Street Justice: What AT?
By
BigBlackAfrica,
Posted on: 2011-10-04 12:52 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Aside from concept (Which is important but I am focusing on min/max), but from a min/max standpoint Scrappers and this set are leagues beyond Brutes with this set. Every one of their attacks with the set can critical, in fact, I'd say Crushing Uppercut breaks the original rule of no Scrapper critical exceeding a 12.666 Brawl Index with the exception of Headsplitter (and I forget the original reason but that was stated by Geko, the original designer a long time ago).
On Brutes the set's AOE is pretty crappy when compared to Super Strength. Likewise, the single target DPS of each set when min/maxing means you are going to take Gloom because it is one of the highest DPA attacks in the game. The thing here is, once again you get slightly penalized as a Street Justice Brute because by mixing in other attacks you run the risk of losing combo points which is losing DPS. Since the highest single target attack chains involve spamming Gloom this will hurt Street Justice. Even when fighting with the 7.5% debuff it still lacks in single target DPS compared to Super Strength and the duration of that debuff is so short it becomes very minute against anything higher then an even con. (Its base 5 seconds even con).
Going into further thought, if you are min / maxing DPS you go Fiery Aura. For some unknown reason, this set is penalized by Fiery Embrace. Fiery Embrace does not effect combo's higher then 0, in other words, Fiery Embrace works by increasing total damage by 45% IE KO Blow is 9.8889 Brawl Index FE would increase this 45% *AFTER* enhancement and damage buffs. In Street Justice its only increasing the level 0 attack IE Crushing Uppercut is a BI of around 8 (its slightly higher) its 45% is modified off of that number and not the combo level 3 which is around 11.052 brawl.
Finally, for some other reason the set is once again penalized because some attacks are effected by Fiery Embrace by 25% and not 45%. No other set in the game has this penalty and why some attacks only get 25% of the benefit has me left wondering and wanting an explanation.
Ultimately, this is probably one of the highest single target DPS sets in the game For Scrappers but for Brutes its still in the shadow of Super Strength which superior in AOE and single target DPS.
Edit: And to give an idea of how hard this set crits with a Scrapper, Level 50 Scrapper BI is 22.5 damage, Crushing Uppercut with Critical + Tier 3 (The critical is only factored on the base but Tier 3 adds approximately 3 brawl) puts the attack around 21 Brawl Index. A Stalker's Assassin Strike is around 22 Brawl Index with a modifier of .9 (Or are they 1.0 now? Scrappers are 1.112 or 1.2 with Critical factored in) -- Basically at level 50 a Scrapper with no damage buffs at all can hit for 22.5 X 21 Brawl Index = 447.63 damage (This is the actual number, its slightly less then 21 Brawl Index) while a stalker's level 50 Assassin Strike is only 389.28 damage.
2nd Edit: then if you factor in an extra 7.5% from the -resistance it increases that number further but the point is made.
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This isn't completely true anymore.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
And basically, going Tanker tends to mean you care less about damage and more on survival.
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The devs seem to be making Tanks far, far better on the DPS front.
Look at how they chose to proliferate MA to tankers, if they get enough recharge to keep their 33% damage buff on perma and use Bruising, their single target damage is better than that of a Scrapper in most of their attacks and that is even including the average DPS increase from Criticals.
If the Devs keep that trend up with SJ (I have no idea how different they are) then Tanks would most certainly be a fair choice.
I have a StJ/Invuln brute at level 14, trying to decide what combos to use on a Scrapper and Tank.
Leaning toward SR for a tank and Energy Aura for a scrapper. Any reason I should reconsider either of those choices?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Wouldn't it be better on Brutes?|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Aside from concept (Which is important but I am focusing on min/max), but from a min/max standpoint Scrappers and this set are leagues beyond Brutes with this set. Every one of their attacks with the set can critical, in fact, I'd say Crushing Uppercut breaks the original rule of no Scrapper critical exceeding a 12.666 Brawl Index with the exception of Headsplitter (and I forget the original reason but that was stated by Geko, the original designer a long time ago).
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Considering the combo system gains full benefit from Fury but no benefit from criticals, it seems like a no brainer from a min/max viewpoint.
Half of an inherent is less than a full inherent.
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I have discovered what may be an issue with brutes. |
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Wouldn't it be better on Brutes?
Considering the combo system gains full benefit from Fury but no benefit from criticals, it seems like a no brainer from a min/max viewpoint. Half of an inherent is less than a full inherent. |
My other brutes tend to hover at around +167% damage bonus running at full fury, my Street Justice brute, on the other hand, is apparently maxing out at just under +150%. A full 10% or so less than my other brutes.
My brute is only level 14 at the moment, so that could be a factor, and I need to get more data before I say anything is broken, but it seems like Street Justice is not building as much fury as other sets.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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My SR/StJ tank is at 9.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I have a StJ/Invuln brute at level 14, trying to decide what combos to use on a Scrapper and Tank.
Leaning toward SR for a tank and Energy Aura for a scrapper. Any reason I should reconsider either of those choices? |
Based on my various beta tests, I liked the SR/ because it is low maintenance, and lets attention stay focused on the combos. (That and I just wanted at least one SR/ tank...)
From a concept perspective, the pairing sets up a nice natural origin character, and if you go minimal FX on SR/ you get a clean/natural look when playing.
From a more numbers oriented perspective, it has a ton of places for LotG +rech, and thanks to the Sig Arc and various alts, I have 5 of them at level 25 waiting to slot with SOs to keep the combos cooking.
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For the tank, I suggest ELA! Why? For one, SR is just kinda...boring. Toggle and go, just like WP.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I have a StJ/Invuln brute at level 14, trying to decide what combos to use on a Scrapper and Tank.
Leaning toward SR for a tank and Energy Aura for a scrapper. Any reason I should reconsider either of those choices? |
Next, ELA just isn't used as much with the StJ pairing. In all the StJ users I saw yesterday (and I by no means saw them all), I saw one FA Brute, a couple Regen Brutes, and everything else being SR, INV, WP, EA (I can only assume that's because of it's recent buffs).
Why not go after something that gives a 20% +Recharge, and awesome slow resist (40% which when combined with a Winter's Gift IO, is 60%), can get to 90% S/L Resist, and still hit 45% S/L Defense.
You get all the ELA powers early which is nice, so END problems are less of a worry, and added AOE damage with the damage aura.
For Tanker, that's what I would go with...the fact that I hadn't seen one makes it seem like an even better reason to go for it.
As for EA on the Scrapper, sure, why not.
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I was considering SR on a tank because A) I don't have one yet, and B) I'm looking for a character that performs well on a shoestring budget.
That said, I don't have an Electric tank either. I'm leaning toward defense based sets because I have the name Defense Mechanism on my home server, and I'm looking for something to use it for (Claws/EA brute at the moment, but I have too many Claws characters already, so I'm looking to swap it)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I did ELA on my StJ Tanker, mostly because I wanted to but also because in my thread on the Tanker forums you made it sound cool.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
For the tank, I suggest ELA! Why? For one, SR is just kinda...boring. Toggle and go, just like WP.
Next, ELA just isn't used as much with the StJ pairing. In all the StJ users I saw yesterday (and I by no means saw them all), I saw one FA Brute, a couple Regen Brutes, and everything else being SR, INV, WP, EA (I can only assume that's because of it's recent buffs). Why not go after something that gives a 20% +Recharge, and awesome slow resist (40% which when combined with a Winter's Gift IO, is 60%), can get to 90% S/L Resist, and still hit 45% S/L Defense. You get all the ELA powers early which is nice, so END problems are less of a worry, and added AOE damage with the damage aura. For Tanker, that's what I would go with...the fact that I hadn't seen one makes it seem like an even better reason to go for it. As for EA on the Scrapper, sure, why not. |
Up to 22. I really like it thus far. I was main tanking for a 43 mission team at level 20 and had only one defeat, and that was because I ran out of power. ELA seemed really good, even at that level.
I saw more StJ Brutes than Scrappers, and FAR more of both than Tankers. I saw maybe two other Tankers in all the time I spent in Atlas.
I'm not totally sure I disagree with the statement (made earlier in the thread) that Tankers don't really have much of a place any more, but personally I still would rather play a Tanker.
Also, I'm leaning toward the sets I mentioned because I'm shooting for more of a natural themed character (natural human I mean, not a natural alien)
SR fits the bill nicely, and I can come up with a backstory to justify EA (force field generating belt buckle anyone?)
Electric is in the running, but It's not a clear winner for me yet. Pretty settled on the scrapper being EA.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I understand Street Justice 'Spinning Strike' at combo level 3 produces a terrorize effect.
Would there be any synergy in going Dark / Street Justice on a tanker?
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No because what makes Brutes generally better in most cases then Scrappers is having powersets with much larger brawl indexes then Scrapper sets. IE most Brute sets have brawl indexes of 4.5556 with an extreme attack of 9.889. |
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Wouldn't it be better on Brutes?
Considering the combo system gains full benefit from Fury but no benefit from criticals, it seems like a no brainer from a min/max viewpoint. Half of an inherent is less than a full inherent. |
Originally, the highest damage Scrapper attacks were 6.333 brawl index maxing out at a 12.666 critical which was the same brawl as Energy Transfer (The highest single target damage attack in game with no criticals... excluding Assassin Strike).
Like Super Strength breaks the "mold" for Brutes, this set breaks the mold for Scrappers. Its extreme attack is getting the full critical bonus when originally an attack of 9.889 only got a critical bonus bringing it up to 12.666 -- Example would be Stalkers and Total Focus which is 9.889 when it criticals it only brings its damage up to 12.666 because that was originally the balance cap set in place by Geko and Castle preceding him.
Looks like its meh on stalkers. Also the AS is almost as slow as ninja blade and broadsword.