Do you think Time Manipulation will work well with MM's?
By
8-J,
Posted on: 2011-08-06 19:46 in Masterminds
DS/TM is my new favourite build for general pve solo content.
Until it gets nerfed.
As long as you have fun with it! Although I think it doesn't compliment Demon's Resistance strengths at all, and you basically give up both a capped Resistance number and a Softcap number, and trade it for...
... I guess if we abuse Power Boost, about 35% Defense (With Maneuvers + Pet IOs and whatever value the base Demon AoE Shield is +20% from IOs
Bleh.
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You must be very popular on your SG/VG/server. nice of you to "praise" someone yet still convey your negativity because they view something different than you.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
As long as you have fun with it! Although I think it doesn't compliment Demon's Resistance strengths at all, and you basically give up both a capped Resistance number and a Softcap number, and trade it for...
... I guess if we abuse Power Boost, about 35% Defense (With Maneuvers + Pet IOs and whatever value the base Demon AoE Shield is +20% from IOs Bleh. |
And to expand a bit more on that its 37.5% def after powerboost, manuevers, and pets IOs and the demons have 58% smash and lethal 74% fire resist with just the demon aoe buff(with a generic res IO) and the 2 pet uniques. Then Times juncture should be around 14% -tohit with 4 dark watchers and you have a very B A L A N C E D combo of LAYERED DEF. You know the thing that bots/traps MMs strive for? softcapped def with a res shield(ie charged armor)+ bodyguard.
hell if you wanna be cute grant invis should add around another 2.5% def AFTER suppression and fits your build another LOTG!! Oh and the demon prince loves to cast shiver which stacks with his chilling embrace which should stack(for overkill purposes) to the aoe -slow -recharge in /time. my god someone record a video of a x8 spawn with this combo because it seems to me this is pure autowin.Demons love being in melee b/c of all the pbaoe and aoe they have. im pretty sure id have fun too with a combo like that b/c with ur heal and the demons heal, well im sure we all can see where that will lead.
AVs? bleh id rather mow down x8 mobs over and over again for more chances at purples to further fund my future IO projects than go hunting for some silly AVs. And time will help with that just fine. So just as other have mentioned this powerset will be great for MMs and will work just fine with our primary. get over yourself(or maybe get over you precious bots/traps or thugs/traps or w/e) and realize there are other powersets out there. this game is easy enough anyways we dont need every damn set in the game to plow through content on auto pilot.
Oh and to Klaw DAMN YOU I already have a name, the IOs, and a background story for my new NECRO/TIME b/c its the one MM primary I dont have at 50 yet and now . . . i want a demons/time!! haha not enough slots!!!!
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Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
You must be very popular on your SG/VG/server. nice of you to "praise" someone yet still convey your negativity because they view something different than you.
And to expand a bit more on that its 37.5% def after powerboost, manuevers, and pets IOs and the demons have 58% smash and lethal 74% fire resist with just the demon aoe buff(with a generic res IO) and the 2 pet uniques. Then Times juncture should be around 14% -tohit with 4 dark watchers and you have a very B A L A N C E D combo of LAYERED DEF. You know the thing that bots/traps MMs strive for? softcapped def with a res shield(ie charged armor)+ bodyguard. hell if you wanna be cute grant invis should add around another 2.5% def AFTER suppression and fits your build another LOTG!! Oh and the demon prince loves to cast shiver which stacks with his chilling embrace which should stack(for overkill purposes) to the aoe -slow -recharge in /time. my god someone record a video of a x8 spawn with this combo because it seems to me this is pure autowin.Demons love being in melee b/c of all the pbaoe and aoe they have. im pretty sure id have fun too with a combo like that b/c with ur heal and the demons heal, well im sure we all can see where that will lead. AVs? bleh id rather mow down x8 mobs over and over again for more chances at purples to further fund my future IO projects than go hunting for some silly AVs. And time will help with that just fine. So just as other have mentioned this powerset will be great for MMs and will work just fine with our primary. get over yourself(or maybe get over you precious bots/traps or thugs/traps or w/e) and realize there are other powersets out there. this game is easy enough anyways we dont need every damn set in the game to plow through content on auto pilot. Oh and to Klaw DAMN YOU I already have a name, the IOs, and a background story for my new NECRO/TIME b/c its the one MM primary I dont have at 50 yet and now . . . i want a demons/time!! haha not enough slots!!!! |
Ew, Grant Invis. Let's not suggest horrible attempts now~
As for Time's Juncture? Pfft. While the -ToHit is valid, it's still subject to the Purple Patch. Something to acknowledge.
Anywho! Don't be so rude and attacking like that. I did praise you for sticking with Time! I also expressed my own opinion, because you added an "Until it gets nerfed" tag the end. That's suggesting Time is anything but a horribly nerfed Traps!
But yes, adding tags like that usually invokes me to make a comment or two. Don't get so angry over it next time. It's kind of funny, but mostly just sad that you got so angry over an opinion.
(PS: I'm rather oddly (in)famous on Virtue. Go figure! I think some people love my open opinions! And just as many people hate me for them! <3)
/time is not a nerfed version of traps, it i its own powerset.
Get over yourself.
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I've already been damned. |
Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
Oh and to Klaw DAMN YOU
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Very nice post you've obviuously done your research. Even without the numbers just by looking at the powers you can tell it's going to be freakishly strong. But have fun with your zombies
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And stop praising it like it's the second coming of some dead guy! Misinforming people of what it can and can't do isn't right.
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
/time is not a nerfed version of traps, it i its own powerset.
Get over yourself. |
Here's some information that is totally factual!
I just walked through the Save Longbow POWs mission from Leventara on 0/8 on a Bots/Time on nothing but SOs with some of the iPowers running such as T4 Cardiac and T3 Reactive. I was able to totally dominate this mission with extraordinary ease. My bots had almost 40% defense and the huge amount of slows and debuffs set the mobs up like bowling pins that they knocked down happily.
Even without the iPowers I could have easily accomplished this mission at this difficulty. They simply made it go faster.
My typical strategy was to target the mentalist and open with time crawl followed by time stop. I would then jump right into the middle of the pack to hit enemies with Time's Juncture, then I'd lay down a Distortion Field and hit the TAoE -def -res power.
At this point if my Bots hadn't already starting shooting I'd command them to attack something (because I have so much defense I at times wouldn't even take a hit, which meant my Bots wouldn't react with the BG mode enabled).
So I think /time works extremely well with MMs. Better than /Dark? Better than /Traps? I dunno. All I know is I was practically unstoppable in this scenario. Not being able to buff my Bots recharge is a bummer, but it's still worth having Chrono Shift for my own powers.
Sounds like it runs as well as any other MM set, then. Granted if it couldn't run at +X/x8, it would be trash then compared to the other dominate MM secondaries.
That said? I never doubted it's solo abilities. I just question if it's better than Traps or Dark for team utility. And with out that -Regen... hm.
Oh well.
Between the huge amounts of crowd control, the ability to supercharge your teammates, and the great debuffing, I'd say /time has great team utility.
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Time is an awesome set, but I don't like it for its -regen. Poison Trap is -1000% regen perma with 3 seconds overlap on my trapper. Its not a spike.
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
So, yeah. -regen weakness? Not really. There are other sets that have it worse. Let's do a graph of -regen over time with downtime taken into account? I'm thinking that a steady, dependable source of -regen is better than a single spike from a higher-tier power, even if that spike is higher.
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Here's the problem.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
So, yeah. -regen weakness? Not really. There are other sets that have it worse. Let's do a graph of -regen over time with downtime taken into account? I'm thinking that a steady, dependable source of -regen is better than a single spike from a higher-tier power, even if that spike is higher.
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Look at your typical +4 AV. a +4 AV resists regen debuffs by approximately 87%. your -100% regen has been reduced to 13%.
This is the reason that almost every serious regen debuff in the game (lingering rad, howling twilight, poison trap, etc etc) are from 500%-1000%. Twilights grasp is only something to consider because you can stack it several times between you and fluffy, otherwise it'd be fairly useless too.
The fact is, because of AV resist rates on -regen, -100% regen is pretty close to useless, and thats why there's a complaint. A spike of -1000% regen IS better, even if you can call it a spike, which it isnt. Many of these -regen powers are pretty much perma in reasonable play these days. in the 30 seconds to a minute most of these powers are active, you've floored the regen of an AV altogether, and the group can simply take it out in that time.
Occasionally it takes longer, like romulus in the ITF, or other scenarios, but for the most part, a burst of 30 seconds of larger regen is far more valuable to your team than a consistant 100% -regen.
As for Reppu, sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. He's right when he says he's a bit famous on virtue. But please dont conclude from that, that he's representative of us. He's not.
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Oh hell no I don't represent Virtue. I'm not a big enough furry ERPer to represent the mass majority of the Virtue Playerbase.|
Originally Posted by Weables1
Here's the problem.
Look at your typical +4 AV. a +4 AV resists regen debuffs by approximately 87%. your -100% regen has been reduced to 13%. This is the reason that almost every serious regen debuff in the game (lingering rad, howling twilight, poison trap, etc etc) are from 500%-1000%. Twilights grasp is only something to consider because you can stack it several times between you and fluffy, otherwise it'd be fairly useless too. The fact is, because of AV resist rates on -regen, -100% regen is pretty close to useless, and thats why there's a complaint. A spike of -1000% regen IS better, even if you can call it a spike, which it isnt. Many of these -regen powers are pretty much perma in reasonable play these days. in the 30 seconds to a minute most of these powers are active, you've floored the regen of an AV altogether, and the group can simply take it out in that time. Occasionally it takes longer, like romulus in the ITF, or other scenarios, but for the most part, a burst of 30 seconds of larger regen is far more valuable to your team than a consistant 100% -regen. As for Reppu, sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. He's right when he says he's a bit famous on virtue. But please dont conclude from that, that he's representative of us. He's not. |
YES. I WENT THERE. >:O
PS: Reppu's a girl qqqqqqqqq
Famous on Virtue? Never heard of them, and Virtue's my home server.
Also, let's face facts here, the only reason the -regen is only -100% is because it's in the first power in the set. Twilight Grasp has an even lower -regen component to it (-50%), and only becomes ON PAR with Time Crawl because of Fluffy-stacking. /Dark's main source of -regen is Howling Twilight, a power that comes later in the build, and the primarily intended use is not as a debuffing tool. Poison Trap comes a full 10 levels later than Howling Twilight, and its only use is debuffing with a minute amount of crowd control.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some additional -regen in /Time, far from it. I personally think that every debuff in /time should do some -regen since they all revolve around manipulating the flow of time. At the very least, Time Stop should have a -500% regen similar to Howling Twilight's simply because you're essentially freezing your target in that moment in time. Of course, this kind of discussion should really be taking place in the beta forums rather than the live forums, preferably Feedback.
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Yeah no. Every support set needs a weakness, and the weakness of Time is it's -Regen defunct. Working as intended, fixing it would make the set not have a /Single Weakness/. THAT would have me up in arms for massive nerf-herding of every single power in the set until each one is SIGNIFICANTLY (Read: Minimum 25%) weaker than they are now.
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Famous on Virtue? Never heard of them, and Virtue's my home server.
Also, let's face facts here, the only reason the -regen is only -100% is because it's in the first power in the set. Twilight Grasp has an even lower -regen component to it (-50%), and only becomes ON PAR with Time Crawl because of Fluffy-stacking. /Dark's main source of -regen is Howling Twilight, a power that comes later in the build, and the primarily intended use is not as a debuffing tool. Poison Trap comes a full 10 levels later than Howling Twilight, and its only use is debuffing with a minute amount of crowd control. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some additional -regen in /Time, far from it. I personally think that every debuff in /time should do some -regen since they all revolve around manipulating the flow of time. At the very least, Time Stop should have a -500% regen similar to Howling Twilight's simply because you're essentially freezing your target in that moment in time. Of course, this kind of discussion should really be taking place in the beta forums rather than the live forums, preferably Feedback. |
Yeah. I got to agree. It sounds like other posters are merely complaining that Time Manip isn't OP enough for their tastes, not that it wouldn't work well for MM's.
The only drawback for MM's is that the +30 recharge effect is wasted when you use it on a pet. But probably the +50 regen, and the damage buff make up for that. I'm thinking it might be good to use with Thugs, and put it on the Arsonist.
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since regen is based on targets hp amount and pets have such low hp to begin with I cant really see that argument working out that well, I see the set as amazing for defenders and probably better than poison for MMs
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Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Yeah. I got to agree. It sounds like other posters are merely complaining that Time Manip isn't OP enough for their tastes, not that it wouldn't work well for MM's.
The only drawback for MM's is that the +30 recharge effect is wasted when you use it on a pet. But probably the +50 regen, and the damage buff make up for that. I'm thinking it might be good to use with Thugs, and put it on the Arsonist. |
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Not really. From working with a merc/pain dom I can tell you that regen is just as useful for lower hit point characters as well as higher. There is a marked difference in the regen of my pets inside of my ((Sadly short)) pain tolerance range and those outside of it.
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
since regen is based on targets hp amount and pets have such low hp to begin with I cant really see that argument working out that well, I see the set as amazing for defenders and probably better than poison for MMs
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