Was stamina nerfed when they made it inherent?

Been playing for a while now, and on most toons, I don't have issues with recovery. Of course, that isn't saying much.

Until recently, I have mostly been playing Scrappers and Brutes and even then, my power choices were simply /willpower and /Electric Armor. So I basically didn't notice if it did get nerfed or not.

But I played a Super Strength/ Invulnerability Brute, got it in the mid thirties and deleted it because I couldn't stand that Rage Crash. So I didn't notice there, really. Had endurance issues in the low levels, but prior to deleting that character, has no endurance issues until Rage Crashed.

But I am doing a Night Widow, and I make sure I got sprint turned off only running the 3 leadership toggles that come with the secondary powerset and Indomitable Will and Mask Presence, and it's like after every battle with three even con minions. My endurance bar is on empty and my toggles are about to be shut off.
I even 3 slotted stamina and stuck three IO recovery's in it and I got 3 endurance discount IO's every toggle, but I am still having this problem which should not be happening at all.

You folks having endurance issues with your toons or notice a decrease in recovery that stamina gives out since going inherent?

Not with the inherent change, but I seem to recall Stamina was nerfed around the same time as the most recent Accuracy nerf.

The Endurance reduction you have slotted in your toggles will serve you better in your attacks. Stamina has not been touched, to my knowledge, and a few of my characters have similar endurance woes that typically start in the early teens and last (in some cases) into the mid-twenties (at which point you have SO-level enhancers, and +Endurance proc IOs)

The common thread is usually a combination of having a lot of attacks available, and not enough endurance reduction slotted to sustain them.

Case in point, my Street Justice/Shield scrapper was an endurance nightmare until I had 3 slotted stamina with Performance Shifter +End proc, Numina and Miracle +End procs, and at least ~30% endurance reduction in EACH attack. Levels 10-27 on that character were some of the most tedious and frustrating levels I've ever experienced*.

Hope that helps!

*IMO this is evidence of some underlying bad game design issues that will probably never be addressed at this point, so we are left with only the workarounds.

"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend

Esp. on a Widow you should not be having any problems. What enemies are you fighting? Malta? Carnival of Shadows? And what is your slotting in those toggles, in your attacks and in Stamina itself?

Actually, if you go into all that detail, it might be better to post on the Soldiers of Arachnos forum.

Widows can suck end hard. When you say you are running the leadership, do you mean the pool or the secondary. The pool is expensive and running both sets puts a big drain on you. If you are just running the secondary versions, then I don't know where your end is going - those are silly cheap.

EDIT: oh, you did say the three from the secondary... no reason you should be low, then. I had end issues up to 50, but I was pulling almost a full 1 end/second more than you. Something must not be slotted right.

Inherent Stamina is exactly the same as Fitness Pool Stamina.

As noted, Night Widow attacks aren't especially cheap, and they're fast, so the endurance-per-second used is high. Running "only" 5 toggles probably isn't helping, either; I would stay away from the Tactical Trainings except Maneuvers until you can improve your endurance management.

Most of your endurance use (way more than half, for most builds) comes from your attacks, not your toggles, so take some of the endredux in the toggles and move it to the attacks.

My widow tended to have end issues as well, but that was likely due to me dropping too many recharge reductions into the attacks, not enough end reductions and spamming the most end-sucking attacks when a simple little swipe would take something out. When I balanced things back out, I wasn't doing as much damage per attack, but I was able to sustain the damage much longer.

One of the drawbacks of widows + soldiers is that they are stuck with the Brute versions of the Patron Power pools, which (IMHO) generally suck for them. None of thier patrons give out a recovery power, just a bunch of stuff they already can do. While tenuously "flavorful" (ignoring that you can go hero right after gaining the powers), it pigonholes you into what is basically 5 versions of the same handful of powers. Access to the APP's would likely give you choices to something more useful, such as a recovery power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Toxa_ *IMO this is evidence of some underlying bad game design issues that will probably never be addressed at this point, so we are left with only the workarounds.

This is far, far off base. Endurance is a vital part of this game's GOOD design. It's a balancing factor. It gives devs another (very important) dial to turn to create powers, along with damage, accuracy, recharge, range, level availability, ect. As my example above, I allowed myself to deal more damage much quicker, but at the cost of not being able to sustain it for long. The "workarounds" are part of the design. You can choose either to use slots to reduce the cost or increase recovery, or you can choose powers (sometimes ) that increase end recovery. Both cases, you sacrificing slots/powers that could go toward other aspects. The choice is yours.

Besides, what would be the point of toggle powers? They might as well be Auto.

I think people forget that now they've taken additional powers to replace the fitness ones as well as more powers to spread the same number of slots over.

Of course if you take an additional attack power or two you are going need to slot them up meaning something else will be losing a slot or two. I wouldn't be surprised if people gave up the endurance reduction slot before they would give up an accuracy, damage or recharge slot.

Thanks for the help/response.

I was having brain flatulence when I was slotting my attack powers. I put in recharges instead of endurance reductions in my claw powers because the Claw powers seemed to have a longer recharge than the Claw powers you get in the Claws powerset for brutes.

Anyways, I fixed it and it's working ALOT better anyways. I am not getting the endurance recovery my Claws/Willpower Brute gets or having the same endo stealing tricks my Elec/Elec Brute gets, but thats fine. I still get what I wanted. So it's good.

I forgot I was going to use all 6 luck of the Gambler enhancements in my mask presence power and was going to use red fortune set in my link minds power. Not to mention the obliteration set in my spin power. Combine those with mental training, I should have more than enough recharge for the claw powers. Meaning I just simply use enurance reductions in my attacks and my other toggles.

Oh well, not a total waste. Somebody suggested that I should also consider add a performance shifter proc into stamina. Something about it occasionally giving me a small amount of endurance. I may do that, too.

If they did nerf the recovery or you want it to give more. Please start a seperate petition and not start one here. Have a good night.