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The problem is that while this sounds better to you, and I understand exactly where your coming from, that would take away from the experience of most. Like it or not you gotta realize most people are light RP at best, and these choices are typically cool or amusing to them. Punching someone in the teeth is much more cool or amusing to read then lackluster refuse and attack |
Originally Posted by NewScrapper
While I appreciate how new "conversational" style of dialogue with NPCs (introduced with the Going Rogue expansion) allows the devs to pack reams and reams of exposition into the new story arcs (which, to me, tends to bog things down severely, but whatever), I feel like the devs have lost site of the fact that "MMORPG" contains the letters "RP" for a reason. City of Heroes is supposed to be about role-playing, and it's really hard to roleplay when the new "conversational" style of dialogue keeps putting words in my characters' mouths that they, according to the character concepts I designed for them, would never say. Even when I'm given choices of what my character can reply, sometimes none of the choices fit -- if I were to have a character from Asgard who talks in "thees" and "thous", for example, I'd be totally out of luck finding dialogue that sounds like my character, and this degrades the roleplaying function of the game. Personally, what I would like to see is a "genericizing" of the dialogue options, such that instead of things like, <"I'll never join you! Prepare to eat my fist!"> we instead get <Refuse enemy's offer and attack him.> That would allow me to think of what my character would say and more effectively roleplay the experience, instead of feeling like I was just clicking through a rote script to get to the action.
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.That being said, most of your RP is really going to come from outside the mission dialog anyhows. I know several good RPer's and mish dialog never slows them (or my amusement at their antics).
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Eh, my RP'ing takes place in my head, since I'm a 95% soloer, which is why having dialogue put in my character's mouth is frustrating. It feels like I'm playing someone else's character (albeit with my power choices and costume design). I'm just lucky the character concepts I picked sort of blend well with the GR dialogue options, or I probably would have rerolled something else that fit better.
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Originally Posted by Soul_System
That being said, most of your RP is really going to come from outside the mission dialog anyhows.
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Yes, but what would you replace the words with? Descriptions of actions? That would be making your character DO things they wouldn't do, and we'd be back to square one.
Take the dialogue tree for Prometheus, for example. At one point, you mildly flip out and tell him off for withholding information and playing a game of chance with the entire multiverse at stake. What would YOUR character do/say there that would ADVANCE the story-tree?
Do you wanna say "Hey cool!"? Do you want to attack him? Maybe, but neither is conducive for telling the story. also, the devs would have to make up responses for every probable thing you could say/do. And they're not omniscient.
Most of the current options seem generic enough that you can pretend your character is saying something else, as long as it gets the same message across. Though we're still a ways away from having Fallout-levels of dialog tree options.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Yes, but action trees are understandable -- most action trees in the old-style CoH amount to, "Either do the mission or talk about something else." I'm not looking for infinite choices, just the "ability" to roleplay (in my head, at least) the choices I'm given according to how my character would think, speak, and feel.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Yes, but what would you replace the words with? Descriptions of actions? That would be making your character DO things they wouldn't do, and we'd be back to square one.
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| Most of the current options seem generic enough that you can pretend your character is saying something else, as long as it gets the same message across. |
Side-note: What I really find annoying is when you're given something to say in place of "Accept this mission," and the NPC responds to whatever dialogue you were given to say, even though instead of clicking on the line which means "Accept this mission" you clicked on the mission text itself. For example, let's say the mission invitation ends, "So what do you want to do?" and the acceptance text says, "I think I'm going to open up his face like a trash can and see what sort of garbage I can pull out" (or some stupid stuff like that), but instead of even seeing that like, you just click on the mission text to accept the mission. And then the NPC says, "HA! I can just see you as a garbage collector!" and you're like, "What on earth is he/she talking about?" because you never saw your preprogrammed response on the prior screen. So even if you "talk over" the text in your head, the NPC is going to remind you that all it cares about is the preprogrammed text -- i.e., you might as well just read along and forget about whatever RP'ing is going on in your head.
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There's you real problem, you just failed as an RP'er. You always make an effort, every time, till it's not an effort anymore but an instinctive reaction. Also called "getting into character".|
Originally Posted by NewScrapper
Well, yeah, but why should I have to make an "effort"
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Again I know multiple RP'ers and they adapt flawlessly to near any situation. Me I just lightly RP here and there for kicks.
This is why I think that every dialog tree where there are one or more options of your character saying something, should always have the last option be simply "..."
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You mentioned the Devs forgot about the RP aspect, well you seem to have forgotten the MMO aspect. What you're talking about is really, extremely trivial. Basically anything the Devs could do with their time would be better than spending it on fixing this. I mean, I understand you, I get the complaint. but if 95% of what you RP is in your head, why can't that include the dialogue response?|
Originally Posted by NewScrapper
Eh, my RP'ing takes place in my head, since I'm a 95% soloer
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For example:
It says in-game, "You got it Statesman! I'm gonna give Lord Recluse the biggest smackdown! Oh yeah!"
In your head you translate that to, "Aye, Statesman. I shalt pound Recluse like a tent peg into the bowels of the Earth itself. Vae victus!"
And as you also said, you aren't making an effort. And as somebody else said, that's your problem. This is a problem you can fix yourself. If you can't you aren't much of an RP'er. *shrug*
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Best suggestion for you...|
Originally Posted by NewScrapper
Eh, my RP'ing takes place in my head, since I'm a 95% soloer, which is why having dialogue put in my character's mouth is frustrating. It feels like I'm playing someone else's character (albeit with my power choices and costume design). I'm just lucky the character concepts I picked sort of blend well with the GR dialogue options, or I probably would have rerolled something else that fit better.
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Get over it.
You're RPing takes place in your head, then hand wave it, and think to yourself what the character would do.
No different than the mutant with techie mutant abilities doesn't get the "disable the bomb" choice, that the Tech origin gets.
They're just added little fun.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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That game makes us DO things all the time. Explaining why you did something is much easier than explaining why you said something. Actions are a pragmatic decision, which can be explained with pragmatic reasons, convoluted though they may be. Words are expressions of a specific personality that don't really have a direct explanation. What's more, it's not always clear by your words what action you're actually choosing and sometimes the action you want lies at the end of words that you don't.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Yes, but what would you replace the words with? Descriptions of actions? That would be making your character DO things they wouldn't do, and we'd be back to square one.
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And at the end of the day, if your character wouldn't pick a certain action, the solution is simple - don't pick that action when the choice is presented to you. It's much easier to blind-guess at a small selection of items that would make sense for nearly everyone than it is to blind-guess at a small selection of speech personalities, so your chances of finding the option to take an action your character WOULD take is much higher than your chance to find a line your character would say.
Putting words in our mouths is never a good idea. Giving us a choice of description reactions is far superior, even if the result is always the same.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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lol!
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Originally Posted by mts
this is why i think that every dialog tree where there are one or more options of your character saying something, should always have the last option be simply "..."
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Or unfun, depending on whether you actually like them or not.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
They're just added little fun.
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Yeah, handwave it away. In my head, I RP away most of the game's factions, politics, and history. I have my own superhero world that overlays this one - even the warwalls don't exist in mine.
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Do you have any idea how much I'd love that?!? And I'm not saying this just because I have a mute character, I honestly feel that saying nothing should be a legitimate option much more often than it is.|
Originally Posted by MTS
This is why I think that every dialog tree where there are one or more options of your character saying something, should always have the last option be simply "..."
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Let me give you a bit of context: I'm a chatty person in real life. I talk a lot. Too much, as a point of fact. Knowing when NOT to say anything is a skill I've had to work at learning, so I can appreciate every time that a fictional character saying NOTHING is not just a legitimate, but also a beneficial course of action. There's so much yapping in the in-game texts already that having "don't talk" be an option will be a nice change of pace.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I appreciate how new "conversational" style of dialogue with NPCs (introduced with the Going Rogue expansion) allows the devs to pack reams and reams of exposition into the new story arcs (which, to me, tends to bog things down severely, but whatever), I feel like the devs have lost site of the fact that "MMORPG" contains the letters "RP" for a reason. City of Heroes is supposed to be about role-playing, and it's really hard to roleplay when the new "conversational" style of dialogue keeps putting words in my characters' mouths that they, according to the character concepts I designed for them, would never say. Even when I'm given choices of what my character can reply, sometimes none of the choices fit -- if I were to have a character from Asgard who talks in "thees" and "thous", for example, I'd be totally out of luck finding dialogue that sounds like my character, and this degrades the roleplaying function of the game. Personally, what I would like to see is a "genericizing" of the dialogue options, such that instead of things like, <"I'll never join you! Prepare to eat my fist!"> we instead get <Refuse enemy's offer and attack him.> That would allow me to think of what my character would say and more effectively roleplay the experience, instead of feeling like I was just clicking through a rote script to get to the action.