How does -Dam work?


all_hell

 

Posted

In particular, I'm thinking of Chilling Embrace. It has a 14% -dam buff that it applies. I think that this sould be applied to the mob you are facing and not to yourself as a buff, but I have no knowledge of the mechanics.
I guess the question is will it let you circumvent the resistance cap?
If I were to be running charged armor and surge of power I would be easily capped for S/L/E at 75%. Would Chilling Embrace add to this and give me an effective 89% resistance to damage? Yeah, I know, it's only to those in melee.

If so, would this mean that a dp/ice running chem rounds could have a shot at becoming a Blasting Tanker (Banker?)? If only for a short time.


 

Posted

It is a pbaoe aura so it is applied to the damage strength of all foes in range. This means that you can't just add them directly because the -dam is applied first and then the resistance but, yes, there will be less damage to resist. Remember that there is a -rech as well so there will also be less attacks over time.

I totally want to roll a banker now.


 

Posted

That makes sense. If I've done the math correctly you would be at an effective rate of 78.5% resistance with just CE running. Using a base blast of 100 incomming damage, that's 100 - ((100 - dam debuff) * (1 - resist)) = effective resistance. My formula could be way off.

The sad part is I don't think you can get more than a max of -35 dam buff on a group at one time. the Effective resistance on that would be 83.75% in my earlier scenario (DP/Ice). While still above the max resistance, you can see it's effectiveness is not quite what you would think just from looking at it.

And yeah, the -rech is awesome, but i was just wondering about that part of it. /Ice can easily place some serious damage mitigation on a crowd.


 

Posted

Add Paralytic and void to stack up some -damage. If you want to go the incarnate route.

You have done the math correctly.


 

Posted

Is -dam resisted by mobs?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
Is -dam resisted by mobs?
Not usually. It is very handy vrs most av's as it isnt often resisted.


 

Posted

I would have never thought of applying it that way. That's a great idea

I want a Banker now(:


 

Posted

IIRC a Dark/DP defender using chem rounds can keep a spawn a little over -50% damage and can do so at range. Like all teamed defenders the damage sucks though.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
IIRC a Dark/DP defender using chem rounds can keep a spawn a little over -50% damage and can do so at range. Like all teamed defenders the damage sucks though.
I have a Sonic/DP defender build that is softcapped and at effectivly 68.8% before factoring in the extra -dmg the -resists do. That is also before void, paralytic and without Hail of bullets -25% damage factored in. Sonic helps with the damage aspect.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge View Post
Not usually. It is very handy vrs most av's as it isnt often resisted.
-Dmg is resisted by any resistances the target has and it goes by individual types of dmg. So if an enemy has 20% cold resistance and you apply -cold dmg to the target it will only be 80% effective.


Level 50s: to many to remember at this point

 

Posted

Yep, damage resistance doubles as damage debuff resistance. This is most apparent against the many critters in the game that have high damage resistance to their own damage type (a robot that deals lethal damage, for instance... or fricking Marauder).

Works with negative resistances, too. If a critter is vulnerable to the same type of damage it does (a robot that deals smashing and energy damage, for instance), your damage debuffs will be more effective against that target.

Also works with debuffed resistances. It's an old defender trick. Try it! On your Sonic/Ice blaster (I know you totally have one), tag a Chilling Embraced target with a Sonic Blast, and their damage will go down just a teensy bit more.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynstar View Post
-Dmg is resisted by any resistances the target has and it goes by individual types of dmg. So if an enemy has 20% cold resistance and you apply -cold dmg to the target it will only be 80% effective.
You also have to factor in that some Mobs don't actually deal the damage they have resistance to, and both -resistance and -dmg effectively stack on each other, so if an enemy has 20% lethal resistance, but deals cold damage and has 0% cold resistance, and say you debuff them by -20% damage, they will deal about 16% less lethal damage, but 20% less cold damage..

Now if you lower thier resistance, then lower their damage, you can effectively increase your -dmg by your -resistance, and cause them to do even less damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent View Post
Yep, damage resistance doubles as damage debuff resistance. This is most apparent against the many critters in the game that have high damage resistance to their own damage type (a robot that deals lethal damage, for instance... or fricking Marauder).

Works with negative resistances, too. If a critter is vulnerable to the same type of damage it does (a robot that deals smashing and energy damage, for instance), your damage debuffs will be more effective against that target.

Also works with debuffed resistances. It's an old defender trick. Try it! On your Sonic/Ice blaster (I know you totally have one), tag a Chilling Embraced target with a Sonic Blast, and their damage will go down just a teensy bit more.
So, do you know the math for this? For instance if you are running a high end Cold/DP fender who has thrown out 2 sleets and a heat loss on an AV, he's got 90% -resists going on that AV. If he throws down chem rounded hail of bullets with a 25% -dam, what could he expect for an actual -dam number? Or for his effective resistance? For this example, lets assume the AV has 50% resistance to everything. That would mean the AV is running at -40% resistances when the hail of bullets was fired. That would mean... Gaaaah! my formula is useless... numbers mean nothing now... Algebra is extinct... Calculus is a fraud....

Also... Sweet! I got two ppl calling it a Banker.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA View Post
So, do you know the math for this? For instance if you are running a high end Cold/DP fender who has thrown out 2 sleets and a heat loss on an AV, he's got 90% -resists going on that AV. If he throws down chem rounded hail of bullets with a 25% -dam, what could he expect for an actual -dam number? Or for his effective resistance? For this example, lets assume the AV has 50% resistance to everything. That would mean the AV is running at -40% resistances when the hail of bullets was fired. That would mean... Gaaaah! my formula is useless... numbers mean nothing now... Algebra is extinct... Calculus is a fraud....

Also... Sweet! I got two ppl calling it a Banker.
R(type) = Foe's resistance to the type of damage being considered
RD = Resistance Debuff thrown at foe
DD = Damage Debuff thrown at foe
PP = Purple Patch modifier for your debuffs
DD' = Final damage debuff

DD' = [1 - R(type) + R(type) * RD * PP] * DD * PP

So if the AV is +1 to you, has 50% Res to the type in question, you throw -90% Res at them and then -25% Damage you get this...

DD' = [1 - 0.5 + 0.5 * 0.9 * 0.9] * 0.25 * 0.9
DD' = 20.3625%

In words: Your -90% Res becomes -81% against a +1. The foe's Res then Resists 50% of that, leaving it a -40.5% debuff and their Res at 9.5%. Which lowers the -Dmg that much to 22.625%. Then the Purple Patch scales that down by 10% for their being +1, leaving the 20.3625% -Dmg debuff.

Anyway, my Rad/Psi Def can stack -40% Res easily from EF, Reactive and an Achilles' proc in RI to buff her -75% Dmg from EF and Void. It only last 30s, but for a typical Boss that's around -32% Res and -84% Dmg.


Kosmos

Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionut911 View Post
I want a Banker now(:
You mean those folks who work with money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA View Post
Blasting Tanker (Banker?)?
Hmmm...

Maybe Blanker... or Tankster?



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
Maybe Blanker... or Tankster?
I generally go with Blanker for my ranged Inv/SS tanker.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
I generally go with Blanker for my ranged Inv/SS tanker.
I call mine a VEAT.


Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich

Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?

 

Posted

Mines a Warshade. My fire/fire/fire blasters tries to tank, but with Rise of the Pheonix recharging as slow as it does, i just can't tank like i used to


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos View Post
R(type) = Foe's resistance to the type of damage being considered
RD = Resistance Debuff thrown at foe
DD = Damage Debuff thrown at foe
PP = Purple Patch modifier for your debuffs
DD' = Final damage debuff

DD' = [1 - R(type) + R(type) * RD * PP] * DD * PP

So if the AV is +1 to you, has 50% Res to the type in question, you throw -90% Res at them and then -25% Damage you get this...

DD' = [1 - 0.5 + 0.5 * 0.9 * 0.9] * 0.25 * 0.9
DD' = 20.3625%

In words: Your -90% Res becomes -81% against a +1. The foe's Res then Resists 50% of that, leaving it a -40.5% debuff and their Res at 9.5%. Which lowers the -Dmg that much to 22.625%. Then the Purple Patch scales that down by 10% for their being +1, leaving the 20.3625% -Dmg debuff.

Anyway, my Rad/Psi Def can stack -40% Res easily from EF, Reactive and an Achilles' proc in RI to buff her -75% Dmg from EF and Void. It only last 30s, but for a typical Boss that's around -32% Res and -84% Dmg.
Nice. Thx for the math. sounds like an impressive trick overall.