Something's wrong with my Ice/Elec Tank


Caulderone

 

Posted

I've never been a big mids guy, but after having some problems with my ice tank getting hit more often than I'd have liked I plugged the build in to Mids. In the program it shows the defenses as what I think are soft-caped but when I look in the combat tab in-game, I see things like this:

"Bane Spider Commando MISSES! Mace Beam power had a 37.80% chance to hit, but rolled a 97.73."

or

"Bane Spider Scout MISSES! Poisonous Ray power had a 69.48% chance to hit, but rolled a 90.37."

I'll post the build below and hopefully you can help me out.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Canadian Bolt: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(3), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFtn-EndRdx(5), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(11), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(11), F'dSmite-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(7), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(9), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(9), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(15), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(17)
Level 6: Havoc Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 8: Jacobs Ladder -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-%Dam(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 10: Wet Ice -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Permafrost -- Aegis-ResDam(A)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Def(A), RedFtn-Def(19), GftotA-Def(19), Krma-Def/EndRdx(21), S'dpty-Def(21), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 20: Thunder Strike -- Sciroc-Dam%(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(37)
Level 22: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-Build%(23), GSFC-ToHit(29), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(31), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- RedFtn-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def(25), Krma-Def/EndRdx(25), GftotA-Def(27), S'dpty-Def(27), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod(45)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(37), Zephyr-ResKB(37)
Level 32: Weave -- RedFtn-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), Krma-Def/EndRdx(33), GftotA-Def(33), S'dpty-Def(34), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Hibernate -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Dmg(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- UbrkCons-Hold(A)
Level 44: Shiver -- P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(A)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(A)
Level 49: Icicles -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(17), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(40), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(42)



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Posted

Major problem I see: You are slotting sets that give POSITIONAL defense bonuses on a power set that gives you TYPED defense.

For the record, if you aren't sure the soft cap for defense is 45%.

I can't open the build from work, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of sets in ther that give you decenttyped defense bonuses, most of what I see is giving positional.

(yes, positional bonuses also give typed bonuses, but at half the amount)

Your 6 Red Fortunes are giving you 2.5% ranged defense, but only 1.25% Energy/Negative defense.

You WAY overslotted Combat Jumping. Your 6 slotting of that power is giving you less than a 2% improvement to your overall defense. Pull 4 of those slots out and use them somewhere they'd be more useful.

I can tell just by looking at your build that you are not soft capped. I think what you probably did that is giving you that perception is you set Energy Absorption to 10 targets and left it on when you calculated your defense. Since you only 2 slotted it for end recovery, I'm guessing you are not using it proactively to boost your defense in a fight.

You are getting out of your existing defense set bonuses:

2.5% E/N defense
roughly 2.75% F/C defense
about 3% S/L defense

That isn't enough to soft cap your defense without heavily relying on Energy Absorption to make up the difference, which it doesn't look like you're doing when you play the character (though you probably DID in Mid's and it made you think you were softcapped).

I'll try and take a look at the build when I get home from work today, if no one else beats me to it. I'm not the best with Ice tanks, but I know where most of the set bonuses you want for it can be found.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

ClawsandEffect got most of it. Never ideal to use positional bonuses to softcap typed defense unless you've already exhausted possibilities of getting typed defense bonuses. According to mids (unless it imported, wrong) you are softcapped without EA, but the sacrifices in slotting to get that defense isn't worth it.

Overall your build could use work on slotting and which sets to use. You can get a bit more hp/regen and a lot more recharge. I tossed a build together for you. It's based off of my own Ice/Ice/Soul's build, which I greatly recommend going red and getting Darkest Night.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Acc-I(43)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Dmg(5), Erad-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 12: Icicles -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(23)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(46)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam(36), RctvArm-EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(25), GftotA-Def(33)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Membr(27), HO:Membr(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A)
Level 35: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Build%(45)
Level 44: Shiver -- Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Permafrost -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45), Mrcl-Heal(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(9), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)



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SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Major problem I see: You are slotting sets that give POSITIONAL defense bonuses on a power set that gives you TYPED defense.

For the record, if you aren't sure the soft cap for defense is 45%.

I can't open the build from work, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of sets in ther that give you decenttyped defense bonuses, most of what I see is giving positional.

(yes, positional bonuses also give typed bonuses, but at half the amount)

Your 6 Red Fortunes are giving you 2.5% ranged defense, but only 1.25% Energy/Negative defense.

You WAY overslotted Combat Jumping. Your 6 slotting of that power is giving you less than a 2% improvement to your overall defense. Pull 4 of those slots out and use them somewhere they'd be more useful.

I can tell just by looking at your build that you are not soft capped. I think what you probably did that is giving you that perception is you set Energy Absorption to 10 targets and left it on when you calculated your defense. Since you only 2 slotted it for end recovery, I'm guessing you are not using it proactively to boost your defense in a fight.

You are getting out of your existing defense set bonuses:

2.5% E/N defense
roughly 2.75% F/C defense
about 3% S/L defense

That isn't enough to soft cap your defense without heavily relying on Energy Absorption to make up the difference, which it doesn't look like you're doing when you play the character (though you probably DID in Mid's and it made you think you were softcapped).

I'll try and take a look at the build when I get home from work today, if no one else beats me to it. I'm not the best with Ice tanks, but I know where most of the set bonuses you want for it can be found.
I looked at your Build and see that you do have S/S/E/N over SC but the problem I see is that your res is way low. You have hardly any res for your tank at all. The only res you have is cold, I also see that your attacks are really slow as well. I would of put your numa ++ in to health instead of hibernate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSK View Post
I looked at your Build and see that you do have S/S/E/N over SC but the problem I see is that your res is way low. You have hardly any res for your tank at all. The only res you have is cold
It's an Ice tank, the resistances are going to be low because the only source of any resistance other than Cold (and a piddly amount of Fire) is Tough. he really has no way to get resistance to anything else. At least not enough of it to actually make a difference.

Quote:
I would of put your numa ++ in to health instead of hibernate.
I hadn't noticed that. This is absolutely right.

By putting that piece in Hibernate, it means you only get the bonus when you are using Hibernate. The rest of the time it is doing nothing at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Poisonous ray is also pure toxic damage - ice armor does not provide any defense against it whatsoever. The only way to defend against it is ranged defense. In other words, don't even worry about that, attacks of that kind are vanishingly rare and don't hit very hard in the first place.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
It's an Ice tank, the resistances are going to be low because the only source of any resistance other than Cold (and a piddly amount of Fire) is Tough. he really has no way to get resistance to anything else. At least not enough of it to actually make a difference.



I hadn't noticed that. This is absolutely right.

By putting that piece in Hibernate, it means you only get the bonus when you are using Hibernate. The rest of the time it is doing nothing at all.
Sorry bout that I was addressing them why they might of been getting hit not, the first part about def to let ppl like you who had no access to mids when they are on at the time. Sorry for the confusion. So I was letting the person know they had low res which might be the reason you might be getting hit. Like said before it is hard to raise your resistance.


 

Posted

Wow. I'm pretty glad I asked! The biggest shame is that by trying to build on my own after about three years away from the game is that not only did I apparently make a huge mess of it but I wasted millions and millions of inf!

I'm really pleased to hear that the toon is salvageable, however.

As I mentioned I'm not a mids guy, but I'm still seeing my def capped for S/L/E/N. Aside from pure psi attacks, shouldn't I be more or less alright? Is it just that Aracnos, as was said already, has substantial to-hit buffs?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalAgent View Post
Wow. I'm pretty glad I asked! The biggest shame is that by trying to build on my own after about three years away from the game is that not only did I apparently make a huge mess of it but I wasted millions and millions of inf!

I'm really pleased to hear that the toon is salvageable, however.

As I mentioned I'm not a mids guy, but I'm still seeing my def capped for S/L/E/N. Aside from pure psi attacks, shouldn't I be more or less alright? Is it just that Aracnos, as was said already, has substantial to-hit buffs?
No the Cims also have a debuff when they hit, as well as longbow and others.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalAgent View Post
Wow. I'm pretty glad I asked! The biggest shame is that by trying to build on my own after about three years away from the game is that not only did I apparently make a huge mess of it but I wasted millions and millions of inf!

I'm really pleased to hear that the toon is salvageable, however.

As I mentioned I'm not a mids guy, but I'm still seeing my def capped for S/L/E/N. Aside from pure psi attacks, shouldn't I be more or less alright? Is it just that Aracnos, as was said already, has substantial to-hit buffs?
Yes you're still softcapped. I was just pointing out that you could do it differently in order to get more slots into other powers, like Ice Storm. Pure fire, psi, and toxic will be your biggest issues. If you can go redside and pick up DN it'll plug up that hole a bit. 35% -dmg when stacked with CE isn't anything to scoff at.


SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalAgent View Post
As I mentioned I'm not a mids guy, but I'm still seeing my def capped for S/L/E/N. Aside from pure psi attacks, shouldn't I be more or less alright? Is it just that Aracnos, as was said already, has substantial to-hit buffs?
Some other enemy groups have to-hit buffs also. Devouring Earth has Quartz emitters that give all enemies a huge to-hit buff. Some Nemesis guys like to cast Vengeance when one of them dies, which includes a to-hit component. Malta Gunslingers have a self-only to-hit buff. Some others here and there too.

Anyway, as far as Mids goes, make sure Energy Absorption is turned off in Mids when viewing totals, as this will throw off defense scores, etc. There is a little unmarked green button on the right side of all buffing powers, that will let you turn it off. While you are at it, turn off Build Up and Hibernate too (this won't affect your defense scores of course, but you may want to analyze other factors of your build, and thinking you have perma-Build Up may mess you up, heh).

That said, yes it looks like you are softcapped. You paid a steep price for it in terms of overall efficiency though.

Some random suggestions...
  • Stamina does not need to be six-slotted; most of what you have in there is going to waste. If you really like the set bonus from Efficacy Adaptor, move them all to Energy Absorption, which really does benefit from being six-slotted, and have two generic EndMod IOs in Stamina.
  • Similarly, Chilling Embrace does not need to be six-slotted, as it does not benefit very much from being enhanced. CE is fine with just the one default slot (with just End Redux, or Taunt Duration, or the damage proc from Pacing of the Turtle). That's not to say CE is a bad power; in fact it is a GREAT power. And what's really great is that it's a great power right out of the box, no slots needed.
  • Weave is six-slotted with defense-only or def/end enhancements from six different defense sets. That is a huge, huge waste for two reasons: one is the ED rule, which makes buffing any single attribute of one power impractical after a certain point is reached. For defense, that's about 50%, with some diminishing returns below 50%, and VERY sharply diminishing returns above 50%. In your case, the enhancements you have in Weave nominally increase its defense bonus by 123.5%(!), but ED cuts that down to 65.5% (and keep in mind, these are percents of a percent, and Weave's defense buff is in the single digits to begin with). The other reason it's wasteful is that a defense-only enhancement from a defense set boosts defense by the exact same amount as a generic defense IO of the same level; the benefit of sets is primarily in the set bonuses (the other benefit is boosting more than one thing at a time with a single enhancement, but obviously defense-only enhancements don't do that). With six enhancements from six different sets in one power, you get no set bonuses, and your power itself is not any better than it would be if you had just slotted in generic IOs. Recommendation on Weave: four-slot it with four enhancements from a single set whose bonuses you like-- you will lose only a tiny, tiny amount of def from Weave since you are so far over the ED cap right now, but you will gain set bonuses, and have slots to put into more important stuff.
  • Combat Jumping and Glacial Armor have the same problem as Weave. At most, CJ should be two-slotted, GA four-slotted.
  • Similarly, Frozen Armor does not need to be six-slotted, although in this case at least all of the slots are in a single set so it isn't quite as wasteful. Four-slot this power also.
  • Hibernate's healing amount does not need to be enhanced. It will heal you back to full health/end pretty quickly even completely unenhanced. And especially (as mentioned above), move the Numina's regen/recovery enhancement out of there. That enhancement is a little unusual in that you're only benefiting from it while Hibernate is active. Naturally, it would be much more helpful to you if slotted in Health, which is always active. Overall, Hibernate benefits very little from any kind of enhancement; more than the one default slot is pretty much a waste.
  • All these extra slots you have to spare from dropping the wasted slots can be moved into your attacks and Hoarfrost.
  • Speaking of attacks, slot Ice Storm as an attack (damage, recharge, and end) rather than with a slow enhancer. Since it doesn't need Acc (being auto-hit), three or four slots is fine. Build Up and damage-enhanced Ice Storm tears stuff up pretty good.
  • Also, if you are going to run Icicles, you'll want some End Reduction in it. That power is nice but very endurance-inefficient.
  • You have one purple in Block of Ice. It's not doing you much good there with no Accuracy in that power; you could sell it on Wentworth's to finance other changes.


 

Posted

Here you go, a quick and dirty build for you.

It almost hits Incarnate trial soft cap on it's own, and it does hit it when you use Energy Absorption.

End recovery is a little low, but when Energy Absorption is available every 27 seconds or so, it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.94
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal(33), Dct'dW-Rchg(34)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), HO:Nucle(45)
Level 2: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 4: Havoc Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- HO:Micro(A), HO:Micro(9), Empty(9)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(13), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(13), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), HO:Ribo(37)
Level 14: Jacobs Ladder -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(15), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(15), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), HO:Nucle(43)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(21), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(42), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(42)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), HO:Nucle(36)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(33), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Shiver -- ImpSwft-Dam%(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(45), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(31)
Level 4: Ninja Run


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Thanks so much for the help, everyone. I will start saving up the inf to fix this toon!

As an aside, is resistance considered to be superior or inferior to def? I used to love willpower as a set back when it was first released but haven't played it since returning to the game after a multi-year hiatus.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalAgent View Post
As an aside, is resistance considered to be superior or inferior to def?
You'll get some mixed feedback on that. I'll do my best to give you both sides.

On the cheap side of things, defense based sets are far superior. With some minor investment, either in extra powers or sets, it is possible to push defense to the "softcap" rather easily. The performance difference between 35% defense and 45% defense is phenomenal. In fact, the last 5% of defense does as much for you as the first 40%. Please read the guide on defense in my signature for a more thorough explanation.

When you get to more expensive builds, it becomes more beneficial to start with a heavy resistance set and layer on defense with set bonuses. The truth is that "layered mitigation is king," and the problem is that it is very hard to add resistance to a defense set, but much easier to add defense to a resistance set. When you also get the third layer of healing/regeneration, you become capable of amazing things. For that, check the Dark Armor Sucks link, also in my signature.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I'm also going to throw out there that Bane Spiders are likely to have tohit buffs, which result in the large chances to hit that the OP mentions.

Not to mention that both Tarantula Mistress lieutenants and Crab lieutenants/bosses can do some pretty hefty defense debuffing.

The primary Mistress debuff, if it hits, is around -30% defense. I've had a spawn with 2 hit me with an alpha and take me -40% defense before on a character with just shy of 20 defense at the time.

edit: Even at just over 50% DDR, the Ice tank is still going to feel the impact of those debuffs if some Arachnos spawns roll lucky on the alpha strike.

edit2: Mental Scramble is probably the T.Mistress power I'm thinking of, based on the wiki. It is Ranged/Psionic, so the Icer is likely to have lower defense to avoid getting debuffed by it, too.


 

Posted

Day three of me trying to post in this topic, with no effect yet. Maybe it will work this time... >.>

First off, I'll be the voice of difference, and say that for an Ice/Elec Tank, Lightning Clap is your friend. Under one condition. You *must* take Mu Mastery. Mu Mastery transforms Lightning Clap from a worthless power you would be better off NOT taking into an excellent mitigation tool. Mu Mastery is the only AoE Immobilize I could come up with that prevents knockback. Lightning Clap -Knockback = PBAoE Stun. WIN! Next, if you're going to take Icicles (which you should) take it early. Damage toggles are your friend. Slot it like I did in my build (below), and you'll be fine. Hibernate is a one-slot-wonder. Throw a basic Heal IO in, and you'll be fine. (I say that, because I've actually died from waiting too long to hit Hibernate while taking DoT) EA really should be six-slotted for Defense/Recharge. Side note that I meant to mention first... If you are intending to be a "team tank"... I'll be honest, you picked the wrong set. One thing I've learned in my time playing mine is that in all reality, Ice Armor just plain sucks for teaming. It basically relies on EA and CE for survival, and in the Incarnate age, spawns are dead long before you can get the real effects of either of those powers, unless you leave a small trail of aggro behind you as you rush to get to the next mob before the next person with Judgement up obliterates it. That being said... If you are soloing, it's nigh invulnerable. Seriously. EA, CE, Hibernate, and extra mitigation in stun/KB from Electric Melee, and you will have a hard time dying. Throw the Alpha slot on top of that, and you're doing even better.

I can't really say a whole lot more that hasn't already been covered, so... Here's the build I'm using. You may notice that I built for Fire Defense/Resistance, along with Recharge/MaxHP. This fills the main gap in Ice (outside of Psi, but I basically ignore Psi on all of my tanks), along with giving you the two most important attributes for Ice Armor. More EA, and more HP. Plus, more Lightning Clap. ^.^

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(3), GftotA-Run+(9), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(5)
Level 4: Havoc Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Permafrost -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(9), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(25), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(33), Mocking-Rchg(39)
Level 12: Icicles -- M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(A), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 14: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(15)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(17), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(17), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(19), GftotA-Run+(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 20: Jacobs Ladder -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(21), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(21), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(25), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(27), GftotA-Def/Rchg(27), GftotA-Run+(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Weave -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(31), GftotA-Run+(31)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A)
Level 35: Lightning Clap -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(36), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(37)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(46), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(42), GftotA-Run+(45)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- TotHntr-Acc/Rchg(A), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(45), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Static Discharge -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Spiritual Partial Radial Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), RgnTis-Regen+(7)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod(7)
Level 4: Ninja Run



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scirion View Post
Day three of me trying to post in this topic, with no effect yet. Maybe it will work this time... >.>

First off, I'll be the voice of difference, and say that for an Ice/Elec Tank, Lightning Clap is your friend. Under one condition. You *must* take Mu Mastery. Mu Mastery transforms Lightning Clap from a worthless power you would be better off NOT taking into an excellent mitigation tool. Mu Mastery is the only AoE Immobilize I could come up with that prevents knockback. Lightning Clap -Knockback = PBAoE Stun. WIN! Next, if you're going to take Icicles (which you should) take it early. Damage toggles are your friend. Slot it like I did in my build (below), and you'll be fine. Hibernate is a one-slot-wonder. Throw a basic Heal IO in, and you'll be fine. (I say that, because I've actually died from waiting too long to hit Hibernate while taking DoT) EA really should be six-slotted for Defense/Recharge. Side note that I meant to mention first... If you are intending to be a "team tank"... I'll be honest, you picked the wrong set. One thing I've learned in my time playing mine is that in all reality, Ice Armor just plain sucks for teaming. It basically relies on EA and CE for survival, and in the Incarnate age, spawns are dead long before you can get the real effects of either of those powers, unless you leave a small trail of aggro behind you as you rush to get to the next mob before the next person with Judgement up obliterates it. That being said... If you are soloing, it's nigh invulnerable. Seriously. EA, CE, Hibernate, and extra mitigation in stun/KB from Electric Melee, and you will have a hard time dying. Throw the Alpha slot on top of that, and you're doing even better.

I can't really say a whole lot more that hasn't already been covered, so... Here's the build I'm using. You may notice that I built for Fire Defense/Resistance, along with Recharge/MaxHP. This fills the main gap in Ice (outside of Psi, but I basically ignore Psi on all of my tanks), along with giving you the two most important attributes for Ice Armor. More EA, and more HP. Plus, more Lightning Clap. ^.^
Ice Armor is far from being a horrible team tank. Saying that it 'just plain sucks' means you're probably doing it wrong. I play lead tank on my Icer for teams all the time and have tanked all of the content in the game (except a hami raid) successfully. Some stuff needed a couple tries or creativity, admittedly.

EA needs a balance of def/rech and endmod to get the most out of it. Sure without endmod, EA is still great - when surrounded my mobs. Once you start tanking fewer hard targets you'll suffer greatly from the lack of net endurace you'll get (+end - endcost of using it).

Before you can softcap it, Ice does rely on EA to hit the softcap. Relying on CE for survival, is incorrect. CE is the taunt aura so it is necessary to use it if you want to keep aggro (and it does this oh so well). It just gives you the side benefits of slow, -rech, and -dmg to help with your survival - not the other way around.

Ice thrives off herding and being at the aggro cap constantly. Even in the iTrials you should be the first into the middle of a spawn and immediately fire off EA to get the defense and then launch any AoE attacks you have. Your goal is to keep the baddies from shooting your team and if you do that without getting the 'full effects' of EA and CE, then you still fulfilled that goal.

Side note - for all of that fire resist you slotted for you could have gotten even more hp/regen/rech into the build. This would have been more beneficial to you since your hoarfrost is underslotted.


SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scirion View Post
Ice Armor just plain sucks for teaming. It basically relies on EA and CE for survival, and in the Incarnate age, spawns are dead long before you can get the real effects of either of those powers, unless you leave a small trail of aggro behind you as you rush to get to the next mob before the next person with Judgement up obliterates it.
Rushing off to the next group of mobs while people are still AE'ing the current group is what most PUGs will expect of a Tanker. If you don't do it, then the Scrapper or Blaster or whoever will pick up your slack. Ice Armor's mobility and aggro-gaining capabilities help with keeping the team moving forward aggressively.

Really, Ice Armor has always been great for teaming. For nearly all of the game's content you can get by with just the softcapped Defense, slows, a self-heal, and a boatload of HPs if you know what you're doing. The only thing that has changed in the "Incarnate age" is that all one-group content is now even more laughably trivial for a group of level 50s than it was before, with or without a Tanker.

Sure, Trials are a bit more challenging, but they are supposed to be challenging. And Ice Tankers can tank that content too.


 

Posted

I'm probably missing something, but why a Ribo Hami in Icicles? I can't see what Resistance effects are going to benefit from enhancement, and if nothing does, wouldn't a generic End Redux 50 work better for less inf?

And, not to nit-pick, since you did say it's a quick and dirty build, but the Oblit in Lightning Rod is probably going to be a lot more expensive than using one of the Taunt sets Acc/Recharge IOs to achieve the same results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Here you go, a quick and dirty build for you.

It almost hits Incarnate trial soft cap on it's own, and it does hit it when you use Energy Absorption.

End recovery is a little low, but when Energy Absorption is available every 27 seconds or so, it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.94
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal(33), Dct'dW-Rchg(34)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), HO:Nucle(45)
Level 2: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 4: Havoc Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- HO:Micro(A), HO:Micro(9), Empty(9)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(13), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(13), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), HO:Ribo(37)
Level 14: Jacobs Ladder -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(15), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(15), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Rchg(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), HO:Nucle(43)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(21), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(42), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(42)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), HO:Nucle(36)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(33), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Shiver -- ImpSwft-Dam%(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(45), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(31)
Level 4: Ninja Run