Unlimited Respecs in Starter Zone
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-08-07 10:41 in Suggestions and Ideas
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I'm not sure that any player unfamiliar with the game or even MMO's in general really even thinks about their build in the first hour. I know I didn't, not until I had played for a lot longer than an hour, more like after my 14 days of free trial time had run out and I started subscribing to the game.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I guess you totally missed the part that caused my amazement... or are intentionally being obtuse to make me look more stupid than I would otherwise appear.
Also, to take on the statement above, it is not that I think new players are dumb... but more that they are ignorant of what things they may need to know, or remember in the first place. Also, I can't imagine most newer players have any idea there is a Test Server... I know I didn't learn about it until LONG after I had started playing (in fact, I didn't join the forums until months after I started playing... and didn't learn about Test until well after that). |
About the only people I would think that that hour can be spent doing something better than leveling another character up to level 6, is someone who's played the game long enough that they can get past level 10 in that same hour.
A new player, is going to spend a lot more time in the character creator than than will on getting to level 6, because our CC is just that awesome. They may forget to save their costume the first time, they probably wont the second time around. Isn't nice that we even have that option now?
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Well, I know I had a HUGE issue with leveling... I looked at every level up screen on my first character, over my first days of playing with a mixture of excitement and trepidation. I picked powers that sounded good to me, without really knowing what anything really did, and I constantly was thinking about having done it "wrong," but also I spent a good deal of my first power picks focusing on doing Damage since my first character was a Gravity Troller (and to me, needed to kill things faster... I had no idea that I had a "role" to play in a team setting). I also used all my TOs as well... I had no idea how little they did for me.|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
I'm not sure that any player unfamiliar with the game or even MMO's in general really even thinks about their build in the first hour.
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Oh, and by the way... the comments about spending an hour to get to Level 6 is a bit weird to me. When I first started, I think it took me an hour in the Tutorial just to learn how to MOVE around properly... You see, I had never played a game that required the use of the WASD keys to move my avatar before this one. Hell, I stared at the menus for prolly 15 minutes trying to figure out how to SAVE! I honestly think that I was in the Tutorial over 2 or maybe three play sessions. And then I spent a HUGE amount of time running around Galaxy City not exactly sure what I should be doing but afraid to team up since I was still learning and didn't want to inconvenience other folks with my ineptitude.
Way back at the dawn of time (about 82 months ago), I first entered the Outbreak tutorial zone . . . . No wait! There was no tutorial one back then.
I entered into Atlas Park close to the statue. I saw a large, green B. Banner run by, a xXWolverineXx slashing gang bangers, and a scantily clad woman beseeching players to join her group. I had no idea what to do.
I had read the little booklet that came with the game and decided that Bionic Flea would be a tough, invulnerable/super strength tank with the leaping pool (because fleas jump not fly!) I had no idea what to do, where to go, how to target, or how to send tells or switch to team chat. I think I spoke in broadcast for several weeks. There was a nice player who took me under his wing for an hour or so and taught me the basics. Thanks mysterious stranger!
I chose Resist Physical Damage over Temporary Invulnerability because they both added resistance but RPD cost no endurance, so it must be better! When I had a chance to pick up Temp. Inv. later I skipped it because it seemed redundant. I picked jump kick over Unyielding Stance because fleas jump and I didn't want to be stuck in one place. I don't remember how many other mistakes I made back then. But I kept reading the forums and getting advice from players in game and tried to correct my mistakes by picking up the essential powers I had skipped. I had no choice, respecs would not be introduced until several months later.
Despite my noobiness, I had fun. I mainly soloed, because I didn't want to subject my stupidity on others who seemed to know what was going on. Leveling initially was an hourly thing but that quickly changed from hourly to daily to weekly, and probably monthly towards the end. It took me longer because zoning took quite a bit of time on a dial up modem and I would run out of missions all the time to regain health and endurance.
Anyway, my point is that new players will make mistakes but that is a necessary part of the learning curve. You can have fun despite those mistakes.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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I thought you were teasing me with mock seriousness so I teased you right back in the same fashion. |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I guess you totally missed the part that caused my amazement... or are intentionally being obtuse to make me look more stupid than I would otherwise appear.
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And all that was back when the game was actually hard to play.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Way back at the dawn of time (about 82 months ago), I first entered the Outbreak tutorial zone . . . . No wait! There was no tutorial one back then.
I entered into Atlas Park close to the statue. I saw a large, green B. Banner run by, a xXWolverineXx slashing gang bangers, and a scantily clad woman beseeching players to join her group. I had no idea what to do. I had read the little booklet that came with the game and decided that Bionic Flea would be a tough, invulnerable/super strength tank with the leaping pool (because fleas jump not fly!) I had no idea what to do, where to go, how to target, or how to send tells or switch to team chat. I think I spoke in broadcast for several weeks. There was a nice player who took me under his wing for an hour or so and taught me the basics. Thanks mysterious stranger! I chose Resist Physical Damage over Temporary Invulnerability because they both added resistance but RPD cost no endurance, so it must be better! When I had a chance to pick up Temp. Inv. later I skipped it because it seemed redundant. I picked jump kick over Unyielding Stance because fleas jump and I didn't want to be stuck in one place. I don't remember how many other mistakes I made back then. But I kept reading the forums and getting advice from players in game and tried to correct my mistakes by picking up the essential powers I had skipped. I had no choice, respecs would not be introduced until several months later. Despite my noobiness, I had fun. I mainly soloed, because I didn't want to subject my stupidity on others who seemed to know what was going on. Leveling initially was an hourly thing but that quickly changed from hourly to daily to weekly, and probably monthly towards the end. It took me longer because zoning took quite a bit of time on a dial up modem and I would run out of missions all the time to regain health and endurance. Anyway, my point is that new players will make mistakes but that is a necessary part of the learning curve. You can have fun despite those mistakes. |
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Same.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
I chose Resist Physical Damage over Temporary Invulnerability because they both added resistance but RPD cost no endurance, so it must be better! When I had a chance to pick up Temp. Inv. later I skipped it because it seemed redundant. I picked jump kick over Unyielding Stance because fleas jump and I didn't want to be stuck in one place.
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However from the point of view of the Suggestion, I bet you didn't notice those mistakes until much much later. So I really don't think unlimited respecs in Outbreak will do anything other than add one more complication.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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This is why I hate text based communication. I can't hear tone... and my Sarcasmadar and "Playful Ribbing Meter" are in the shop. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I thought you were teasing me with mock seriousness so I teased you right back in the same fashion.
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I see far more downsides to this suggestion than upsides, and for that, I'd have to say I hope it doesn't happen. With unlimited changes to their build, there is no finality to the build. All of a sudden you change things up later, and they're stuck with their choices all of a sudden. The worst thing a system can be is inconsistent, as that makes it far more difficult to know what works which way, and what you can expect. Likewise, unlimited changes at such an early level reveal nothing about how the character will actually work in the end. You only get access to early pool powers and a handful of your own primary/secondary abilities. Besides all this, respecs are user unfriendly, especially to beginners. Putting them right there for beginners? Not the best introduction for a player/character.
Perhaps a better approach would be to have at the powers select screen a version of the power customization screen, with an enemy so that both the effects and animations are shown.
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No harm, no foul. |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
This is why I hate text based communication. I can't hear tone... and my Sarcasmadar and "Playful Ribbing Meter" are in the shop.
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As long as people are willing to keep the lines of communication open like we just did we can minimize misunderstandings and get clarification on what was meant.Far too often people take things on the forums as Thunderdomesque duels to the death.
For the record just because I disagree with Oedipus in this thread doesn't mean there's any animosity. We're just opinionated.
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Maybe YOU're opinionated. I'm just right. If more people would just admit that to themselves, the forum would be so much better! >.> |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
We're just opinionated.
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:d rofl!
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Originally Posted by memphis_bill
maybe you're opinionated. I'm just right. If more people would just admit that to themselves, the forum would be so much better! >.>
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Originally Posted by Jagged
Same.
However from the point of view of the Suggestion, I bet you didn't notice those mistakes until much much later. So I really don't think unlimited respecs in Outbreak will do anything other than add one more complication. |
Well, the point was not intended to be that a level 6 character could pick powers that would fit into a level 50 build. At least that is not what it used for in other games I have seen it in. It's just a small finishing touch that IMO makes them look modern and polished. Yes you can reroll in those games as well for about the same time sink, but you don't have to. You can test out a few starter powers, get an idea of what the ones you have do, get an idea of what the ones you don't have do so you can consider that in the future, and just play from there.
And to avoid confusion, the contact in those games specifically says "You are allowed to rechoose your powers until you leave this tutorial." Are some people envisioning new CoX players literally having to type "/respec?" I was thinking more of the talk to dude in Galaxy City, except only in the tutorial zone and without a check to see if you have respecs stored. Anyway it seems to work fine in other games that have it. Certainly much easier than the counter suggestion to use the Test Server, which if I'm not mistaken means getting to whatever level without picking any powers, then transferring, because you don't get unlimited respecs there either and the auto-50 code is not always turned on, and as was pointed out, you can't use an alt build either. And even if you did level up without picking any powers, your first pick was locked before you ever set foot in the game and cannot be changed without a respec.
As you said yourself, Standard Code Rant applies.
An option exists now which requires no additional coding or developer time: delete, reroll.
(Heck, now that we can save costumes, you don't even have to go through setting that up again.)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
As you said yourself, Standard Code Rant applies.
An option exists now which requires no additional coding or developer time: delete, reroll. (Heck, now that we can save costumes, you don't even have to go through setting that up again.) |
I think we should leave it to the developers to determine what is worth coding time. Standard code rant applies in both directions. For all we know, this feature already exists in the revised Tutorial. The request would be a lot more off the wall if it weren't a suggestion about a specific feature to consider adding to modified content. I'm 100% sure if I had written "oh and include a giant monster at the end of the tutorial" without it being known one already existed there, I'd have received the same reaction, this being the Suggestions forum.
The tutorial is being revised anyway. It either will or will not include this. I hope it does, but only if it is easy to do. If it isn't, well lots of things never get implemented because they are too difficult or time consuming, but that is not the duty of players to decide. No one but the developers know how hard or easy it is, or even whether it already exists. But competing products do have this feature, and yes, some people use it, and no, it is not confusing.
Let me ask this. How many other powers in the other games do you have to choose from by lv 6? If you just grab your primary and secondary here, you are missing out on 2 powers by lv 6 (not counting pool powers). Are you really telling us that this is needed this badly so you can try out 2 other powers?
Also, to take on the statement above, it is not that I think new players are dumb... but more that they are ignorant of what things they may need to know, or remember in the first place. Also, I can't imagine most newer players have any idea there is a Test Server... I know I didn't learn about it until LONG after I had started playing (in fact, I didn't join the forums until months after I started playing... and didn't learn about Test until well after that).