SO Based SS/Regen Brute, How To Go About It?

After seeing another thread asking about SO based survivability, I feel less silly for posting this, if not any more optimistic about it. Technically, I'd be using the Generic Non-Set IO's. Unlike brute/scrapper survivability vs. tanker SO's only OP, I'm still going to be VIP (though I'm 6 Months away from Tier 7 completion anyway). Even if I am just looking for basic functionality and not 'Let's Solo Hammidon' optimization.

I could probably make a whole post purely around 'Why I Won't Use Sets' (Or Hammidons, etc), but that would be pointless rambling and a waste of everyone's time to read. Just please, any advice offered be in regards to my intentions and not 'Farming is easy/you have no excuse for not having more money than ten characters can hold/You really would get better results with sets'.

So! Super Strength, I have yet to level a SS user high enough to get Footstomp for one reason or another before. It's nice and simplistic, thematic for an Angry punchy man, plus Rage is always nice, more so if you don't care your defense falls into the pavement every so often.

Regeneration. I have yet to use it because Willpower and Electric armor have been delightful security blankets of simplicity, and now that it is out for brutes it seems a good enough time as any to try something new. While I don't use sets, I do stare at Mids a lot. So I'm fairly sure SO based WP is a heck of a lot better overall than SO based Regen for the majority of the time when Instant Healing isn't doing it's thing.

I just like having Combat Jumping and Super Leap around meanwhile, on that end. Also, Jab early, because Jab makes me smile.

Presence I tacked onto the end because I thought it would be funny, really I'm open to anything for the last 3 powers.

Why do this then? Spite? Insanity? An attempt to pry myself away from 'better' secondary powers in a punishing fashion? Tired of turning on lots of toggles? Even I'm not completely sure, beyond wanting to try. Since Sets are not a factor, it's all down to slotting order basically. However, my lack of experience with Regeneration means even in this I'm kind of hazy.

Slot my click powers early and fill in the attack blanks later? Skimp on the Regeneration slotting until later levels where the enemies hurt more, and multi slotting would actually have tangible benefits? (Really, 3 slot Fast Healing at level 3 will do what exactly?). This isn't exactly intuitive to me like my Generics slotted BS/WP Scrapper was. Parrying and stabbing his way to 50 like the implacable slasher movie antagonists he was meant to emulate.

Finally, the build of questionable integrity. Thanks in advance for all advice, even people saying 'Use Sets you idiot!', because even those people are just trying to help me by telling me to do the smart thing instead of the insane thing.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

SS Regen Brute SO Test: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Jab -- Acc(A), EndRdx(5), Dmg(25), Dmg(36), Dmg(42), Acc(45)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal(A), Heal(3), Heal(3)
Level 2: Punch -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Acc(23), Dmg(27), Dmg(36)
Level 4: Reconstruction -- Heal(A), RechRdx(7), Heal(21), Heal(21), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(43)
Level 6: Haymaker -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Acc(23), Dmg(27), Dmg(36), RechRdx(43)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Acc(A), Acc(9), Dmg(9), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), RechRdx(37)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Heal(A), Heal(13), Heal(13), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(43)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod(A), EndMod(15), EndMod(15)
Level 14: Taunt -- Taunt(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Heal(A), Heal(17), Heal(17), EndRdx(34)
Level 18: Rage -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), ToHit(46), ToHit(46), ToHit(46)
Level 20: Resilience -- ResDam(A)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(40)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Heal(A), Heal(29), Heal(29), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(31)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(37), EndRdx(37)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Acc(A), Acc(33), RechRdx(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod(A), EndMod(48), EndMod(48)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- Heal(A), Heal(42), Heal(42)
Level 44: Challenge -- Acc(A)
Level 47: Intimidate -- Acc(A), Acc(48)
Level 49: Invoke Panic -- Acc(A), Acc(50), Fear(50), Fear(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(45), Heal(45)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A)

There's enough difference between lvl 50 SO's and common IO's that a great deal of your slotting is going to slap you into the ED cap pretty hard. Others with the numbers committed to memory will be able to help more specifically, but basically with Recharge you can get roughly similar numbers with 2 IOs as you can with 3 SOs. Lower to be sure, but since you aren't after bleeding edge performance, the difference is pretty minimal. I am certain though, that the 3rd IO is mostly wasted in most cases.

I don't think you need to worry about the to-hit enh in Rage, but since I have no experience with SS, I can't really speak to that, just a gut feeling.

Drop presence, consider Soul Mastery for Gloom and DN. Slot them both up. Since you don't have the option of taking shadow meld and aren't building defense bonuses rolling around with the -to-hit would be a nice bump in survivability.

Hypothetically speaking, nrg mastery might be overkill if you properly slot of endredux, which it looks like you've got under control. Max rechage as much as you can, especially in your secondary. You'll live and die by those.

Consider the following:

Tough and Weave.

Leadership pool if you keep energy mastery.

Burnout. Yes it has a stupidly long recharge. Yes it has a crazy endurance penalty. But it will allow you to do lots of interesting things with regen clicks, like back to back MOG or stacking Dull Pain.

Not on a Mids machine at the moment, but this idea is interesting to me so I'll probably take a deeper look. Finally, you'll get lots of nay-sayers telling you to skip regen, especially without sets. Meh to all that. If you're having fun with it, go for it.

Would be an interesting experiment to see this combo on pure commons or just SOs.

Yeah, considering with Regeneration your protection is A) Your health, and B) Nothing, that's part of my wishy washy slotting and hope for insight. Don't want to skimp on the early Regen power slotting, but don't want the Attacks to hit like a feather duster either. I'd probably reconsider my early level slotting several times before creating (3 slotting the Click heals early, and waiting till late in to add recharges probably wouldnt be too bad).

I guess I forgot to mention I'd be Blueside, really should have specified. I wasn't considering Patron pools. Not to mention those would be no help to me anyways until I claw my way up to high levels. Plus I'd have to slot those up a good chunk to be of benefit even if I did.

Energy Mastery was more because it was easy access passives, and a little bit more Regen.

Tough and Weave could be nice end level pick ups, since Regen only has the one toggle. I just only tend to bother with Tough if I already have some Resistance to stack it onto, and Weave I dont bother much with cause 2.28% pre slotting for that End cost? really?

Good ideas though, thanks. And yeah Burnout should have been an obvious idea to get Instant Healing ready more often, sometimes pointing out the obvious is important. I think my controller's hatred of all the Super Speed 'tanks' rushing off and leaving the squishy people to die in LAMS had set my subconscious against more than Hasten.

EDIT: Also, yeah, seeing how this works out with No sets is part of it. Can a power set exist that really has no functionality without set bonuses? In a game where the loading screen mocks you every so often saying 'The game was not designed with enhancements in mind, you can still play fine without them'. I won't deny Willpower feels a heck of a lot 'better' than Regen straight out of the box, but I'd hate to think any primary or secondary is useless.

Go back and read some of the older guides to learn about SO slotting. I believe IO's hit in I9 so look at pre-I9 guides.

I would definitely take tough and weave.

I'm so used to the guides being basically almost nothing but respec builds full of purples, and many wildly out of date even then, that I hadn't thought to look at all. Plus the initial minsdet was 'look for Brute stuff in the Brute boards' even though Regeneration is the long time Scrapper showcase, so I should have thought of that, again, sometimes pointing out the obvious to the OP is needed.

But Checking out scrapper stuff for some guidelines about Regeneration itself didn't hurt, even if it wasn't much help. I ignored the Katana/ Guides because those would most likely (and rightly so) be all about the Divine avalanche spam, The closest to an SS user would be the MA/Regen guides.

Though, upon checking out the ancient Regen Guides... They seem to have less clue than I do. Single Slot Fast Healing? Respecing Reconstruction out of your build? (I hate respec builds, both in concept, and because I exemplar to help altoholic friends constantly). Banking on Perma Hasten from back when that was possible with SO and scrounging the Pool powers for Defense? (Okay, so that last bit is still a modern concept). So, no help on that end to be found. Besides, loading up on every single Pool power that gives any shred of Defense like more than one old guide suggests isn't exactly 'Simple Regeneration standing on it's own merits'. That wouldn't be 'Regeneration is viable itself', that's just 'Defense bonuses, Yaaaay!'.

Although, the out of date I Feel the Earth Move- A Guide to the Earth/Sonic (HotButteredSoul) [I7] was a wonderful basis for my very first controller (with some tweaks to account for inherent fitness and personal preference). My first 50 on Freedom and First Incarnate. So some out of date guides can still be great to anyone. Good advice to check those old guides Shocklust, even if it didn't get results this time.

Tough: Okay, I agree with taking this. Combined with the bit of passive resistance Resliance gives, Tough would actually end up giving decent S/L totals. If I went for Burnout though, Not sure where I'd fit Boxing/Kick and Tough though unless I skipped both Revive and Assault, though the latter is easily skippable thanks to RAAAAAGE!. I'd like to keep Revive in the build so when I inevitably die, I'm not slowing anyone down, but that may not be an option (Though now, I could skip CJ, as much as it pains me, love that thing, and just get Super Jump).
Nowhere to Fit Weave at all even if I wanted it, unless I skipped Burnout.

Weave: Why? Just, why? I know basically everyone loves it for their defense based builds (Which makes sense, trying to squeeze every last single digit percent they can, endurance costs be damned. (My 'every form of non Set Endurance management' MA/SR scrapper still falls flat on his fast out of breath running just the SR toggles), but how does a Defense of 3.5%-almost 6% if you 3 slot it, help when that's all you have? (Well, that and like, +2% more out of Combat jumping, which I might have to skip anyway).
I can understand 'So you have something to shove more defense sets into' if that's why it is so popular logic, but no sets here. What purpose does weave serve unless you are desperately scrounging for any and all Defense numbers, which is not the case here? Of course, I'm one of those people who looks at DnD players getting excited about being able to Crit with daggers on a 19 and go '...So?'.

EDIT: Well, here's the revised 'I am Insane' Build which I will most likely be going with. The only 'problem' I figure is the lack of recharge to my low level click powers until late in, but it's that or hitting like sissy until late in, and Recharge would be picked up before the bigshot events.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

SS Regen Brute SO Test THREE: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), EndRdx-I(7), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(42)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(11), Heal-I(11)
Level 2: Punch -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(42)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(42)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(13), RechRdx-I(13), Heal-I(40), RechRdx-I(40), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(23), Dmg-I(23), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(15), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 14: Taunt -- Taunt-I(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(17)
Level 18: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19), ToHit-I(48), ToHit-I(48), ToHit-I(48)
Level 20: Resilience -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(36)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 26: Boxing -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(29), Heal-I(29), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(36), ResDam-I(36), ResDam-I(37)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(33), EndRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(34)
Level 35: Revive -- Heal-I(A), EndMod-I(43), EndMod-I(43), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(45)
Level 47: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Burnout -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(46), Heal-I(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)

Here's my take on it, from having horribly and extensively rebuilt a ***/Regen FAR too many times. (He is my main, but now retired, since I've got a great many other toons that do what he does for a lot less pain, investment, and agony)

And yes, the slots/enhancements are how I'd suggest with SO's/lvl 25/30 commons as you level. (25's are ~ -3 SO's, while 30's are ~ +1, IIRC)

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

30 IO's are as good as SO's.: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(3), Dmg-I:30(13), Dmg-I:30(31), Dmg-I:30(36), RechRdx-I:30(48)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I:30(A), Heal-I:30(42), Heal-I:30(43)
Level 2: Haymaker -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(3), Dmg-I:30(13), Dmg-I:30(31), Dmg-I:30(34)
Level 4: Reconstruction -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(5), RechRdx-I:30(5), Heal-I:30(25), Heal-I:30(36), Heal-I:30(37)
Level 6: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(7), EndMod-I:30(7)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(9), Dmg-I:30(9), Dmg-I:30(31), Dmg-I:30(34), RechRdx-I:30(48)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(11), RechRdx-I:30(11), Heal-I:30(25), Heal-I:30(36), Heal-I:30(37)
Level 12: Boxing -- Acc-I:30(A)
Level 14: Tough -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(15), ResDam-I:30(15)
Level 16: Integration -- Heal-I:30(A), Heal-I:30(17), Heal-I:30(17)
Level 18: Rage -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(19), RechRdx-I:30(19)
Level 20: Resilience -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(21), ResDam-I:30(21)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(23), RechRdx-I:30(23)
Level 24: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 26: Burnout -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(27), RechRdx-I:30(27)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(29), RechRdx-I:30(29), Heal-I:30(50), Heal-I:30(50), Heal-I:30(50)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- Jump-I:30(A)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(34), RechRdx-I:30(40)
Level 35: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(40), EndMod-I:30(40)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(39), RechRdx-I:30(39)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(42), EndMod-I:30(42), Heal-I:30(46), Heal-I:30(46), Heal-I:30(46)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(45), Dmg-I:30(45), Dmg-I:30(45), EndRdx-I:30(48)
Level 47: Stealth -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 49: Revive -- RechRdx-I:30(A)
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:30(A), Heal-I:30(43), Heal-I:30(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:30(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(37), EndMod-I:30(39)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:30(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:30(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run

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Don't forget the other half of the 'balanced around SOs' thing: Balanced around +0/x1 difficulty.

Back before the detailed custom difficulty I think diff 2 and 4, the ones with 'lots' of enemies to fight solo, gave you as many enemies per spawn as x2 does now. Perhaps x3.

That's right. The most difficult any character could get without filling was either level 4 (+1/x2) or level 5 (+2/x1 ).

When I get rolling in a setup, my personal preference is +0x3 (bosses actually show up at regular intervals). Of course, an Elec/Elec Tanker, Bots/Dark MM, and Earth/Sonic Controller that I'm more familiar with of late tend to have a lot more in the way of crowd murder. So I'll have to survive into slotted out Footstomp territory most likely before I'm comfortable taking on that many Mobs at once unless the Fury and Single Target goodness are particularly vicious.

This is as much an experiment of 'Can Regen stand on it's own out of the box merits' as anything. By comparison to other powers like Willpower (Helooooo Rise To the Challenge. Why yes, I DO like better than minus Instant Healing Regeneration totals, on top of all the WP extras), no duh Regen is going to look like my tiny self at the Kickball team picks.

I can see Errant's reasoning for Burnout ASAP, burnout early means two doses of back to back Instant Healing available earlier, if only possible every 15 minutes or so, minus Hasten effect. As for the stealth, I guess that's there to combine with Super Speed to sneak through content if needed? Personal Preference wise, I'd rather have the 'Ooops, I died' button early and the New 'snap game in half' Burnout as the waiting prize at 49 to aid my crazy self through Incarnate Content... If I make it that far. Plus Regeneration 'working as intended'.
That, and I cringe whenever I have less than two accuracy outside of /Devices users with a Target Drone. Could work just as well, my preferences just lead elsewhere.

Speakin of Incarnates, what Alpha and Destiny would be the most benefit in the end? Spiritual feels like the obvious Alpha (Squeeze a bit more healing and Recharge out of the ED), but Destiny wise I'm hazy beyond 'Not Clarion'.

SS tip: 1 accuracy SO is all you need with permaRage (which you have with 3 recharge in Rage). This will allow a bit more flexibility for attack slotting. I leveled a SS/DA brute back in the preIO days so I do know what I'm talking about here.

I agree with the points that Regeneration's self Rez is incredibly low frills. But then, It also means Max HP and basically full Endurance the second you stand up (at least with a little love), and no crashes like various other Self Rez powers. I'd rather have Revive over Stealth, and while I'm not working with sets I could, um... maybe stick a Stealth Unique into Super Speed if I was desperate (Also, I have a loathing for all Super Speed/Stealth using Tanks/Brutes from many a LAM death as the fragile sorts are left behind with the aggro now. I'd get Hasten and Flurry if I didn't know for a fact I'd never use flurry)

I would rather not rely on Yellow inspirations (or rely on inspirations at all, that path leads to Luck addictions) while waiting for my Accuracy to be up to par again, plus I often end up exemplared to lowbie levels anyways helping altoholic friends, though at those lower levels just the one acc slot wouldn't be so bad either. So at higher levels when the Accuracy IO's are stronger, could switch out an acc slot for something else... So keeping 2 accuracy in Knockout Blow forever though because life is pain when that misses.

Burnout, grabbing it sooner is the new smart thing. Alas, if I were doing the smart thing I'd be using Willpower for the Nth time (Like I will be for a StJ/WP scrapper once we ever get out dang paragon points). But this is about seeing if I can claw my way to 50 without PLs based on classical Regeneration. Throwing in the glorious wonders of Burnout into that mix throws off that insane and stupid journey with common sense!.

Common Sense has no place here in my sick deluded world.

I also foresee 'needing', and using a Rez a lot more frequently than using Burnout (15 minute wait with 3 slot, minus any hasten bonus) and 'needing' it every single time Instant Healing wears off. Unless No-Set regeneration turns out all kinds of awesome, in which case I wouldn't have needed Burnout to live anyways.

Totally getting burnout sometime, but my mindset has it for 'save it for an AV fight' more than 'I will always want to use this thing but I can't most of the time'. By the time I somehow make it to 50, I'll have earned that Burnout.

Destiny is a headscratcher to me, because you have options like 'even more recharge and recovery' (which is good, obviously), alongside 'Heal+HP cap buff' or 'Heal+Regen buff'. For the latter two I'm hazy because I'm unsure of the math for determining which would give more overall benefit, seeing how Regen is also Max health oriented (or does only Base health factor there?).

Thanks for all the insights though, you're all very patient in dealing with a crazy man and his stupid plan.

Well I'm definitely going to trust the insight into 'You only need one Accuracy for SS attacks' at the very least now, so that's one questionable decision I've made gone.

Can't say having a Recharge slot in Knockout Blow that much sooner won't be a joy.

I tend to skip Jab, you could always lot Boxing a bit instead.

The problem with Revive is not that it's a 'no frills' rez, but that since it has no untouchable period, you may use it and die again by the time the animation ends, unlike most other self rezzes you can safely use in the middle of mobs. So it's worse than a wakie without a stun. I did use wakie+breakfree in the middle of a battle and managed to survive with some teammate giving me end (SB or whatever) or using a blue to retoggle on various toons, but with Revive you have to wait for the animation to end (unless you use 4 purples, not sure if you can, I never had the power, only saw a million complaints about the 'Revive+faceplant' situation on the scrapper forums).

Assault is near useless on a Brute since they benefit little from +damage bonuses due to low base damage and Fury.

I'm with you on not taking Weave if you're only gonna have like 5-7% def (CJ+Weave).

A lot can happen in 1.5 seconds, it's true. If Mid's is right Revive only has a 1.5 Second cast, but it's got a 4 second 50 Mag Immobilize. But then, so do most Rez Inspirations (I'd have to peek at some of the higher ones in game if they dropped the Immob along with the Stun), even bounce backs have the 50 Mag Immobilize, the 5 Mag Stun (which Resilience deals with), but also 10 seconds of being unable to regain endurance for everything above a bare bones Awaken, which does 20 seconds.

You'd need FIVE small purples to bypass the Immobilize of either, and nothing will make you regain endurance faster for the Inspirations. Even an Immortal Recovery, while it gives you 25 End, still has the 10 seconds of No endurance gains. So while Revive is indeed lame compared to the self Rez powers that light people on fire and grant invincibility, it's sure a lot better than Inspirations. Even with Revive, I still wouldn't bother slotting it till post 40 as 'well, I'm not slotting much else' placements.

I like jab, It's fast, better damage than just auto attacking with Brawl, Integration and Tough would be the only toggles draining endurance so my blue bar wouldn't suffer for it. Okay, Boxing has slightly higher damage than Jab. Boxing also takes more end, longer to recharge, half the Stun duration when it kicks in, no Taunt (according to Mids), and most importantly, wouldn't be picked up until later levels.

Why skip Jab? Still need to be at least level 6 to get Boxing. Getting it early would mean putting off Reconstruction, or Knockout Blow, or Dull Pain, or Quick Recovery, Integration, Rage, etc etc all kinds of things so much better than Boxing. You could maybe cram it in at level 14, instead of Taunt or some other pool power. But, why? You will already have Jab.

Or, Boxing at Lv 12 if you skipped Jab, if you didn't skip any of your secondaries, and still picked up all your Primary attacks except Handclap to that point. You basically have to go well out of your way to use a Pool power as a primary attack, just for the sake of skipping Jab, and having less attacks to work with in your early levels.

Sure, Brawl is zero endurance and just as fast as Jab if you were considering Jab as nothing but Fury Filler, but I'll be running all of two toggles, Integration and Tough, on top of sticking an End reduction in Jab. So Endurance efficiency isn't exactly a problem there.

Good point about how Assault would be extra bad due to base damage, I forgot it worked off that. Though I had decided in the end to skip Assault for other reasons.

I'd advocate weave. with 2 generic defense io's, it's good for 5.61%. This'll cut incoming damage by 11.22%, not insignificant.
Even with just an endredux in the base slot, 3.75% def will reduce incoming damage by 7.5%

I'm not a fan of revive.

Assuming you just can't bring yourself to pay 1K-1M for a low-end dual or triple IO (level 25+) and would rather pay 150K-1M for a Common IO, then I have to recommend choosing a different secondary. The math likes the cheap sets, even factoring in cost, but math is hard.

Regen is a painful experience on the cheap. I should know, I've tried it - with Common IOs, even! Regen needs set bonuses to be passable in endgame content. You just won't ever have enough HP or regen to cover incoming damage, especially since Regen Brutes have a taunt aura. You'll get everything's attention, vaporize during the alpha or beta, and probably lose one of your click heals for a while because it didn't activate quickly enough to save you.

SS/WP is a classic cheapskate combo. You get regen, HP, resistance, and defense. You don't need any more recharge than it takes to make Rage permanent, which can be done easily without set bonuses. WP fits your Regen theme, too, if that's important. You'll even be endgame competent.

If you just can't quit Regen and you just can't quit the addiction to Common IOs, then at least replace the third Common in any power with a cheap double. That way, you won't waste any enhancement bonuses banging your head against the wall of ED. You'll even get a perk on the side, like better endurance management or a little more recharge.

Streetlight, every single thing you said is true.

Willpower gives you better regeneration than the entire regeneration secondary when Instant Healing isn't on, before you have any enemies nearby to amp Rise To The Challenge. When surrounded by enemies you hit almost 1k% according to Mr Mids.

That's why my second 50 was a Broadsword/WP scrapper. It's also why my Street Justice user is of course, going to be Willpower.

Alas, the theme isn't 'Regeneration like SS user', the theme is 'Insane Moron Makes Kamikaze Charge With No-Set Or Pool Power Gimmicks Regeneration Secondary SS User'. Which is why such sane advice like 'Burnout will let you stack Instant healing every 15 minutes' is Ignored, while more basic things like 'You only need 1 accuracy for super strength' works into the plan.

This is a Gag character (Who complains about all these punk kids with their new fangled Street Justice, in his day you had to pay to adjust your difficulty! And we had to kill Freakshow uphill both ways!), as well as an adventure to see for myself where in the scale between 'No good compared to other powers' and 'This power is a waste of space, thanks Devs!' is on it's own merit.

Every time I look at Mids and compare Willpower to Regeneration, my brain can't quite comprehend the truth of the matter. Because they wouldn't have such a useless out of the box secondary, right? The truth shall hurt, but like a trainwreck I won't be able to look away.

That's cool, I can understand going for concept.

If you go all-out with Accolades (Eye of the Magus, Geas of the Kind Ones, Elusive Mind, TFC, Atlas Medallion, Portal Jockey, Freedom Phalanx), you could find more survivability. Regen LOVES Spiritual Alpha, so that'd help a ton. Normally, I'd say Barrier or Rebirth Destiny, but the recharge from Ageless might be even better for this character. Pets (Lore or temp) can take alpha strikes. Anyway, it might work out if you have the time to spend on it or a hyperactive helper of some sort.

EDIT: And, though it goes without saying, inspirations will work wonders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserAddict Every time I look at Mids and compare Willpower to Regeneration, my brain can't quite comprehend the truth of the matter. Because they wouldn't have such a useless out of the box secondary, right? The truth shall hurt, but like a trainwreck I won't be able to look away.

If you ever do decide to drop a truckload of INF on it, Regen can outperform WP. That's the curse of the set. It offers one particular piece of the survivability puzzle, but requires a lot more pieces to be great. Once you get MoG cycling quickly and some defense in place, it really ramps up.

Was re-reading some brute regen threads because I had a crazy idea for a new toon. I am so glad I found this thread. Thank you OP for reminding me that the powerset formerly known as regen was murdered. I know exactly what the poster above me (on phone, can't remember name, sorry) is talking about. I just can't bear to play a self-empathy toon anymore. Hell I advocated for a name change by comparing all of the powers from Empathy and Self Empathy once and was nearly murdered!

Anyways, how's your project going?

Bored at work, found the thread I mentioned above.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=273029&page=6

Apparently no one liked what I was trying to point out.

Thinking of undertaking thi journey myself, and making a sort of blog out of it.