It doesn't get more Brutish than Stone Melee.
Screen shake so nice, I Incarnate leveled it twice. (Sm/Wp, Sm/Elec).
You've got big stone hammers, you have Seismic Smash, you have screen shaking punches, you have a foot stomp that sends everything staggering at level 8, you have Seismic Smash, you have a jump in the air and hit the ground so hard everything falls over tier 9 attack. And you have Seismic Smash.
It. Is. Glorious.
(Also endurance intensive with any kind of recharge. Best paired with a secondary that can help with that.)
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Yes, I was leaning towards stone, but the end use is what scares me, considering I would most likely be dark armor, another end hog. I'd like to hear from some WM and axe players as well so see their thoughts.
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My main is a inv/ba tank, and I also have a wm/sd tank, and a bs/sd scrap.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Yes, I was leaning towards stone, but the end use is what scares me, considering I would most likely be dark armor, another end hog. I'd like to hear from some WM and axe players as well so see their thoughts.
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Battle axe is not a clone of broadsword, at all.
Between ba and wm, I much prefer ax. Stuns suck unless you have no combat aura.
Battleax does huge amounts of glorious knockdown. It feels incredibly powerful, and adds a lot of survivability.
It feels VERY smash.
I can only speak to WM and Stone as I have only briefly tried Axe. I do like some of the axes though.
I have an equal lvl WM and Stone brute at the moment on different servers. I think they are both fun, and I find them both effective. If I play them seperatly, I kind of feel they are similar, when I play one right after the other, I always go away thinking I should delete the WM as I just think the Stone Melee is more fun (not more effective really, just more fun). It just feel superheroish.
I think TheBruteSquad summed up my feelings about it pretty well.
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Outside of KB protection IOs, the +end proc is the one you want for DR. You'll still need to look for more ways for end recovery, but it's doable. DA really turns into a beast once epic/patrons start to kick in and certainly when more IOs and Incarnate powers get added.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Yes, I was leaning towards stone, but the end use is what scares me, considering I would most likely be dark armor, another end hog. I'd like to hear from some WM and axe players as well so see their thoughts.
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I have a /Mace Tanker, a Mace/ Brute, and a melee-only Mace Bane. They're all great. Mace is very powerful and does SMASH in an incredibly satisfying way.
My Axe/ Brute is currently level 30 and is progressing very nicely. Axe is great for damage and knockdowns, and feels very powerful.
I have a Stone/Stone Tanker (my first character in CoH). /Stone is strong, but, like you said, END becomes very precious. Still, the sound of the attacks and the shaking screen is cool.
I'd say you can't go wrong with any of the three, but my preference would be Mace.
Please try my arcs:
Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
All three sets are essentially kings of mitigation and burst damage so you can't go wrong with any of them. That being said between axe and mace, they are essentially clones of each other but mace has more AoE potential due to a larger cones and more max targets so most prefer mace over axe (also disorient mitigates more damage than KB but both are nice...idk about "stuns suck unless you have a damage armor" my Mace/SR brute never had a problem. So you're left with either Mace or Stone. Really both are great sets and are the epitome of SMASH but Mace has more AoE potential (Stone has tremor and it is sooooo sloooowwww) while Stone has the ultimate mitigation tool (fault) and burst damage that is incomparable. So it's left to your taste.
EDIT: Mace's heavy hitter also animates faster than Battle Axe's and has more damage (Clobber vs. Cleave) and Cleave's arc is only 20 degrees while Shatter's is 45 and Shatter has more max targets at the cost of less base damage. (Basically Mace wins in ST damage and AoE) Also Mace's damage type is smashing and BA's is lethal. Smashing is generally considered better because it is less resisted throughout the game (though still commonly resisted).
Thanks for the input everybody. It sounds like all 3 are great sets, so I'm still not sure. To narrow it down, I guess I will have to pick the one that doesn't just FEEL powerful, but actually is the most powerful. Which does the most raw damage?
I really like AoE damage, so it seems that Stone is out, since it seems to clearly have the least of the three. Can others confirm Colossal's claim that WM will generally outdamage Axe? Is WM really better in both ST and AoE damage?
And lastly, I read somewhere that WM will most likely be better on scrappers than brutes. Is there truth to this? I wouldn't want to make one AT, if the same set is clearly better on another.
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It's closer for ST but Mace is generally considered the better of the two sets. AoE just look at mids, Mace's cone is wider and has more max targets.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Thanks for the input everybody. It sounds like all 3 are great sets, so I'm still not sure. To narrow it down, I guess I will have to pick the one that doesn't just FEEL powerful, but actually is the most powerful. Which does the most raw damage?
I really like AoE damage, so it seems that Stone is out, since it seems to clearly have the least of the three. Can others confirm Colossal's claim that WM will generally outdamage Axe? Is WM really better in both ST and AoE damage? And lastly, I read somewhere that WM will most likely be better on scrappers than brutes. Is there truth to this? I wouldn't want to make one AT, if the same set is clearly better on another. |
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WM, by a hair, on AE only. Cleave in Ax is a small enough cone it is rare to hit more than 2-3 with it, even though it goes to ten targets. Of course, it hits like a grenade, so I can sorta see why. |
Originally Posted by Supermax
Thanks for the input everybody. It sounds like all 3 are great sets, so I'm still not sure. To narrow it down, I guess I will have to pick the one that doesn't just FEEL powerful, but actually is the most powerful. Which does the most raw damage?
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| I really like AoE damage, so it seems that Stone is out, since it seems to clearly have the least of the three. Can others confirm Colossal's claim that WM will generally outdamage Axe? Is WM really better in both ST and AoE damage? |
However: If you choose dark armor, wm causes significant amounts of stun. Stunned bad guys do not attack you, but they also wander away. This means they are too far away to fuel things like your heal, which is rather important on a dark armor toon.
WM was rebuilt some years ago to bring it to parity with ax. Since its secondary effects are not as benign as ax's, it was given slightly more AOE capacity to compensate.
Really, just play the one you like best, it's that close.
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| And lastly, I read somewhere that WM will most likely be better on scrappers than brutes. Is there truth to this? I wouldn't want to make one AT, if the same set is clearly better on another. |
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If by better you mean more damage then every primary is better on a Scrapper (except perhaps fire melee).
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Originally Posted by Supermax
And lastly, I read somewhere that WM will most likely be better on scrappers than brutes. Is there truth to this? I wouldn't want to make one AT, if the same set is clearly better on another.
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Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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Well, Mace does have the advantage of doing smashing damage, which is somewhat less resisted and has a fair amount of enemies (many robots) that are weak to it.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Can others confirm Colossal's claim that WM will generally outdamage Axe? Is WM really better in both ST and AoE damage?
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I have a level 50 SM/WP Brute and Ice/Axe Tank. I also have a mid level Mace/Shield brute. Honestly all 3 are fun. I think you may find Stone Melee to be more fun. Seems the most brutish of the 3. War Mace is also really fun. As far as endurance goes there are ways to manage it. EA should be able to handle the endurance issue from any of the above sets. Just use careful slotting
You cant go wrong with any of the above. Try them all and see which you enjoy more.
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Warmace has solid ST hitters and the best AoE capabilites of the 3. It has Crowd Control, which is KD and not stun, which is pretty much the jewel of the set.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
So I'm looking on input on the 3 weapon sets in the subject. What are the pros/cons of each, as compared to each other?
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Stone Melee has the heaviest ST hitters, but also the heaviest end use. It is the king of soft control mitigation through fault and KD, but it has the worst AoE capabilities of the three. This is the only choice that will not incur redraw with DA.
BA is not too dissimilar to BS in terms of the attacks it gets, it does have a lot of KD however and does not have a parry clone. It also has pendulum, which does a bit more damage than Crowd Control, but has a max of 5 targets vs. the 10 that Crowd Control can hit.
I think I found the solution. Stone is out since it doesn't have enough AoE for my tastes. And I think I'll just make both an axe and a mace....one DA and one EA. Any thoughts on which primary would synergize more with which secondary? I'm thinking DA would go well with mace, to stack the stuns with OG?
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Yeah, if you want synergy that's the way to go. The only particularly unique attraction to pairing War Mace with Electric is...Thor.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
I'm thinking DA would go well with mace, to stack the stuns with OG?
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Stuns aren't something that are very appealing from a Brute playstyle perspective, IMO.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
I think I found the solution. Stone is out since it doesn't have enough AoE for my tastes. And I think I'll just make both an axe and a mace....one DA and one EA. Any thoughts on which primary would synergize more with which secondary? I'm thinking DA would go well with mace, to stack the stuns with OG?
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Enemies not attacking you are enemies not generating fury.
Warmace, is somewhat on the slower side (same for BA) and therefore does not generate Fury as well as some of the faster sets (Claws, Fire Melee).
So now you have two things that can have the potential to hinder top end fury.
On top of this, regardless of whether you choose BA or WM to go with DA, you are looking at a fairly end intensive build. Slot early, and will need to slot heavy for end rdx. You will also be facing some redraw (the redraw from WM drives me nuts).
Personally, I would probably pair either of them with Invuln, WP, SD, Ela and possibly the new EA before I went with DA.
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An yet /dark also has the ability to cause stun and I just don't see mobs scattering that far way to not fuel DR. It certainly hasn't been an issue on my Dark/stone tank.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
However: If you choose dark armor, wm causes significant amounts of stun. Stunned bad guys do not attack you, but they also wander away. This means they are too far away to fuel things like your heal, which is rather important on a dark armor toon.
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All three are good in their own way. For me, mace is more -satisfying-.
Axe gets pretty monotonous, but is also intense...the various hits are pretty similar but on the other hand you don't have to really manage your attack order or try to set up combos; each attack does basically the same thing except for whirling axe and the small cones aren't worth repositioning for. Axe blooms later. You can juggle things with axe pretty easily. I have 1 axe character, and have thus far felt no urge to make another.
Mace is fun, and feels brutal, but the stun are not as effective as the reliable knock down of axe IMO. You get more variety of weapon costume choices w/ mace. The AoE's are noticeable on mace, but on the other hand I find myself having to dance around more to line em up for max effect. I have several mace characters; I have no hesitation to make another.
Stone is cool, but has a lot of extraneous sfx, with rocky bits popping off you. It feels like Superstrength without rage. It sucks a lot of endurance. It feels tough, but I always hesitate to choose it. I have a couple of stones, I rarely play either.
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Not enough to notice? I notice all the time on my /BA tanker that I do not hit as many targets as I do on my /WM brute. You said yourself you're hitting 2-3 targets using cleave, with /WM's cone I regularly hit 4-5. Also, Battle Axe's big cone (180 degrees. Pendulum) hits 5 max target and Pendulum's (/WM's big cone, 180 degrees) hits 10. That's DOUBLE the targets and it's rare if I hit less than 7 (8-10 on average) guys when using it. /WM has actually a very noticeable advantage in AoE damage. And as stated before (and I thought it was obvious so I did not state it) Crowd Control does KB not disorient as it's secondary effect. It's hard for mobs to slowly stagger away when they're are being knocked down every 7-8 seconds.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Not enough to notice, no.
However: If you choose dark armor, wm causes significant amounts of stun. Stunned bad guys do not attack you, but they also wander away. This means they are too far away to fuel things like your heal, which is rather important on a dark armor toon. WM was rebuilt some years ago to bring it to parity with ax. Since its secondary effects are not as benign as ax's, it was given slightly more AOE capacity to compensate. |
Besides having cooler weapons (Roman axe's FTW) and concept I really don't see why people ever roll an ax toon over WM.
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Actually, with high recharge you can get Crowd Control down to an amazing 3.5 to 4 s rech.|
Originally Posted by Colossal
It's hard for mobs to slowly stagger away when they're are being knocked down every 7-8 seconds.
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Most enemies stand up only to get KD'd right back down again.
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Originally Posted by Colossal
Not enough to notice? I notice all the time on my /BA tanker that I do not hit as many targets as I do on my /WM brute. You said yourself you're hitting 2-3 targets using cleave, with /WM's cone I regularly hit 4-5. Also, Battle Axe's big cone (180 degrees. Pendulum) hits 5 max target and Pendulum's (/WM's big cone, 180 degrees) hits 10. That's DOUBLE the targets and it's rare if I hit less than 7 (8-10 on average) guys when using it. /WM has actually a very noticeable advantage in AoE damage. And as stated before (and I thought it was obvious so I did not state it) Crowd Control does KB not disorient as it's secondary effect. It's hard for mobs to slowly stagger away when they're are being knocked down every 7-8 seconds.
Besides having cooler weapons (Roman axe's FTW) and concept I really don't see why people ever roll an ax toon over WM. |
So what I'm hearing is that battleax needs a buff?
Ok!
I'm game for that!
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Completely agree. I'd say just make BA's big cone (Pendulum) have the same max targets and that would be enough to close the gap for me. (As Cleave does more damage than WM's narrow cone so that should have a smaller arc anyway).
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Originally Posted by mauk2
So what I'm hearing is that battleax needs a buff?
Ok! I'm game for that! |
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Hell yeah. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
It doesn't get more Brutish than Stone Melee.
Screen shake so nice, I Incarnate leveled it twice. (Sm/Wp, Sm/Elec). You've got big stone hammers, you have Seismic Smash, you have screen shaking punches, you have a foot stomp that sends everything staggering at level 8, you have Seismic Smash, you have a jump in the air and hit the ground so hard everything falls over tier 9 attack. And you have Seismic Smash. It. Is. Glorious. (Also endurance intensive with any kind of recharge. Best paired with a secondary that can help with that.) |
Seismic Smash is almost like cheating, feels like an AS that holds a boss (and I play a lot of Stalkers), especially with the lower fury loss over time.
And My frail Stone/Elec could Tank at level 20 in a TF where the enemies were +3 (the leader was +3 and it was before super side kicking) JUST because of Fault.
She's 50 now and still a beast. That said, two things: she was my only toon that ever ran out of end with speed boost (I was about 25, only slotted with acc and endured SOs) and I only like Tremor's damage when I use BU and have Fury (not a problem nowadays). I'm glad I chose /elec because life got easy after Power Sink.
I don't want to have any toons with overlapping powersets, so this leaves only 3 available melee sets for me. Technically DB and KM are also options, but I couldn't stand the KM animations and the DB combos don't appeal to me.
So I'm looking on input on the 3 weapon sets in the subject. What are the pros/cons of each, as compared to each other? Axe seems like pretty much a clone of Broadsword. I already have a BS scrapper, so that's probably out. What about the other 2? Most likely I would be pairing it with dark armor...or maybe the new EA when it comes out.
Also, are any of these sets significantly better on scrappers or tanks (like how claws is clearly better on brutes than scrappers)?
My only brute is a mid-30's claws/WP, which I really enjoy. But claws is not very brutish....it's more scrappering or stalkerish due to its high speed. I'd like to make another, more "brutish" brute.