Ill/Rad....ok, what am i missing?

So I see Ill/Rad mentioned all the time when powerful controllers are mentioned. Having read about them I finally made, and leveled one to 50. Once at 50 I invested in sets and hit the TFs for some fun. Well, I was less than blown away to be honest.

First off, Ill:

PA was a very handy power while lvling, but at lvl 50, I found it caused problems as they would often attack other groups drawing aggro to the the team. I found myself only calling on them when there was an AV to fight.

Phantom is another nice leveling power, but at 50, I had more people asking me to dismiss him then wanted him around. Tanks especially didn't like him because of the knockback, so again, he only comes out to play when there is an AV.

Spooky can come in handy at times. the fear is pretyt powerful, but again, a far more handy leveling power than a lvl 50 power.

Blind, Spectral Wounds and Deceive are all decent powers, but nothing to write home about and Flash, while good, has too large of a recharge to be useful.


Now for Rad

Rad has an OK heal, and AM is definitely a fantastic buff, but Rad is really known for its debuffs. All but 1 of the debuffs need anchors, and there lies the problem. When playing on a lvl 50 team, by the time an anchor is made, the spawn is dead and everyone is moving on. Its pointless to even debuff a group unless you're using Lingering Rad, which is the only AOE debuff. Again, just like with Ill, most of the powers are pointless to use unless its an AV or maybe an EB.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying that this set is weak. It isn't by any means. And I'll be more than willing to admit I'm wrong, perhaps I'm just playing the set wrong. All I know is that this AT was a blast to level up (which is why I don't feel it was a waste to level up at all, I love the journey too) but once I got to 50, the bottom fell out.

So again I ask. What am I missing?

Ya I dunno. PA is on a pretty tight leash, they shouldn't be running off into other spawns. Click where you want them to spawn and then you usually have to invis drag them to the next group. Unless the spawns are really close together, but if PA is aggroing on them then they were going to be on you shortly anyway, so may as well be attacking an indestructible pet.

Spooky is great all the time I find. Granted you may not always see a tangible difference in gameplay, the fear and tohit debuff do significantly soften the output of most enemies.

Phantasm...ya the melee bug makes him splat pretty often. But you are probably running with a kb nazi if someone is whining about it his kb.

Flash is a pretty standard controller aoe hold. They all recharge in 240 sec. At the very least it is easy to get off for illusion as you don't tend to have a lot of aggro on your character compared to say a fire troller.

I mostly agree with your comments about rad. I've run it to 50 on both a corr and a def and largely feel it is overrated as an endgame set. It is awesome while leveling though, matures early and has tremendous impact on fights. At 50 though it is kinda slow and the anchor aoe's aren't that large. I feel cold is a vastly superior endgame set.

that said, the issues with rad in late game aren't really rad's fault, but rather that teams get so powerful and just munch content so quickly. It is awesome in earlier levels where fights last a bit longer and enemies live long enough to bunch up. Late game I just throw EF on a boss and/or LR on the spawn and then blast. Using RI is often a waste of time like you mention.

I've been hearing a lot of good things about cold and have been thinking about giving that a shot. Not sure yet what I'll pair with it yet but that will come with time.

I just want to clarify that LR isn't the only AoE debuff. RI and EF are as well. In the level 50 game a number of powers and sets get downplayed. They lean towards support sets and really towards MMs. All the more so on speed teams, but then that's kind of the point. You do what is minimally needed and then move on. Rad is one of the bigger losers in the end game stuff, but I have no real issue with Ill outside of it being virtually ignored in the prisoner escapee phase in BAF. I have yet had anybody complain about Phant. If PA aggros an extra mob, then it has a strong enough taunt aura to lock things onto it and I have controls to handle "oh crap moments" via Flash and EM Pulse.

The thing about Rad's debuffs, as I understand them, is that they kill on tough single-target fights. Usually when I hear about the unmitigated curb-stomping slaughter of Ill/Rad, it's in reference to their exceptional ability to solo AVs through a combination of massive debuffs, and the unusually (For a control set) high damage of Illusion.

Look at it this way, if your team is chewing through enemies so fast then why the need for the debuffs anyway? Anchored or otherwise. At this point you may need to turn the difficulty up or find tougher enemies. It's common practice to want to put the anchor on a boss in a mob, and then you find the team focuses on that mob. People tend to want to take out the biggest threat first; it's understandable. What I try to do is find a lieut. in the back of the pack and cast on them to give your debuffs a little more time if possible. But if my teammates kill them, oh well, that's the point anyway. Post 50 you will find that your debuffs are usually best served on tough enemies like AVs and GMs which is great as you'll be dealing with a lot of them in the late and end game.

Ill/Rad is a controller ideal for killing strong enemies, tanking enemy mobs, and mild control.

It's sort of like a tanker, a blaster, and a controller all mixed together, and it helps to play to those strengths.

And what do tanks, blasters, and controllers all have in common? Positioning.

That's where the invis comes in.

When you have a tanker, just hop into the mob long enough to get PA on their tails, and then back away to a place where they won't be able to aggro anything on their return trip to you. Phantasm follows you more closely, so let it be your personal tanker and knock enemies away from your position. Throw LR and EF on, toss in some holds and confuses with focus on frustrating enemies, and wittle down minions and Lieutenants while watching your team in case a heal is needed. You can also hop in and use your invisibility as a cover to fire off Flash and EMPulse for some nice lockdown, but be sure to have PA up and actively taking aggro when you do so.

Hover and Ill/Rad are friends. You can float right above a mob out of melee range, and your pets will just look around for something to hit for a couple of seconds and then give up and wait for your lead. Frankly, mine almost never touches his feet to the ground.

If you're looking for an omega controller with mighty damage that can help muscle through the late game, then Plant/Storm or Fire/Kin more be more up your alley. An Ill/Rad troller is sort of its own unique entity, cousin to the more team-friendly Ill/Cold.

I understand that the anchor debuffs are AOEs also, Its just that LR is the only one that doesn't require an anchor, just a target for the debuff to hit. And Local, your guide is a big reason I tried an Ill/Rad. As I said, I don't think its weak by any means, I've just found it underwhelming Post 50 set. But again, it could be me.

If you are investing in sets, make sure you get PA to perma.

If you are not casting PA after they reset in the middle of group you want to attack, you are using them to their full advantage.

Coming from an endgame focused Corr, I use EF constantly.

There are a ton of hard to kill mobs on trials, mobs that do not fall over at the slightest breeze.

I like Warwalkers (who take a while to die due to sheer HP/resistances) or some of the randomly floating around Commanders who are bosses, but they are generally lesser priority targets and often stick around to the end.

For a controller LR is your boss fight magic. My corr uses it on regular groups to keep them from running willy nilly for Rain of Fire.


RI is there when you need it, but you don't need it all of the time. Its great when you do need it.

All three are basically amazing on BAF, where waves of ambushes rush to their AVs who are functioning as anchors for both toggles and can be perpetually debuffed with LR. All the while you still just get to stand there and shoot the hell out of stuff.

And then...you have a lot of free time to shoot stuff, a super useful and easy to maintain buff (AM) and a way to keep your HP topped off (RA).

Sometimes you get to blow up your friends.


So if you notice the theme here, I like /Rad because it gives me more time to shoot stuff. As a Controller, I guess YMMV.

Hee. After completing my Ill/Rad build (Nearly identical to Local Man's, with I think maybe one slot placed differently because I don't trust build up Procs on ST attacks) I didn't play another character for WEEKS. I solo'd every EB and AV I could get my hands on, ran piles of TFs, and got all of his Incarnate slots to T3 (two of which are now T4). Walked away from the wreckage with nearly 1200 merits by the time I could put the character down, and it was honestly not even close to helping my recoup my financials after buying everything I needed for that beautiful, horribly expensive build.

On the way to 50? It was pretty-much the same, only slower. The recharge is what makes the character.

My Ill/Rad is a great team player for debuffs and is a BEAST at killing AV's...an absolute BEAST!. Perma PA has its benefits.

I am not sure about this, but I read somewhere in the beta forums that anchor debuffs are going to remain affecting the foes even after the anchor dies in i21. If that is true, it's a great thing for rad overall. I do intend on making a Ill, I am just unsure on which secondary to pick, between rad and storm.

Ill/rad's strength against hard targets has been mentioned but what I don't believe has been pointed out yet is that illusion is a proc machine. Specifically, reactive 75% chance for fire damage. I happen to know someone with an ill/cold who got bored of soloing level 54 AVs because it was too easy.