Superior Conditioning
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2011-10-13 09:23 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
i think originally brutes got this because they had energy aura for long time which used to have conserve power before revamp, and the epic pools were not supposed to have duplicate powers
Damn, that's unfortunate.
Superior Conditioning is better than Conserve Power by leaps and bounds...in my opinion at least.
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It's not.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
Damn, that's unfortunate.
Superior Conditioning is better than Conserve Power by leaps and bounds...in my opinion at least. |
That said, I do prefere the passive over the clickie.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Wait...Superior Conditioning is a passive?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It's not.
That said, I do prefere the passive over the clickie. |
It has a recharge time on Mids.
My understanding...from Mids...is that it's a click +end power that gives (unslotted) +5 max endurance every 10s for 10s.
When slotted...that's +.28 end/sec.
I'm not sure if you can stack it...but if you can...we're talking up to .56 end/sec...which is more than unslotted quick recovery.
Also...it's another place to slot performance shifter chance for +end...
...theoretically...if you're clicking SC every 10s...then the performance shifter proc is getting the same ammount of chances as it does when slotted in QR, Stamina and Physical perfection.
In my opinion...that is "superior" to conserve power.
superior conditioning is auto power that grants a max end increase which can be enhanced, it starts at around 5% increase when enhanced can get around 9.5-10%
max end increase alternatively also increases end recovery since end recovery is a % of your end
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Even with Mids being wrong by giving it a recharge value and not labeling it an auto power...it's still superior just from the fact that you can slot a Performance Shifter proc into it...giving only Brutes and Stalkers the potential to have 4 Performance Shifter procs in auto powers.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
superior conditioning is auto power that grants a max end increase which can be enhanced, it starts at around 5% increase when enhanced can get around 9.5-10%
max end increase alternatively also increases end recovery since end recovery is a % of your end |
Again...in my opinion at least.
Think about it...
Conserve Power is good if you're using too much endurance. However, Superior Condition "could" remove those problems with just the added End and end/sec.
Then, if you have no endurance problems while running through your attack chain...the only other problem would be endurance sapping...which the performance shifter proc "could" potentially eliminate.
Conserve Power does nothing against endurance sapping.
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Conserve Power does accept P-shifter, but since CP is a click rather than an auto, it's not as effective, since the proc only fires when CP is turned on.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
it's still superior just from the fact that you can slot a Performance Shifter proc into it...
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"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
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Only Brute's have the potential - Stalkers don't get Quick Recovery in Regen/Willpower.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
...giving only Brutes and Stalkers the potential to have 4 Performance Shifter procs in auto powers.
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Conserve Power does accept P-shifter, but since CP is a click rather than an auto, it's not as effective, since the proc only fires when CP is turned on.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Eh, ~10 max end (fully enhanced) versus a blanket ~50% discount on all powers for 90 seconds is by no means an easy comparison. The thing that's great about Conserve Power is that it has an inherent synergy with +recharge, because recharge tends to make you burn through end faster, and recharge also makes Conserve Power come back faster. And the faster you're burning through endurance, the more endurance Conserve Power saves.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
Think about it...
Conserve Power is good if you're using too much endurance. However, Superior Condition "could" remove those problems with just the added End and end/sec. Then, if you have no endurance problems while running through your attack chain...the only other problem would be endurance sapping...which the performance shifter proc "could" potentially eliminate. |
On the other hand, Superior Conditioning only has synergy with other recovery bonuses; max end bonuses multiply your cumulative recovery, so if your recovery is low to begin with, SP will do less. If your recovery is high to begin with, SP will do more. Ordinarily, that sort of accelerating benefit from stacking is very powerful in games like this one, but endurance is a bit of a special case, because after a certain point having more of it just doesn't do you any good. To put it another way: as SP approaches its maximum numerical benefit, SP ironically also becomes less and less important.
Having another passive in which to slot Performance Shifter is nice; don't get me wrong -- and if you're really gasping for more endurance, Superior Conditioning isn't a bad power to take. But there are very few builds that can't get by with Conserve Power and Physical Perfection (available in the same Ancillary Pool to the relevant ATs). Generally, because the attack powers in that pool suck, you're better off using alternate means (if possible) to make your endurance situation manageable, so you can pick one of the other Ancillary/Patron pools (powers like Fireball, Ball Lightning+Electric Fences, Shadow Meld, and Gloom come to mind).
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
If your character already gains 4 end/sec (quite high), a fully-slotted Superior Conditioning will give you roughly .4 end/sec more. .6 if you count the Performance Shifter proc. At that point you're using 4 slots in the power. I've used Conserve Power with 2 slots to turn a net end drain of almost 1 end/sec into long-term endurance neutrality (use most of the bar between cycles, recover to full during the buff), so basically CP was providing me more endurance than Superior Condition does, despite using less slots. In short, Superior Conditioning is not as good as Conserve Power, and the margin widens as you add recharge.
In fact, now that Electric Armor and Energy Aura both have lost Conserve Power, I've wondered if the Brute ancillary pool might get rid of Superior Conditioning in favor of it. (Not saying it should, just that it occurred to me there's no reason it couldn't any more.)
Is it better for a Brute tank to take Superior Conditioning or Physical Perfection? I don't have room for both, and I'm not really anticipating end issues, so I figured the regen in PP was better, but SC would make my end recovery from Perf. Shifter during an endcrash slightly better.
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Depends how you look at it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It's not.
That said, I do prefere the passive over the clickie. |
Yes being a click, CP is more potent than SC, but there's also playstyle to consider; micromanaging yet another click in combat? Not all that fun to some.
Also being a click means CP is subject to recharge debuffs and may require another slot to be all that useful.
Also, how many IO sets does CP accept?
Jack all.
Ultimately that's the biggest drawback.
Superior Conditioning has it's place, even if it's not the "better" power.
All in all, I'd support Superior Conditioning being proliferated, as well as allowing CP to slot EndMod sets, even if they wouldn't affect anything but the power's recharge.
But that's not going to happen.
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Well the question is are you planning to take Focused Accuracy from the energy pool? because if not you have no choice but to take Superior Conditioning |
Originally Posted by Lady Sunflash
Is it better for a Brute tank to take Superior Conditioning or Physical Perfection? I don't have room for both, and I'm not really anticipating end issues, so I figured the regen in PP was better, but SC would make my end recovery from Perf. Shifter during an endcrash slightly better.
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But assuming you are and end isnt an issue I'd go with Physical Perfection since it takes both heal and end mod enhancement sets.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Conserve Power does accept P-shifter, but since CP is a click rather than an auto, it's not as effective, since the proc only fires when CP is turned on.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
No it doesn't. Conserve power doesnt take end mod sets. |
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
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I'd like to see an option of either Superior Conditioning or Conserve power (but not both) in all ancillaries that have either power - I'd much rather have the passive than yet another power with an insanely long recharge time, putting itself in the "too awesome to use" category.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
All in all, I'd support Superior Conditioning being proliferated, as well as allowing CP to slot EndMod sets, even if they wouldn't affect anything but the power's recharge.
But that's not going to happen. . |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Physical Perfection does take End Mod sets though. It being an Auto power nor not has nothing to do with it.|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
My bad, I was thinking Physical Perfection (which is still wrong cuz that's an auto as well.)
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PP modifies Endurance recovery, End Mod sets buff end recovery, thus it takes the set.
CP is an Endurance Reduction buff, End Mod sets do not buff end reduction, thus it doesn't take the set. Not to mention CP's End Reduction ignores enhancements and buffs anyhow, so even if End Mod sets DID modify end discounts, and CP Could slot them, it wouldn't do any good.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Basically, if you think remembering to click a power when it's up and you need it is micromanagement, then yes, conserve power is going to seem awfullly difficult to use well.
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No, Conserve Power doesn't accept Performance Shifter. It only takes standard/Hami enhancers for EndRed and Recharge.
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Conserve Power does accept P-shifter, but since CP is a click rather than an auto, it's not as effective, since the proc only fires when CP is turned on.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
On my main, I can fight at a steady pace that doesn't require button mashing and still gets the job done. HOWEVER, he still has the ability to have me mash buttons like a crack-addled console gamer. This kills stuff quicker but is harder on my end bar. If, in a fight I start noticing my blue bar dipping below 50%, I'll pop CP and start beating face like there's no tomorrow. I usually end up with my end bar someplace between 75 and 100 percent full by the time CP drops.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I believe I said I prefere Superior Conditioning with Conserve Power being the better power. So obviously, I know the upsides/downsides to these things.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Depends how you look at it.
Yes being a click, CP is more potent than SC, but there's also playstyle to consider; micromanaging yet another click in combat? Not all that fun to some. Also being a click means CP is subject to recharge debuffs and may require another slot to be all that useful. Also, how many IO sets does CP accept? Jack all. Ultimately that's the biggest drawback. Superior Conditioning has it's place, even if it's not the "better" power. All in all, I'd support Superior Conditioning being proliferated, as well as allowing CP to slot EndMod sets, even if they wouldn't affect anything but the power's recharge. But that's not going to happen. . |
That said, if you're being effected by -RCH, unless you're burning more end running toggles than you have ENDREC, this is a non factor. If your attacks aren't recharging fast enough to use, you're not burning END in the first place.
Yes, SC can take a Performance Shifter proc, yes that is nice, but CP is still way better in the END saving (and thus ENDREC) area. It really is that good in keeping the endbar full. In fact, when running CP, I don't recall having a character yet that ran out of END, but have had it happen to characters with SC and a Proc (before fully IOed out, as I tend to make sure I can run non stop on my characters when fully IOed).
But the clickie versus the passive is another choice. I not only prefere the passive, I just love the name of the power. Superior Conditioning, just sounds so much better to go along with my concepts than Conserve Power (note: I did say my concepts
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Always fun on my DB/WP, even after the SoW end crash, I can attack non stop, and still slowly gain END. But since I HAD to take CP, I like to click it right before/after the crash just to really watch the END bar race back to full while attacking non stop. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
On my main, I can fight at a steady pace that doesn't require button mashing and still gets the job done. HOWEVER, he still has the ability to have me mash buttons like a crack-addled console gamer. This kills stuff quicker but is harder on my end bar. If, in a fight I start noticing my blue bar dipping below 50%, I'll pop CP and start beating face like there's no tomorrow. I usually end up with my end bar someplace between 75 and 100 percent full by the time CP drops.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I know what you said and I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just offering commentary to the discussion about why I agree.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I believe I said I prefere Superior Conditioning with Conserve Power being the better power. So obviously, I know the upsides/downsides to these things.
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Why can't tanks get this?
I would take this over Conserve Power any day.