I'm going to wager, probably not very good.
Its a great set, does good single and aoe damage. I'd say a strong middle packer. It makes funny noises though.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
If Claws and Energy Melee got it on and made kids, Kinetic Melee would be their off-spring. It's a very well rounded set. Give it a run at the very least to see if you like it.
When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.
It's a good set. It is kinda ridiculous with Fiery Aura, since you get to mix strong +dam with Fiery Embrace. The animations are on the long side, but the DPA is still good. It's probably not top of the heap, but it's pretty good.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'd say the set is pretty good, and for scrappers better than average at leveling due to the damage buff of power siphon, which can average fairly high even at lower levels. Its AoE damage is not as good as the strong AoE sets out there, but its single target damage is decent and its a very good general purpose primary in my opinion.
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Quote:
It is good with Fiery Aura, but more due to Burn and Blazing Aura than Fiery Embrace. Fiery Embrace is equally amazing on everything.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's a good set. It is kinda ridiculous with Fiery Aura, since you get to mix strong +dam with Fiery Embrace. The animations are on the long side, but the DPA is still good. It's probably not top of the heap, but it's pretty good.
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The problem with KM/FA Scrappers is that uhm... SS/FA Brutes are better. SS is a smashing type melee set with superior attacks and a better damage buff mechanism(Important with FA), and Fiery Aura works better with Brutes mainly due to the aggro mechanics. Then again SS/FA Brutes are pretty much better than everything so that doesn't really say much.
On a more personal level, KM feels slow to me. Slow to get the damage buffs going, slow to get CS hitting... It's just not my cup of tea.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Power Siphon synergizes better with Fiery Embrace on Scrappers than things like Rage does due to its mechanics. Specifically, PS tends to average around 60% total buff, but that's averaged from a high of ~150% to a low of zero when its down; if you sync PS with FE you'll concentrate a huge buff on FE's extra damage while its there, which improves the performance of PS over things like Rage, which have a higher average buff in general.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
It is good with Fiery Aura, but more due to Burn and Blazing Aura than Fiery Embrace. Fiery Embrace is equally amazing on everything.
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As to SS/FA, I find SS/FA brutes to be a bit one-dimensional. They can be fantastic (PB)AoE powerhouses, but outside of burn farming they aren't all that great. YMMV.
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Quote:
Not really. I mean, yes, it's amazing on everything, but it's particularly amazing with anything that provides +damage on top of Scrapper damage scales, because that +damage buffs the bonus damage from FE. (On a Brute, much of how a Brute reaches Scrapper damage levels is due to +damage, so the +damage of PS doesn't benefit the Brute as significantly as it does the Scrapper. Basically, what Arcanaville said.)|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
It is good with Fiery Aura, but more due to Burn and Blazing Aura than Fiery Embrace. Fiery Embrace is equally amazing on everything.
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The grossest thing I could imagine would be if somehow you could have both Against All Odds and Fiery Embrace. Well, and some proper attacks too, since a Shield/FA Scrapper wouldn't be very offensive. (But more offensive than most things you could get by combining two mitigation sets.) Barring the impossibility/impracticality of that, the closest we can get is something like KM/FA or DM/FA. KM/* can get to its peak +damage with just one target, while a DM/FA is more inherently survivable.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Ah, but if you do that you're sacrificing overall performance. Instead of having damage all the time, you'll have a roller-coaster ride of performance. Also, PS and FE have different recharge times so getting it right without wasting PS would be a hard feat.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Power Siphon synergizes better with Fiery Embrace on Scrappers than things like Rage does due to its mechanics. Specifically, PS tends to average around 60% total buff, but that's averaged from a high of ~150% to a low of zero when its down; if you sync PS with FE you'll concentrate a huge buff on FE's extra damage while its there, which improves the performance of PS over things like Rage, which have a higher average buff in general.
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| As to SS/FA, I find SS/FA brutes to be a bit one-dimensional. They can be fantastic (PB)AoE powerhouses, but outside of burn farming they aren't all that great. YMMV. |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Not really. I mean, yes, it's amazing on everything, but it's particularly amazing with anything that provides +damage on top of Scrapper damage scales, because that +damage buffs the bonus damage from FE. (On a Brute, much of how a Brute reaches Scrapper damage levels is due to +damage, so the +damage of PS doesn't benefit the Brute as significantly as it does the Scrapper. Basically, what Arcanaville said.)
The grossest thing I could imagine would be if somehow you could have both Against All Odds and Fiery Embrace. Well, and some proper attacks too, since a Shield/FA Scrapper wouldn't be very offensive. (But more offensive than most things you could get by combining two mitigation sets.) Barring the impossibility/impracticality of that, the closest we can get is something like KM/FA or DM/FA. KM/* can get to its peak +damage with just one target, while a DM/FA is more inherently survivable. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Yes, but +damage benefits a Scrapper more than a Brute, because of the "dilution" of benefit due to a Brute's Scrapper-comparable damage coming from a combination of low base damage and high +damage.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
The +damage buffs the bonus damage from FE, but so does your base damage. Your overall damage directly translates to how good FE is, not how much damage buffs you have or what your base damage is.
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It's the same reason that people point out that Shield Defense is better on a Scrapper, except you can't combine SD with FA. If you can get more overall damage out of KM on a Scrapper, then you get to multiply that by the bonus, scaling damage of Fiery Embrace. Ergo, the best total damage benefit, on paper, looks like it goes to the Scrapper.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Ugliest set I have seen, by far. Haven't been able to make it past lvl 8.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
Choose KM if...
you want to play a Scrapper or Stalker...
you're deaf or play without sound...
you like the animations...
you can either throw enough recharge into the set that you can fire off CS often or don't care about such things...
you love +Dmg buffs and -Dmg debuffs...
you hate redraw, and...
you'd rather fight an AV than a horde of minions.
Quote:
That doesn't seem to be the case in practice; specifically getting PS to buff FE on a regular basis by enough to generate a large overall benefit.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Ah, but if you do that you're sacrificing overall performance. Instead of having damage all the time, you'll have a roller-coaster ride of performance. Also, PS and FE have different recharge times so getting it right without wasting PS would be a hard feat.
|
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Quote:
Rage crash?|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Ah, but if you do that you're sacrificing overall performance. Instead of having damage all the time, you'll have a roller-coaster ride of performance.
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Oh, and I have three scrappers that can easily solo the ITF, I suspect most people's scrappers could if they gave it a moment's thought.
Quote:
That's a synergy issue with SS and FE, it doesn't mean FE is particularly good with KM.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Rage crash?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That doesn't seem to be the case in practice; specifically getting PS to buff FE on a regular basis by enough to generate a large overall benefit.
|
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I find KM to be a fine set for what it is. the key to the set is Power Siphon, a boost that increases you up to five times, and it gives more range then any other set except Spines. It is AOE heavy, Range Heavy, the tradeoff is exceptionally long, some might say slightly silly animations.
I have a KM/Fire/Fire brute, and he works wonders... I do think that a Scrapper with they're ability to Critical would be an awesome choice with this set.
"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...
Quote:
Within the practice of those who, you know, do it? But I'll be fair and break it down from personal experiences. Power Siphon is capable of being pushed down to (at least) a 30/s timer, which results in 20/s up time, and 10/s of "downtime" (which is really the declension of your power from the 156%); and if I account for a duration like that, you get more of a 78-80% +Dam compared to a more normal average of 60% like Arcanaville notated earlier from longer average (non-heavy IO'd) builds. We're getting a pretty significant up-time out of Power Siphon in that case, and with the Critical piece of Concentrated Strike, it is even more likely that PS is going to be around more often, quite possibly even to say up 100% of the time from that point forward with only momentary breaks for things like Hasten and Fiery Embrace to be activated.|
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If I recall the numbers off-hand correctly, KM/FA has the potential of seeing something like 1,500-1,900 point attacks on it's own. Somewhere between 900-1,100 point Concentrated Strikes with an additional 600-800 points off of FE (sorry, I'm not up for doing the hard math right now, you'll have to accept the rough recollections). SS/FA Brutes might be able to leverage Rage in their builds pretty heavily giving powerful interactions with Fiery Embrace, but Rage is only providing an 80% boost--160% double stacked--so, comparable to 156% at PS's top range, which is possible to maintain. If you account the fact that Scrappers have a higher damage scale, they do better resulting damage. In order for the Brute to compare, they have to include Fury, but Scrappers still get (some) criticals out of everything else they use (obviously excluding CS). If I take away */*/Soul, in particular Gloom, from Brutes, I'd find it hard to accept that SS/FA would be so nearly loved. Gloom is often the contributing reason to why Brutes ever get DPS higher than Scrappers.
When Scrappers get Super Strength, there will be no Brute Love*
*I mean this with the utmost of sincere joking, try as I might, there will still be pesky Brutes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Favorite melee set for me. I'm not min/maxer so I can just say that for what I use it for on a Stalker and Scrapper (KM/Nin - KM/Elec respectfully), I love the set. Until StJ comes out and even after, KM remains to be one of my attack sets.
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Assuming Power Siphon has a 30 second recharge timer, and Fiery Embrace has a 45 second recharge timer, how would you manage to keep Fiery Embrace up during the time Power Siphon is up, without losing out on the potential up-time of either?|
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
Within the practice of those who, you know, do it? But I'll be fair and break it down from personal experiences. Power Siphon is capable of being pushed down to (at least) a 30/s timer, which results in 20/s up time, and 10/s of "downtime" (which is really the declension of your power from the 156%); and if I account for a duration like that, you get more of a 78-80% +Dam compared to a more normal average of 60% like Arcanaville notated earlier from longer average (non-heavy IO'd) builds. We're getting a pretty significant up-time out of Power Siphon in that case, and with the Critical piece of Concentrated Strike, it is even more likely that PS is going to be around more often, quite possibly even to say up 100% of the time from that point forward with only momentary breaks for things like Hasten and Fiery Embrace to be activated.
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And if you can't overlap them both at the same time on a regular basis without losing out on potential up-time, is it worth waiting for one or the other to recharge?
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I started a KM/Elec scrapper, but he is only level 16 or so. I don't mind the animation, nor the sound that some people find annoying. I have to decide if I want to continue with this toon, or try energy armor coming out this week; I think both combos could be good.
Quote:
I'm sorry, I'm not following...|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Assuming Power Siphon has a 30 second recharge timer, and Fiery Embrace has a 45 second recharge timer, how would you manage to keep Fiery Embrace up during the time Power Siphon is up, without losing out on the potential up-time of either?
And if you can't overlap them both at the same time on a regular basis without losing out on potential up-time, is it worth waiting for one or the other to recharge? |
It sounds like you're asking: Power Siphon, trigger five seconds worth of ramp-attack, trigger fiery embrace, laugh in mad glee at 20/s of awesomeness?
There isn't a question of "When do I overlap," "When do I wait for recharge timers." In theory--and in most practice--the Critical of Concentrated Strike will keep you fighting with a constant 156% +Dam so that takes PS out of the equation. Thus, you trigger Fiery Embrace as often as you can, and there is no question of loosing the potential of anything. You don't want to burn FE during any potential down-time you might incur with PS, as the damage is significantly different; but there are some extenuating circumstances I could foresee: Say you Trigger PS, die shortly after before getting to FE, come back from the Hospital and PS is still down because, say, Hasten is now down, what do you do? Hit Fiery Embrace and try and jump the damage wagon as quickly as possible until PS and Hasten cycle back around and you can keep going.
For the record, I can say that there are circumstances where Concentrated Strike will absolutely screw you on Critical chances, but you really just have to roll with the punches in those situations. If you focus on hitting Fiery Embrace as often as its up, you should be spending most, if not all, of your time within the confines of 120%+.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Quote:
Ok, so you have 20 seconds of FE+5xPS, and then you activate Power Siphon right as it recharges. Guess what, you have 10 seconds of awesomeness next time instead of 20, unless you get a CS crit. |
Originally Posted by John_Printemps
I'm sorry, I'm not following...
It sounds like you're asking: Power Siphon, trigger five seconds worth of ramp-attack, trigger fiery embrace, laugh in mad glee at 20/s of awesomeness? |
I'm not denying that FE is better when buffed by PS. The point I'm trying to make is that even if PS was perma, it wouldn't help make FE any better due to some special synergy, it would be better simply because you do more damage than others before FE comes into the equation.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I try to use them both as often as possible, but two factors conspire to make the overlap period better than you would think a 2:3 recharge ratio would make it:|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Assuming Power Siphon has a 30 second recharge timer, and Fiery Embrace has a 45 second recharge timer, how would you manage to keep Fiery Embrace up during the time Power Siphon is up, without losing out on the potential up-time of either?
And if you can't overlap them both at the same time on a regular basis without losing out on potential up-time, is it worth waiting for one or the other to recharge? |
1. Synchronizing in between spawns. You never trigger either while moving in between spawns, so you generally gain a few seconds here and there.
2. Concentrated Strike breaks up the 2:3 ratio by periodically insta-recharging Power Siphon.
The net result is you get a lot more overlap than it might appear, and when you do overlap you are overlapping at levels of up to +156% damage buff.
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Quote:
Depends on your definition of "special synergy." What I said was:|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Ok, so you have 20 seconds of FE+5xPS, and then you activate Power Siphon right as it recharges. Guess what, you have 10 seconds of awesomeness next time instead of 20, unless you get a CS crit.
I'm not denying that FE is better when buffed by PS. The point I'm trying to make is that even if PS was perma, it wouldn't help make FE any better due to some special synergy, it would be better simply because you do more damage than others before FE comes into the equation. |
Quote:
| Power Siphon synergizes better with Fiery Embrace on Scrappers than things like Rage does due to its mechanics. Specifically, PS tends to average around 60% total buff, but that's averaged from a high of ~150% to a low of zero when its down; if you sync PS with FE you'll concentrate a huge buff on FE's extra damage while its there, which improves the performance of PS over things like Rage, which have a higher average buff in general. |
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I've done a few searches on Kinetic Melee and I only seem to find builds. I'm a returning player that hasn't playing almost 3 years so I'm messing around with the sets that weren't around when I was playing.
With builds aside, what is the overall view of KM? What is it good at? What is it bad at? Which attacks are great, which are awful?
I'm just looking for information that tells me what Kinetic Melee's niche is. How does it perform leveling up and at max level? General information such as that.
Thanks.