Which is the better stealth power?


all_hell

 

Posted

Concealment or Cloaking Device?


 

Posted

If you mean Concealment pool Stealth or Cloaking Device, then Cloaking Device is better, though not by much.

It costs slightly less endurance and does not have the speed debuff.


 

Posted

Hm. Okay. What about detection by the enemy? Which is better suited?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCPulpWriter View Post
Hm. Okay. What about detection by the enemy? Which is better suited?
I believe they're the same in that regard. And they're both the same as Superspeed, stealth-wise.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCPulpWriter View Post
Concealment or Cloaking Device?
Depends on which AT your talking about

Device Cloaking Device offers you 2.5% suppressed defense

VEAT Cloaking Device offers you 5% suppressed defense

Concealment Stealth offers you 2.5% suppressed defense

Perception bonus is not important in PvE because either your built for it or not. In PvP has minimal use unless your a Stalker that benefits from the stealth EG Assassin Strike.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
I believe they're the same in that regard. And they're both the same as Superspeed, stealth-wise.
Same stealth radius, but Super Speed's stealth will not suppress if you are attacked (even if you are hit).


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Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
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Posted

I like to take Super Speed and slot in a Celerity: +Stealth invention origin enhancement. The concealment stacks (for 65-foot stealth) and you get the best two dimensional travel power. You can even run Super Speed while flying or teleporting (I don't know about jumping, but I assume it's possible.)

That much stealth will protect you from detection against everything except snipers, giant monsters, and some of the Rikti Drones.

All this for one power selection. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.


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Posted

I've a DP/Devices Blaster. I like to sneak up and drop some trip mines in a mob of enemies. I also drop some timed mines, careful to make sure both go off at the same time. I use Stealth & Phase Shift. The PS is just in case they see me, they can't do a thing. At which point I unphase and let the trip mine blow up just as I unleash Hail of Bullets.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCPulpWriter View Post
I've a DP/Devices Blaster. I like to sneak up and drop some trip mines in a mob of enemies. I also drop some timed mines, careful to make sure both go off at the same time. I use Stealth & Phase Shift. The PS is just in case they see me, they can't do a thing. At which point I unphase and let the trip mine blow up just as I unleash Hail of Bullets.
You can lay mines while Phase Shifted?! Really?! Awesome. Now I gotta work it in on my Trapper.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1 View Post
I like to take Super Speed and slot in a Celerity: +Stealth invention origin enhancement. The concealment stacks (for 65-foot stealth) and you get the best two dimensional travel power. You can even run Super Speed while flying or teleporting (I don't know about jumping, but I assume it's possible.)

That much stealth will protect you from detection against everything except snipers, giant monsters, and some of the Rikti Drones.

All this for one power selection. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.
I prefer to put my stealth IO in sprint so that I can decide whether I want stealth or not with my travel power.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
I prefer to put my stealth IO in sprint so that I can decide whether I want stealth or not with my travel power.
Just out of curiousity, under what circumstances would you not want stealth in your travel power? I can understand that you don't always NEED it, but when would it be an actual detriment?

Celerity +Stealth could be slotted in Sprint, Swift, or Super Speed. They each have their pros and cons.

If you put it in Swift, then you ALWAYS have some stealth running. (I tend to put a flight speed enhancement here.)

If you put it in Super Speed, then it automatically stacks with Super Speed's stealth component. One power selection gives you a lot of stealth.

But if you put it in Sprint, then you have to run two or three powers to get the most stealth. Super Speed, Sprint, and possibly another travel power. The endurance costs add up, and for some builds it might be too much.


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Posted

I don't think the Fitness movement powers take sets any more.


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Farewell is like the end
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Posted

For me it's more that sometimes I want stealth but not super speed. Typically if I take SS it's one of my last throwaway picks at 47 or 49. A stealth IO here becomes useless when exemplared. A stealth IO in sprint can be used at any level.

Also, and this is a frivolous concern but one I suspect is not unique to me, sometimes you don't want to have the frankly ugly transparency effect that a stealth IO produces active on your character. Zero impact on gameplay, more of a niggling annoyance.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCPulpWriter View Post
Hm. Okay. What about detection by the enemy? Which is better suited?
Missed this part.

As far as detection by enemies I can tell you that Sniper type mobs and high perception mobs like Rikti Drones will see through super speed and cloaking device combo if you get in close enough. If your using Device secondary set then smoke grenade will help defeat their perception bonus.

But beyond that issue you can stand next to a mob with Super speed on and a cloaking power and not be seen.

If you are seen by a mob it will now alert all the mobs around them. Once your attacked you will notice your stealth is suppressed, you will be come less transparent. If you do not attack back and run away it will eventually reset. But as long as your visible you will seen by ever other mob you encounter. So if your running a 4/8 setting with a bunch of mobs and your spotted it could be some time before you find a safe spot to reset your aggro. I know being lazy sometimes I failed to eat a purple inspiration and tried zipping around a Rikti map and just ended up getting seen, attacked and died trying to find a safe spot to reset cloaking device.

The issue with not attacking back is once you attack the mobs will follow you around if you don't go far enough away. So that "safe spot" might have been around the corner but now your screwed because you attacked and the mobs are chasing you down and keep breaking your stealth.

This is why I mentioned in my previous post about being set up properly.

Just about all my builds have super speed with the stealth IO proc in it. As I mentioned depending on the build I just eat a Purple inspiration and zip around the map to get to the end I use the elevator areas to reset the stealth. I use this technique a lot during TIP missions.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
You can lay mines while Phase Shifted?! Really?! Awesome. Now I gotta work it in on my Trapper.
I don't think you can do anything while phase shifted except heal yourself with aid other. If he is dropping trip mines while phased it has to be a bug. It just does not make sense. Or the OP might have misspoke.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
For me it's more that sometimes I want stealth but not super speed. Typically if I take SS it's one of my last throwaway picks at 47 or 49. A stealth IO here becomes useless when exemplared. A stealth IO in sprint can be used at any level.
Ah, I see your point. Usually I run a lot of Task Forces, so I always take SS first. That way I can stealth through missions and then Recall or Assemble my team to take out the objective. Different play style, but it can make the difference between a task force taking one hour or two hours to complete.

YMMV, so whatever makes the game fun for you.


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Posted

To add to what plainguy said, detector NPCs such as snipers and rikti drones will see you through any amount of stealth, whether it comes from stealth the power, invisibility, what have you. Fortunately most enemy groups either lack detectors or they don't typically spawn in most instances in most level ranges.

When you attack, are hit by an attack, or click a glowie your stealth suppresses completely for ten seconds. Once that ten seconds has elapsed your stealth turns back on, but if you haven't put sufficient distance between things that aggroed on you in the mean time they'll likely remain angry and continue to pursue you. Breaking line of sight is important if you get spotted and want to continue to be stealthy. It's also worth noting that some enemies, most notably old fashioned clockwork, never lose aggro and will chase you any distance once you have their attention.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1 View Post
Ah, I see your point. Usually I run a lot of Task Forces, so I always take SS first. That way I can stealth through missions and then Recall or Assemble my team to take out the objective. Different play style, but it can make the difference between a task force taking one hour or two hours to complete.

YMMV, so whatever makes the game fun for you.
Oh I totally still do that, but just with the IO and ninja run. It spices it up, if you ask me. Nothing like being the one to ATT everyone to HrodToz at the end of the LGTF when you're a half-concealed blaster!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Also, and this is a frivolous concern but one I suspect is not unique to me, sometimes you don't want to have the frankly ugly transparency effect that a stealth IO produces active on your character. Zero impact on gameplay, more of a niggling annoyance.
Yeah, I sometimes put the +Stealth IO in one of the prestige sprints, which gives it an alternate graphical effect in addition to the transparency, and lets me use sprint separately when I don't care about stealth. But then I have other characters that I just the the +Stealth IO into Sprint.

It really depends on the character's appearance and general concept.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
I don't think you can do anything while phase shifted except heal yourself with aid other. If he is dropping trip mines while phased it has to be a bug. It just does not make sense. Or the OP might have misspoke.
This was changed awhile back so players who were phased could fight each other.

Also - I don't put the stealth proc in SS because that's where I put my Winter's Gift or Blessing of the Zephyr effects - sprint powers don't take universal travel sets.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1 View Post
Just out of curiousity, under what circumstances would you not want stealth in your travel power? I can understand that you don't always NEED it, but when would it be an actual detriment?
For me the main time I want more fine grained control over my stealth level is when I'm doing an escort mission. Despite the change that was made to the game a while back to have certain procs like stealth IOs shut off when the toggle they're slotted in is turned off, they do still persist sometimes. This can interfere with the ability of escorts to follow. When it happens I usually end up going AFK or just waiting around for my stealth level to drop again.

With the IO slotted into Sprint I can choose to still use my travel power to navigate the map without having Sprint active.

Since I don't usually find myself fighting with travel powers active (at least not on purpose), the endurance cost is a non-issue. I have my travel power and Sprint bound to adjacent keys, so turning them both on and off is almost as easy as just one or the other.


 

Posted

One more point is that cloaking device stealth doesn't suppress completely. Even when you attack or click a glowie, you still have 15' of stealth. Hit the enemies with a smoke grenade and you can still sneak by or click a glowie without problem.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernumiphone View Post
For me the main time I want more fine grained control over my stealth level is when I'm doing an escort mission. Despite the change that was made to the game a while back to have certain procs like stealth IOs shut off when the toggle they're slotted in is turned off, they do still persist sometimes. This can interfere with the ability of escorts to follow. When it happens I usually end up going AFK or just waiting around for my stealth level to drop again.
Ah, I see. Yeah, the Celerity stealth effect lingers for 120 seconds, I think, so that can interfere with escort missions. I usually just wait it out, perfering to have a "super speed stealth" power than multiple ones (but I also often forget to turn it off when combat happens).

Again, whatever playstyle works for you.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1 View Post
Ah, I see. Yeah, the Celerity stealth effect lingers for 120 seconds, I think, so that can interfere with escort missions. I usually just wait it out, perfering to have a "super speed stealth" power than multiple ones (but I also often forget to turn it off when combat happens).

Again, whatever playstyle works for you.
Stealth Procs persist 120 seconds after zoning when placed in a toggle power (for the same reason that healing uniques do as well - a new instance of the power is applied).


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
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Posted

Just to clear up a common misconception: Snipers do not see thru Stealth like Rikt Drones do. Snipers just have a very high Perception.

Here's how Perception and Stealth work in game:

A mob's Perception is the distance in feet that they can detect you. Most minions have a 45 Perception which means they can only detect you if you are 45 feet or closer to them. Snipers have a 149 Perception which means they can only detect you if you are 149 feet or closer to them.

Your Stealth subtracts from a mob's Perception. If you have Superspeed going that grants you 35 Stealth. This means a minion can only detect you if you're (45 - 35 =) 10 feet or closer to them. But a sniper can detect you if you're (149 - 35 =) 114 feet or closer to them.

A Stealth IO provides 30 Stealth. So if you've got a Stealth IO in Superspeed, then you've got 65 Stealth. Since this is more than a minion's Perception, then the minion cannot detect you no matter how close you stand to him. However, the Sniper can still detect you as long as you're (149 - 65 =) 84 feet or closer to them.

I don't know what Rikti Drones' Perception is, but their Perception is not affected by Stealth. So your Stealth value does NOT lower their Perception. Knives of Artemis and some Rularuu are the same way.

Snipers, however, are affected by Stealth, they're just so Perceptive that it seems like they ignore it.


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