First Impressions/Suggestions from Open VIP Beta
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-08-10 03:19 in Suggestions and Ideas
lol - So dreary - why do you even play the game. 
I joke of course, since this is a review, but still - lol
-mouse
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The shared mission in the tutorial is no different than what we've had for years as zone events and fighting GM's, however sending players to the same location in a zone to fight regular street mob NPC's is a stupid idea. I saw the same damn thing happening that I hate about playing Champions. A whole bunch of players standing around in one spot waiting for the NPC's to respawn. This is a frakkin clusterbleep and can easily be griefed by higher level characters who will be able to wipe out the lower level players objectives before they can complete their missions.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
3. Shared mission areas - there was one mission where you go into a Hellion cave and fight your way to a glowie. Shared mission areas are an incredibly bad idea. You always have competition for mobs and/or objectives, from what I've seen in other games, and you have the potential for griefing.
Keep the instanced paradigm please. |
The old method was far superior.
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6. LAG - the lag on the beta server was worse than any iTrial I've been on. Optimization needs to be top priority, or the influx of F2P players will kill the game. 7. Mob AI - it might have beeen the lag, but mob AI seemed... off. If I stand in the middle of a group of mobs, they should all attack. The only reaction I received from mobs were the ones I attacked. |
I'm surprised it wasn't a lot worse. They really did a great job upgrading the servers to handle the higher population.
<QR>
I think that the new tutorial feels WAY too much like the tutorial of a certain other super hero MMO for my liking. Just sayin'.
Also noticed some more griefing in those open missions where a player you aren't teamed with will aggro a bunch of NPC's and lead them over to someone to get them killed.
Question:
Why are you not posting this in the VIP Beta Feedback, where the devs will actually be LOOKING for said feedback, instead of S&I? I mean, that IS kind of the point of that section. Or at the very least sending the info in as a /bug (option: Suggestion/Feedback) ?
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agreed
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Question:
Why are you not posting this in the VIP Beta Feedback, where the devs will actually be LOOKING for said feedback, instead of S&I? I mean, that IS kind of the point of that section. Or at the very least sending the info in as a /bug (option: Suggestion/Feedback) ? |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
The VIP Beta Feedback doesn't appear on the forums if you have your settings bookmarked to City of Heroes Forums > English. So the OP probably didn't know he had access to them.
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Oh, ugh, the moribund Star Wars MMO was set up like that too, when I dipped in a toe some years back. Yeah, hell to the power of no, do not want that here.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The shared mission in the tutorial is no different than what we've had for years as zone events and fighting GM's, however sending players to the same location in a zone to fight regular street mob NPC's is a stupid idea. I saw the same damn thing happening that I hate about playing Champions. A whole bunch of players standing around in one spot waiting for the NPC's to respawn. This is a frakkin clusterbleep and can easily be griefed by higher level characters who will be able to wipe out the lower level players objectives before they can complete their missions.
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I havent received any emails detailing where said forums are located, and I did look for them before posting here.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Question:
Why are you not posting this in the VIP Beta Feedback, where the devs will actually be LOOKING for said feedback, instead of S&I? I mean, that IS kind of the point of that section. Or at the very least sending the info in as a /bug (option: Suggestion/Feedback) ? |
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| The VIP Beta Feedback doesn't appear on the forums if you have your settings bookmarked to City of Heroes Forums > English. So the OP probably didn't know he had access to them. |
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How are higher level characters supposed to get into the tutorial?| The shared mission in the tutorial is no different than what we've had for years as zone events and fighting GM's, however sending players to the same location in a zone to fight regular street mob NPC's is a stupid idea. I saw the same damn thing happening that I hate about playing Champions. A whole bunch of players standing around in one spot waiting for the NPC's to respawn. This is a frakkin clusterbleep and can easily be griefed by higher level characters who will be able to wipe out the lower level players objectives before they can complete their missions. |
Not to mention that in the "zone event" section of the tutorial the conditions aren't personal. Anyone makes a kill, everyone gets credit.
Besides, it's not like the tutorial is always going to be jam packed with people after the first month or so.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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It's not a problem with the new tutorial, LL... It's the starting mission series in Atlas. Run through them on Beta and you'll see what the OP means, I suspect. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
How are higher level characters supposed to get into the tutorial?
Not to mention that in the "zone event" section of the tutorial the conditions aren't personal. Anyone makes a kill, everyone gets credit. Besides, it's not like the tutorial is always going to be jam packed with people after the first month or so. |
The contacts send you on open-world hunt-style missions in a specific area, which you often end up sharing with other players, rather than into instanced maps. I saw some mob-leading myself running through them yesterday afternoon, and have no trouble imagining how easy it would be for a higher level player to wipe out the mob spawns compltely to grief the lowbies.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
One person's pleasure is another's pain, or in this case swap that!
AP is going to be the starting zone for more than just VIPs and Premium players returning to see what the fuss is all about.
There are new players coming, whether people like it or not, and at the moment the starter missions in Atlas and Mercy don't actually tell you about the game. Or rather they present walls of text.
AP needs to be shiny and it now has a story beyond lolPhantom_Armyspawn under the statue.
Yes Galaxy is gone. Yes it's a shame (I didn't see where they hid Shadowstar or relocated Sunstorm to) but things change.
The old buildings looked good maybe 7 years ago. The new upgrades now make the place look like a City of modern times as opposed to a City out of the 1960s (i.e. concrete everywhere, and not a green belt in sight).
And as for the spawns? They're fast now because there aren't 50 players trying to do the same thing. And it's Beta so things can change. And the new instances OUTSIDE that even have cued music are awesome!
I am looking at Atlas Park with hope that further 'redesigns' of drab zones like Kings and Skyway (and maybe eventually Boomtown) will occur. Especially if new players start spending money because they like what they see, they like how it plays, and they like the fact that people are supportive in game.
And so what that the tutorial now feels like other MMOs? Maybe our empty, desolate tutorial zones needed a feeling that more than 2 people were playing the game, especially for new people. Maybe the tutorial (which now extends beyond the Shivans and Galaxy into Atlas/Mercy) is better because it explains things in a simple yet fast way?
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Fail.|
Originally Posted by Bright
The contacts send you on open-world hunt-style missions in a specific area, which you often end up sharing with other players, rather than into instanced maps.
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Man, I mean, what. This lesson has been learned. Street hunting was the least popular in-game activity anyway, and that was when you had whole quarter-zone areas to do it in, and non-instancing specific mission goals is a mistake that's been plain to see in many another MMO. Going to it now is like some industrial chemist suddenly saying, "GUYS GUYS GUYS you know what would make spark knocking a lot less common? If we put lead in gasoline."
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Only the first part of the sentence you quoted was about the tutorial.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
How are higher level characters supposed to get into the tutorial?
Not to mention that in the "zone event" section of the tutorial the conditions aren't personal. Anyone makes a kill, everyone gets credit. Besides, it's not like the tutorial is always going to be jam packed with people after the first month or so. |
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| The shared mission in the tutorial is no different than what we've had for years as zone events and fighting GM's |
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| however sending players to the same location in a zone to fight regular street mob NPC's is a stupid idea. |
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| 3. Shared mission areas - there was one mission where you go into a Hellion cave and fight your way to a glowie. Shared mission areas are an incredibly bad idea. You always have competition for mobs and/or objectives, from what I've seen in other games, and you have the potential for griefing. |
I'm sorry you found my response to the OP so confusing.
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I've done them on Mercy and it's fundamentally the same thing. I ran into no issues even when things were very crowded. While they lead you to a specific area, the area where there are foes that count is usually quite large with really fast respawn and low perception radius.|
Originally Posted by Bright
It's not a problem with the new tutorial, LL... It's the starting mission series in Atlas. Run through them on Beta and you'll see what the OP means, I suspect.
The contacts send you on open-world hunt-style missions in a specific area, which you often end up sharing with other players, rather than into instanced maps. I saw some mob-leading myself running through them yesterday afternoon, and have no trouble imagining how easy it would be for a higher level player to wipe out the mob spawns compltely to grief the lowbies. |
I don't deny it's possible, but I'd bet money it's hard to keep people from completing their missions for any length of time. At the very least it won't take people any longer than it does hunting over a wide area for uncommon mobs now.
If it does turn out to "need" a solution then all the devs need to do is make use of the phasing technology so that people beyond a certain level can't even see the mobs.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I've tested the first Hellions mission and found that any Hellion in AP counts. New players won't know that kills away from the designated mission site also count. So at the very least tell players in the mission text when the kills count anywhere in the zone. The tiny fraction of players that like to be jerks can't cover an entire zone.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I've done them on Mercy and it's fundamentally the same thing. I ran into no issues even when things were very crowded. While they lead you to a specific area, the area where there are foes that count is usually quite large with really fast respawn and low perception radius.
I don't deny it's possible, but I'd bet money it's hard to keep people from completing their missions for any length of time. At the very least it won't take people any longer than it does hunting over a wide area for uncommon mobs now. If it does turn out to "need" a solution then all the devs need to do is make use of the phasing technology so that people beyond a certain level can't even see the mobs. |
Keep in mind that even just tagging an enemy counts. There is no kill-stealing in City. If you do some damage to a dude, you get credit for it; just because you didn't land the killing blow doesn't mean you didn't get credit.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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This. The griefers will come, they will try, and they will get bored. Kill-Stealing doesn't function well enough for them to get enough jollies here.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Keep in mind that even just tagging an enemy counts. There is no kill-stealing in City. If you do some damage to a dude, you get credit for it; just because you didn't land the killing blow doesn't mean you didn't get credit.
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I see it as a good move on the Dev's part as one of the biggest complaints from new players is the sparse feel of the zones, when they complain the immediate reaction from us is to inform them about how heavily instanced this game is. That knowledge doesn't erase the 'Feeling' of being alone in the zone to new players though.
This strategy gets more and more of us out of secluded instances and back into the streets to be visible at low levels.
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Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Bah. I didn't sign up to be put on display so the new kids won't feel alone.
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
This strategy gets more and more of us out of secluded instances and back into the streets to be visible at low levels.
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I'm generally of the opinion that new players aren't any stupider than existing players, the only variable being time. Most of them will be able to figure it out. Especially since it's actually the exact opposite of the old "Kill X in Y neighborhood" problem, which was overly specifc, and "new players" ran into issues figuring out why their kills didn't count.| New players won't know that kills away from the designated mission site also count. |
Basically people will go after the first ones they see. If they have to run a little bit before they find some, that's no big deal, AP is a pretty small zone. In essence, people's default mode of play will lead to mission success, as opposed to having to actively sort something out. If a high level griefer is spamming AoEs, all the new player does is have to run around a couple corners and there will be more targets.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Not talking about tagging or kill-stealing, I'm talking about players having to stand around in one spot waiting for things to respawn because they don't know they can go elsewhere to complete the mission, and players that aggro npc's in open missions and lead them on top of other players to get them killed. Both of which I've seen happen in the open beta.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Keep in mind that even just tagging an enemy counts. There is no kill-stealing in City. If you do some damage to a dude, you get credit for it; just because you didn't land the killing blow doesn't mean you didn't get credit.
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I would like to see a feature in the near future that lets us create vouchers for incarnate salvage. I have a character with three very rares he has no use for that could be used on another.... Does anyone know if this has been brought up before?
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Then it looks like I'll be making a lot more Praetorians if I want to continue to enjoy instanced missions. This open world crap is why I haven't made a new character in that other super hero MMO in almost 2 years.
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
This. The griefers will come, they will try, and they will get bored. Kill-Stealing doesn't function well enough for them to get enough jollies here.
I see it as a good move on the Dev's part as one of the biggest complaints from new players is the sparse feel of the zones, when they complain the immediate reaction from us is to inform them about how heavily instanced this game is. That knowledge doesn't erase the 'Feeling' of being alone in the zone to new players though. This strategy gets more and more of us out of secluded instances and back into the streets to be visible at low levels. |
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What bugs me about open world isn't "Griefers" - yeah, I've run into a few (hey, PVP heavy game like Aion, it's almost expected) but the other MMOs "Go kill x of these and bring me 5 bat nose hairs" ... and they're in a limited area, and *everyone* is going for them. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it looks like I'll be making a lot more Praetorians if I want to continue to enjoy instanced missions. This open world crap is why I haven't made a new character in that other super hero MMO in almost 2 years.
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Fortunately, so far the numbers needed are small (defeat 5 Hellions) and they've been respawning *really* fast. (Almost too fast, honestly.)
I don't think it'll be a problem.
1. Tutorial - interesting new Shivan mobs and storyline. Can't say I care for the destruction of my favorite starter zone. As a "tutorial", I dont think it's representative of the rest of the game. You get a series of chained objectives instead of actual missions, which isnt typical. Your xp bar never moves until halfway through the "mission" when you level.
The pace of the chained objectives seems a bit hurried, slow it down a bit.
The user should not see the "big shivan" from the prior group. I had to kill it twice.
2. New directional reticle - I don't care for it. It looks more stylish, but it's more obtrusive. Go back to the old targeting arrow, it's nice and simple and didnt need fixing.
3. Shared mission areas - there was one mission where you go into a Hellion cave and fight your way to a glowie. Shared mission areas are an incredibly bad idea. You always have competition for mobs and/or objectives, from what I've seen in other games, and you have the potential for griefing.
Keep the instanced paradigm please.
4. AP redesign. Looks nice, but I'd like the old buildings back please. Increase the resolution, definitely, but to change the entire layout of the zone? The new city hall, meh.
5. Emailed certifications - currently in the game, and I think it's a bad idea overall. Auto-certify please as you login characters. The only things I think that should be email certified are single instance items that you purchase, that can only be used by one character.
6. LAG - the lag on the beta server was worse than any iTrial I've been on. Optimization needs to be top priority, or the influx of F2P players will kill the game.
7. Mob AI - it might have beeen the lag, but mob AI seemed... off. If I stand in the middle of a group of mobs, they should all attack. The only reaction I received from mobs were the ones I attacked.
8. New character generation screens - very slick and stylish. It will take a while to get used to, but a fairly nice improvement.
9. Screen resolution - the Beta client starts out in the lowest resolution possible, which makes things awkward and somewhat distorted. Provide some mechanism on first startup to allow the user to pick their resolution. Going through the character creation on low resolution just didnt impress me.
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