasing major/original sets. So, why not give us a new power set when it would only take a couple guys a week (or less) to produce, then turn around and sell it for 800 points on the .................................................. .................................................. ...... I was actually worried about that. That's why I didn't suggest a super Tier 9 defense power; instead Drain Psyche could take its place. Maybe give it a longer recharge like a tier 9 would have, get rid of the regen/recovery debuff aspect, or just nerf the crap out of the debuff. As far as it being similar to SR in the idea of seeing/dodging stuff before it hits you, and therefore you could pretend SR is a precognition set; to me that's like the people who play energy blasters to pretend they are using water blast attacks. Not that its bad, they're working with what they've got; but in this case I really don't see a reason for this set not to exist. Ninjitsu is Super Reflexes dulled down, but with a heal; which is more like what I'm suggesting than SR. I've posted this thread on a couple of the CoH forums I'm on and everyone seems to keep getting caught up in the fact that it's similar to another set. When you think of it the only defense set that is rather unique is Regeneration. All the other sets have sister sets. Fiery Aura , Dark Armor, and Electric Armor are all creepily similar. (res based) Same goes for Super Reflexes, Ice Armor, Shield Defense, and Ninjitsu. (def based) Then you have Invulnerability, Stone Armor, Energy Aura, and Willpower. (res&def mix) So everything is a thematic variation based on one of those three categories. Besides, its about time we have a real psi defense set. Yes Willpower, Stone, and Dark Armor have psi defense/resistance but its not heavily focused on like fiery aura is to fire. There is a thematic set for every one of the types of damage, why not give us a psi set. I think that with all the psi that's starting to show up in the game, it'd be nice to have a set specially designed to counter it. Besides 90% of the powers/animations already exist. |
there are a couple other sets that could be created rather easily by re-arranging sets to make new-hole-filling sets, and this is an excellent example. dark for blaster secondary is also a good example of something like this happening.
it's not proliferation and it's not something completely new requiring even long turnover time for animations and extra balancing. numbers to comprable powers exist, and are great guidelines.
i really hope things like this happen from time to time, there are several great sets i would like to see happen including this one. [im hoping for custom weapon combo blaster and dom secondaries].
thanks for explaining so eloquently what i been thinking
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That was my take as well. |
Originally Posted by Lycanus
I really don't see a precog set doing anything mechanically different from super reflexes so it could just be a personal decision on how you define super reflexes
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Super Reflexes means you dodge incoming attacks.
Who's to say that you aren't dodging them because you're seeing a few seconds into the future while you're fighting?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from on this. Also I see your desire for a blaster secondary that is not devices but rather some mix of existing weapon sets for melee purposes. Lets face it, who hasn't wanted to make a blaster that also swung a sword/mace/axe around also!? Although porting over an entire melee set wouldn't work well with how the blaster secondaries are currently set up. As it is most of the secondaries average at about 3-5 melee or PBAoE attacks, so making a secondary that was basically identical to a pure melee set would really off balance that system. What I'd suggest is the devs mix melee powers from a set with some generic powers, for example powers from a melee set like Katana could be mixed with powers like Conserve Power, Build Up, Boost Range, or Power Boost; basically generic self buff powers that were put in "Energy" manipulation could be mixed with melee sets to make new blaster secondaries quickly and easily. Only problem is that in doing that you would probably have to betray the 'rule' that blaster secondaries have to have a moderate dmg foe immobilize. (Energy Manipulation is the only secondary that doesn't have one) If the devs where really bent out of shape about this they could always make the tier 1 power web grenade. Daveyj3, I like the fact we are both on the same page here, you should make a post about the blaster secondaries. My attempt to convince people that there are power sets waiting to be created from existing material has seemingly failed considering everyone seems to think the set up for a psi defense set is "too similar" to something else, and not embracing the opportunity to have a broader choice. |
Originally Posted by daveyj3
you're totally right.
there are a couple other sets that could be created rather easily by re-arranging sets to make new-hole-filling sets, and this is an excellent example. dark for blaster secondary is also a good example of something like this happening. it's not proliferation and it's not something completely new requiring even long turnover time for animations and extra balancing. numbers to comprable powers exist, and are great guidelines. i really hope things like this happen from time to time, there are several great sets i would like to see happen including this one. [im hoping for custom weapon combo blaster and dom secondaries]. thanks for explaining so eloquently what i been thinking |
P.S. - to all the people that said my idea was the same as SR and a psi defense set wouldn't be cool, I just went ahead and made a Arachnos Widow toon, because that's as close as I'll get for now.
K Thx Bai
You could make the set pretty easily.
Take SR, replace Practiced Brawler with Indomitable Will. Voila, precognition with Psi defense.
Maybe add some sort of power that buffs your to-hit for enemies in melee range of you, and debuffs their damage.
It's not a bad idea for a set, it's just functionally too close to something we already have. That's the only real problem I see with it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by PhoenixOfSyrinx
Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from on this. Also I see your desire for a blaster secondary that is not devices but rather some mix of existing weapon sets for melee purposes. Lets face it, who hasn't wanted to make a blaster that also swung a sword/mace/axe around also!? Although porting over an entire melee set wouldn't work well with how the blaster secondaries are currently set up. As it is most of the secondaries average at about 3-5 melee or PBAoE attacks, so making a secondary that was basically identical to a pure melee set would really off balance that system. What I'd suggest is the devs mix melee powers from a set with some generic powers, for example powers from a melee set like Katana could be mixed with powers like Conserve Power, Build Up, Boost Range, or Power Boost; basically generic self buff powers that were put in "Energy" manipulation could be mixed with melee sets to make new blaster secondaries quickly and easily. Only problem is that in doing that you would probably have to betray the 'rule' that blaster secondaries have to have a moderate dmg foe immobilize. (Energy Manipulation is the only secondary that doesn't have one) If the devs where really bent out of shape about this they could always make the tier 1 power web grenade. Daveyj3, I like the fact we are both on the same page here, you should make a post about the blaster secondaries. My attempt to convince people that there are power sets waiting to be created from existing material has seemingly failed considering everyone seems to think the set up for a psi defense set is "too similar" to something else, and not embracing the opportunity to have a broader choice.
P.S. - to all the people that said my idea was the same as SR and a psi defense set wouldn't be cool, I just went ahead and made a Arachnos Widow toon, because that's as close as I'll get for now. |
also i didnt mean a direct port of any custom weapon set, but yea, combined with self buffes and other goodies, like the difference be tween traps and devices for support and blaster secondary, there are a few options. or even multiple weapons in one set. why not?
im gonna make a post right now about potential blaster and dom secondaries.
So, I was talking with someone the other day and they brought up the fact that the devs (to our knowledge) hadn't announced any plans so far for a new melee defense set. They've released stuff for defender types, blaster types, and melee fighting types. Plus they are coming out with titan weapons (and staff melee?). So where is the new defense set? We haven't seen anything since Willpower. My suggestion was a combination of currently existing powers to make a psychic themed defense set.
Of course they'd have to tweak numbers, and maybe even change a couple animations, but the groundwork is already there. I envision this set as kinda being like a precognition type set that gives psi resistance and defense. Basically Willpower meets Super Reflexes meets Ninjitsu, meets Arachnos Widow.
(Not necessarily this order. Just listing best potential powers)
2-3 powers - (Toggles) Positional defense, and Psi defense (or psi resistance)
Indomitable Will - (Click) Prot status effects, +Def Psi
Mind over Body - (Toggle) Res S/L/Psi
Foresight - (Auto) Res status effects, Res Psi, +Def to all
Mental Training - (Auto) +Rech, +Spd, Res Slow
World of Confusion - (Toggle, Taunt Aura) PBAoE minor DoT, Foe confuse
Drain Psyche - (Click) +Regen/+Recovery, Foe -regen/-recovery
Other powers to consider would be Mask Presence (toggle, stealth, +Def) and even Mind Link (team +def) considering shield defense has somewhat of a similar power.
Considering stuff would have to be balanced the positional defenses for this set should probably only add up to, or just under 13% (unenhanced) because it wouldn't be a purely defensive set like SR*. I say this especially because Mind over Body is a resistance power and Drain Psyche can be used like Instant Healing from the regeneration set. So while 13% unenhanced seems low its still a number that with some work a person could make a soft capped defense build out of. The only decent argument this set could have for having a higher base defense to positionals would be that I didn't suggest some uber tier 9 power that grants forty something percent defense to everything with a thousand second recharge. That being said, it would be a psychic defense set, psi defense should be a bit higher than ~13%.
*(stalker/scrapper numbers) SR gets 19.5% positionals unenhanced. Also note that Ninjitsu only gets 13.9% defense to positionals considering it has a self heal and a couple debuff powers.
~stops ranting and steps off soap box~ What do you guys think? Even if it didn't end up being apart of some awesome flavor of the month build, a little variety in melee defense sets wouldn't hurt would it?
K Thx Bai