Best -res AT w/ build
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-27 15:50 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Effect does not stack from same caster.
|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
What about TA? I would put this set ahead of them all. Double stacked Disruption Field and the ability to self target "acid mortar" rounds is far superior for -resistance. Relying on a pet to target anything but a single standing AV with an 8' radius TAoE is terrible.
TA/Sonic is wicked. |
I bet it does. Double disruption arrow should stack - it's a pet. Acid arrow won't but disruption should.
Dark Miasma only gets -30 from tar patch, by the way.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
So it is. So is tarpatch lol.
|
Originally Posted by JayboH
I bet it does. Double disruption arrow should stack - it's a pet. Acid arrow won't but disruption should.
Dark Miasma only gets -30 from tar patch, by the way. |
Yeah that part was to an earlier post but TA still beats Dark Miasma even with double tar patch for -res.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
I would say Trap/Sonic Defender. I think acid mortar debuffs about 26% and you can easily stack two on an AV. And each sonic from Defender is 20%. That's some nasty -resist.
If you don't want defender/controller/corr, I have a suggestion for you. Soldiers!
-20% from Venom Grenade
-20% unresistable from Proc (soldier rifle or crab attacks)
-20% from Survailence
-20% from Shatter Armor
or
-16-20% from Arctic Breath?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Disruption is a pseudo pet, so 2x Disruption and 1x Acid is pretty standard of recharge builds. And like I said earlier, it's far better to be able to self target an 8' acid burst and run your Achilles Heel that way than to have to rely on pet AI.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Effect does not stack from same caster.
|
The only time I would take Traps over TA is when there is a lone AV.
Quote:
Yeah I addressed that and he replied.
|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Disruption is a pseudo pet, so 2x Disruption and 1x Acid is pretty standard of recharge builds.
|
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Acid mortar afaik has a chance to fire the proc every single time it fires. That is 10 times in 60 seconds. I dont worry about the archilles proc. |
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Disruption is a pseudo pet, so 2x Disruption and 1x Acid is pretty standard of recharge builds. And like I said earlier, it's far better to be able to self target an 8' acid burst and run your Achilles Heel that way than to have to rely on pet AI.
The only time I would take Traps over TA is when there is a lone AV. |
Also, the -resist in disruption arrow lasts for 5.25 seconds. Acid mortars -resist is 20 seconds.
I understand traps isnt for everyone, and thank god, otherwise it would be nerfed.
Quote:
IIRC, Disruption Arrow is applied by the pseudopet constantly for 31 seconds, with the last pulse extending the debuff for another 5.25 seconds, granting up to 36 seconds of debuff duration per cast. |
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Also, the -resist in disruption arrow lasts for 5.25 seconds. Acid mortars -resist is 20 seconds. |
Acid Mortar is a click attack initiated by a pet with 20 seconds of duration.
A high recharge TA build will have Disruption double stacked and the opportunity to have cast up to 3 Acid Arrows against high priority Targets after 20 seconds of Combat. Meanwhile, Traps will be waiting to summon a second Acid Mortar and hoping that the debuff was applied to hard targets such as bosses and AVs rather than LTs and Minions.
Traps kicks butt against a solo AV or GM though-- no comparison here. It's top notch for this aspect of the game. As for the rest of the game, TA is by far the best debuffer.
Quote:
Yep hence why I said without taking anything else into consideration. I'd still vote for the Traps/Sonic over the Demon/Sonic mostly due to pet AI and not being able to control it to where they use the -res debuff consistantly. The defender would pull ahead with the amount of -res debuffing it can do because you can control what attacks you use and the duration of the debuffs last longer than the MM's pets.
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Yeah, but that doesn't take into consideration the MM whip attacks and the Demons own attacks doing -Resist. So I'd think over 60% without taking thr -resist proc into consideration.
|
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. I got excited thinking more about the demon summoning/sonic damage resistance. I checked out number on the red tomax city of data. The lowest tier -resistances appear to be 15% and 20% resistance debuff. I don't want to question any canonical data, but the enchant and abysmal empowerment show -200% on the hellfire demonling and hellfire gargoyle upgraded powers, albeit for five seconds. Can this be confirmed? Those are astounding numbers, especially on cone attacks.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Wow you're right it does say that. I don't know if that's right or not though. Anyone know offhand? I may have to check ingame later with my demon/pain mm.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quote:
All the Gargoyle's debuffs are -20% and the demonling's are -15%.
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
I got excited thinking more about the demon summoning/sonic damage resistance. I checked out number on the red tomax city of data. The lowest tier -resistances appear to be 15% and 20% resistance debuff. I don't want to question any canonical data, but the enchant and abysmal empowerment show -200% on the hellfire demonling and hellfire gargoyle upgraded powers, albeit for five seconds. Can this be confirmed? Those are astounding numbers, especially on cone attacks.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Banes are the king of -resists easily.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
your forgetting surveillance in there which i think is another -20% resist so could stack -60%, and i think venom grenade stacks so with enough rech you could stack the debuff on that
|
That is if they are working alone or with other Bane at least.
Venom Grenade inflicts -20% resists but -40% resists to toxic damage which the Bane has three attacks for and with enough +recharge, can have a decent attack chain and is stackable.
Using two venom Grenades, a Bane can stack resists to -115%
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Banes are the king of -resists easily.
That is if they are working alone or with other Bane at least. Venom Grenade inflicts -20% resists but -40% resists to toxic damage which the Bane has three attacks for and with enough +recharge, can have a decent attack chain and is stackable. Using two venom Grenades, a Bane can stack resists to -115% |
Venom Grenades -Resist won't stack from the same caster.
Ok, for my bane spider, I am building venom grenade, pulverize, shatter and poison ray which red tomax shows all four having toxic damage. Venom grenade, surveillance, shatter armor (80% -resist toxic; 60% -resist non-toxic) -- does the achilles heal -resist proc have five chances to tick in poisonous ray with each tick of toxic damage or is the -defense a one time hit?
Back to demon numbers - on a single target (hypothetical)
Sonic disruption -22.5 (controller modifiers?)
Liquefy (Achilles heal proc) -20
Sonic siphon -22.5
Lash -9.375 (cast 1.8 sec, duration is six seconds)
Crack the Whip -9.375 (cast 3 sec cast time, duration is six seconds)
Hellfire demonling -15
Hellfire Gargoyle -20
So, I am not sure of the sonic modifiers, but these are the numbers I am showing for a total in the optimal situation: 118.75
Any takers on those numbers?
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
It would be one time afaik.
|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
does the achilles heal -resist proc have five chances to tick in poisonous ray with each tick of toxic damage or is the -defense a one time hit?
|
Quote:
You can't stack Venom Grenade from the same character. And also, Poisonous Ray take 2s to cast and then take another 2s to finish the damage. Personally, I find Venom + Ray combo too slow for my liking. |
Originally Posted by Giant2005
Banes are the king of -resists easily.
That is if they are working alone or with other Bane at least. Venom Grenade inflicts -20% resists but -40% resists to toxic damage which the Bane has three attacks for and with enough +recharge, can have a decent attack chain and is stackable. Using two venom Grenades, a Bane can stack resists to -115% |
I would much rather just stack -resist with Shatter Armor, Venom and Surveillance.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Quite true, you want that critical damage hit from stealth with or without the resistance debuff. I also took the 'gun' attacks on my modified spider. He likes to shoot things and bash things both, but the mace beam attacks are not so great.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
You can't stack Venom Grenade from the same character. And also, Poisonous Ray take 2s to cast and then take another 2s to finish the damage. Personally, I find Venom + Ray combo too slow for my liking.
I would much rather just stack -resist with Shatter Armor, Venom and Surveillance. |
edit: Surveillance / Venom grenade / poisonous ray / placate / shatter / shatter armor / pulverize seems like an awkward attack sequence.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
I've looked more into Traps/ and Storm/ and I never knew Storm/ could pull ahead in the -res debuffing department. Hypothetically Traps/ could manage -139.8% res debuff while Storm/ could get up to -150%. Of course both sets have to have perma hasten levels of recharge and not including any outside buffs. I probably could have gotten more -res out of both sets but I kept them both with softcapped defense.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Back to demon numbers - on a single target (hypothetical)
Sonic disruption -22.5 (controller modifiers?) Liquefy (Achilles heal proc) -20 Sonic siphon -22.5 Lash -9.375 (cast 1.8 sec, duration is six seconds) Crack the Whip -9.375 (cast 3 sec cast time, duration is six seconds) Hellfire demonling -15 Hellfire Gargoyle -20 So, I am not sure of the sonic modifiers, but these are the numbers I am showing for a total in the optimal situation: 118.75 Any takers on those numbers? |
Now as far as /Sonic goes(please correct me if I'm wrong) with a chain of Shout-Shriek-Scream-Shriek-repeat you could generate between 80% -res debuff constantly. Combine it with Storm/ and you can generate 230% -res debuff.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Boomie
I've looked more into Traps/ and Storm/ and I never knew Storm/ could pull ahead in the -res debuffing department. Hypothetically Traps/ could manage -139.8% res debuff while Storm/ could get up to -150%. Of course both sets have to have perma hasten levels of recharge and not including any outside buffs. I probably could have gotten more -res out of both sets but I kept them both with softcapped defense.
Now as far as /Sonic goes(please correct me if I'm wrong) with a chain of Shout-Shriek-Scream-Shriek-repeat you could generate between 80% -res debuff constantly. Combine it with Storm/ and you can generate 230% -res debuff. |
How exactly are you getting that much -res from Storm?
Quote:
Yeah... Freezing Rain is still a 15 second duration debuff if the enemy is in the patch when it expires, and Achilles Heel never stacks more than once on any foe, no matter how many sources are spamming that proc. It ain't happening.
|
Originally Posted by Vysires
How exactly are you getting that much -res from Storm?
|
Quote:
That bug does not always happen. Quite often the duration lasts just fine even when the enemy is in the patch when it expires. I think the bug happens less than half the time, but I have not done thorough testing.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Yeah... Freezing Rain is still a 15 second duration debuff if the enemy is in the patch when it expires
|
That said, defender Storm should be able to reasonably keep 70% from double stacked Freezing Rain with the occasional jumps to 90% from Achilles in Tornado and FR. I can't imagine where 150% is coming from. It almost looks to me like he added in the Sonic attacks and forgot he had and then added them a 2nd time. 70% + 80% = 150%.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Yeah I don't know why I was attempting to make the -res proc fire off more than once in Tornado and FR. Still you'd get good -res values like Strato said. Also I did some testing on rikti dummies on my Elec/Cold and it was showing Sleet stacking 3 times for a few seconds. I did not know it could.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
TA/Sonic is wicked.