Robotics/Traps


Deacon_NA

 

Posted

If I could have your attention a short moment, I've read many guides (seems like most are very outdated) and played my MM in the 20's twice, and I'm still having a hard time setting down to a full build. I've played in Mids Villains Designer and came up with the following :

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Charge Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Stealth -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Aid Other -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Aid Self -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Trip Mine -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Provoke -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Electric Shackles -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Repair -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Photon Grenade -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Invisibility -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)

I took one attack, so I can be doing something. I took Maneuver, Assault & Tactic, because I was told it benefit MM and their pets a lot. I'm not sure I want invisibility nor photon grenade, but to be honest, I didnt know what to take. Electric Shackles seems like a godsend with Assault Bot evil AoE I keep hearing about.

Any advice/suggestion you can offer?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitoh View Post
I took one attack, so I can be doing something. I took Maneuver, Assault & Tactic, because I was told it benefit MM and their pets a lot. I'm not sure I want invisibility nor photon grenade, but to be honest, I didnt know what to take. Electric Shackles seems like a godsend with Assault Bot evil AoE I keep hearing about.

Any advice/suggestion you can offer?
You might be confusing Electric Shackles (single-target hold) with Electrifying Fences (AoE immobilize with knockback prevention).



Other powers you might want to look at are a resistance shield from your APP (the resistance is applied before bodyguard mode, magnifying its effect), Caltrops (good for keeping enemies away from an area), and Hasten (so you can set your traps faster). Some people like to take Tough because when stacked with bodyguard mode and an APP shield, you get higher smashing/lethal resistance than any tank, but I've found that just the APP shield is enough for almost everything.


I'm not sure how useful taking all of Repair, Aid Other, and Triage Beacon would be: if you're tankerminding, your bots aren't taking very much damage unless you wander within range of something with Footstomp. I don't expect Aid Self to be very useful, either: I didn't take it, and the only time I make much use of green inspirations is when I'm running from something that just one-shotted my bots -- not a situation where I could stop and use Aid Self.


 

Posted

IO's yes or no ?

Nutshell
Traps = Soft Positional Defense Cap
Defense Cap+Provoke= Tankermind build
Tankermind build allows for 4/8 setting soloing.

But you will eventually need IOs to accomplish this successfully.

Build wise this forum is full of tankermind builds even going back a few pages will pull up builds. But do a search for traps in this forum and you will find what you need.

Trap is Traps is Traps. Meaning you can port that Traps build over to any Arch Type that can use traps and with minor tweaking have a defense cap toon in that arch type as well.

Here is the difference with Tankerminds though. One school of thought is you use the Protector bot pet to bubble you to obtain defense cap. And another which is get defense cap without the need of the pets, so with the pet bubble you will be at 50% defense wise. Personally I come from the defense cap without pets camp, but to each their own.

AOE wise it goes 2 ways.
Solo it does not matter because all mobs come back to you eventually. So worrying or having some sort of issue of KB really isn't an issue unless your so uptight and everything has to be perfect.

Team wise stuff dies so fast now that it really does not matter. Pretty much everyone is using some judgement attack as an opener. Again I think yet another moot point.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Thank you very much for the very helpfull comments, they helped me set my mind straight on tankerminding. I've dropped much healing and took tough/weave instead, took hasten/SS instead of stealth, and corrected Electric Shackles to Elecrifying Fences.

Since I went with MU Master instead of Mace, I had to take Charged armor instead of scorpion shield. Which lead to a question, since I'm already running tough and have various +def from my pets/FFG, isnt Charged armor much better since it's +Res instead of +Def ?

This is my corrected buid :

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Provoke -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Trip Mine -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Charged Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Electrifying Fences -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)


 

Posted

Something like the following that I threw together quickly and will need some adjustment:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(A), SvgnRt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SvgnRt-Acc/EndRdx(3), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SvgnRt-Acc(5), SvgnRt-PetResDam(7)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 2: Caltrops -- P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(11), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(11), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), ShldBrk-%Dam(36)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(13), HO:Nucle(13), HO:Nucle(15), HO:Nucle(15)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 18: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Aegis-ResDam(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(21), GA-3defTpProc(21), S'fstPrt-ResKB(34)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(43), Lock-Rchg/Hold(45), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), Lock-%Hold(46)
Level 22: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFtn-Def(50), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(A), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(27), EdctM'r-Acc/EndRdx(27), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), EdctM'r-Dmg(33), EdctM'r-PetDef(33)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(29), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(29), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SipInsght-%ToHit(31)
Level 30: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Trip Mine -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(39)
Level 38: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 41: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Aegis-ResDam(48)
Level 47: Pulse Rifle Blast -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), EndMod-I(17), P'Shift-End%(46)



Code:
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Here is the difference with Tankerminds though. One school of thought is you use the Protector bot pet to bubble you to obtain defense cap. And another which is get defense cap without the need of the pets, so with the pet bubble you will be at 50% defense wise. Personally I come from the defense cap without pets camp, but to each their own.
Slotted Protector Bots give you about 11% defense to all, which is a lot of IO sets that could be giving you other benefits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitoh View Post
Since I went with MU Master instead of Mace, I had to take Charged armor instead of scorpion shield. Which lead to a question, since I'm already running tough and have various +def from my pets/FFG, isnt Charged armor much better since it's +Res instead of +Def ?
Charged Armor is much better than Scorpion Shield, since you've already got plenty of defense. With the powers you've picked and the Protector Bots shielding you, you'll be at 40.5% defense with just a Steadfast Protection 3% IO. Scorpion Shield would put you far beyond the softcap for Smashing/Lethal/Energy, wasting most of its power, where Charged Armor will stack nicely with Tough, without putting you over any caps.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie V View Post
Slotted Protector Bots give you about 11% defense to all, which is a lot of IO sets that could be giving you other benefits.
When your soloing 4/8 setting how much more of a benefit do I need. There does come a point where it just is overkill.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie V View Post
Slotted Protector Bots give you about 11% defense to all, which is a lot of IO sets that could be giving you other benefits.




Charged Armor is much better than Scorpion Shield, since you've already got plenty of defense. With the powers you've picked and the Protector Bots shielding you, you'll be at 40.5% defense with just a Steadfast Protection 3% IO. Scorpion Shield would put you far beyond the softcap for Smashing/Lethal/Energy, wasting most of its power, where Charged Armor will stack nicely with Tough, without putting you over any caps.
Wonderfull, I finally found a "working" tankermind build, that suit my need. I might just respec out of Pulse Rifle Burst for Caltrop later, but at the moment, I appreciate being part of the fight, finishing off weak opponents instead of having my horde of pets all attack him at once.

Again, thank you very much for the helpfull comment. Even though, I probably could have found such information by reading older build, it make me feel better that you looked at my build and posted your comment/critics about it, directly. So again, thank you.


 

Posted

Just keep in mind, Tankerminding is pretty much strictly a soloing thing. It's just way too difficult to even pretend to do it in teams. Not that the Mastermind can't tank, they survive better than most Tankers do. It's just a simple matter of aggro.

Even for soloing purposes, it's not terribly /easy/. The presence pool is just that bad ;P

But yeah, soloing +4/x8 is hardly difficult as Bots/Traps. Incarnate Powers made it a joke, honestly. Although you'll still have twitchy moments, it comes with the RNG.

Ultimately, it's extremely easy to soft-cap, with out the Prot Bots, as noted by plainguy. My personal build manages this, although I do personally hate Force Field Generator at times for being a slow jerk. Thusly, as noted in a previous post, Charged Armor is where it's at.

Although it's just added on top. You'll never die before you pets unless you really bombed your positioning. Blah blah blah basic knowledge blah.

Have fun with it, so on and so forth.


Edit: Just keep in mind, for Tankerminding, AoE's are going to be important. I strongly suggest picking up both Electrifying Fences and Photon Grenade. Since the /entire/ point of Tankerminding is an AoE build, really. Also? Take. Caltrops. Caltrops is the best power in the game, period.

I'd say the following powers are what you want on a Tankermind:

Photon Grenade (Easiest way to get this is to not take Trip Mine. Trip Mine is just too much of a situational power, and Photon Grenade can do some hysterical things), Electrifying Fences (Mu Mastery), Provoke (Obviously), Caltrops.

I wouldn't personally bother with a single target attack, and instead just lob Web Grenades. Damage is a part of threat, but debuffs piss mobs off quite nicely too.


 

Posted

It's true that I noticed the decreasing usefulness of Pulse Rifle Burst. I'll probably respec it to Caltrops like you suggest, although... I've read a lot of guides and some people say to just skip Photon Grenade, and you're telling me to trade Trip Mine (which seems to be godly damage) for Photon Grenade. I guess I'll have to test both and see which I prefer, I just like the idea of planting a Trip Mine on the foot of a mob with stealth (slotted in Super speed), but like you said, it might be "situational".


 

Posted

2 laid caltrop patches + poison trap + seeker are more then enough tanking for me. some web area grenades/cocoons if it isn't enough on av/gm. more slows, less recharge.
seriously, provoke and personal attacks are wasted potential.
don't endure agro, prevent it.

and scorpion shield is mandatory, no discussion. take anything else and slap yourself.


 

Posted

Scorpion Shield isn't mandatory. Not having Electrifying Fences is /horrible/.

Additionally, it is retarded-easy for a /Traps to soft cap with out Scorpion Shield, allowing them to get 70% S/L Resistance with Charged Shield. Amazing, yes? If I can have 45% in my defenses prior to the Prot Bots, why would I want Scorpion Shield?

And, yes. I have high +HP and +Recharge.

As for Photon Grenade, it's useful due to having a stacking stun with the Prot Bots, but most important the damage + stun is a good aggro boost. Also, it can set off Interface. Caltrops + Fences + Grenade = A lot more damage than you'd think.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitoh View Post
It's true that I noticed the decreasing usefulness of Pulse Rifle Burst. I'll probably respec it to Caltrops like you suggest, although... I've read a lot of guides and some people say to just skip Photon Grenade, and you're telling me to trade Trip Mine (which seems to be godly damage) for Photon Grenade. I guess I'll have to test both and see which I prefer, I just like the idea of planting a Trip Mine on the foot of a mob with stealth (slotted in Super speed), but like you said, it might be "situational".
I find that using Pulse Rifle burst in the iTrials seemed to help my "participation effort/reward" ratio to improve instead of just getting all commons all the time or even just threads.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
When your soloing 4/8 setting how much more of a benefit do I need. There does come a point where it just is overkill.
As long as you're facing opponents of +5 or lower, the softcap is 45%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
I find that using Pulse Rifle burst in the iTrials seemed to help my "participation effort/reward" ratio to improve instead of just getting all commons all the time or even just threads.
I've found that absolutely nothing has any measurable effect on my "particpation score": I got my first VR on a run where I was seeing if I could get the "you didn't participate" reward while still contributing to the team, and the second on a run where I was going all-out to participate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
Scorpion Shield isn't mandatory. Not having Electrifying Fences is /horrible/.
naa, shield is mandatory. simply as it is.
fences have nothing really great in them, their knockback protection is very short on duration, damage is negligible. if you need ae immobilization then again area web grenade is much better.
but not having scorpion shield means that every time shield drone is a step behind or hanging on a corner you will get *****.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
Additionally, it is retarded-easy for a /Traps to soft cap with out Scorpion Shield, allowing them to get 70% S/L Resistance with Charged Shield. Amazing, yes? If I can have 45% in my defenses prior to the Prot Bots, why would I want Scorpion Shield?
a) because shield drone isn't 100% of time around you.
b) several mobs debuff your defense and since you don't have debuff resistance then the only way is to have bigger number.

i can tank the most of itf just by myself and i am happy with it.
as i had charged armor+fences it wasn't safe at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
As for Photon Grenade, it's useful due to having a stacking stun with the Prot Bots, but most important the damage + stun is a good aggro boost. Also, it can set off Interface. Caltrops + Fences + Grenade = A lot more damage than you'd think.
stun? hahaha
never looked on to web cocoon? never read its numbers?
what is better on lgtf: stupid stun, that gives you nothing good except funny animation or long time ranged hold?
i'd rather stack holds and help others on fighting green bubbles than just standing around doing nothing.

your damage is a pity in compare to your bot, boost their damage with assault, you'll be better off if its damage you look after.
yeah, and instead of wasting slots on useless personal attacks put some damage procs on caltrops and mortar and see big numbers floating.

and again, its not about personal agro, its about preventing and canceling agro. its not about personal damage, its about setting traps. you ain't blaster, never try to be one. you are controller, lay traps, tackle stuff and so on and let the bot do the rest.


 

Posted

Scorp Shield certainly isn't mandatory as long as Frozen Armor exists. I respecced my bot/trap out of Scorp to Chill Mastery and haven't looked back. Chill Mastery (or whatever it's called) simply has too many fantastic tools available, most notably Hoarfrost and Hibernate (a great 1-slot wonder).


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Scorp shield is absolutely not necessary in this age of widespread +Def IOs, along with Inherant fitness, yOu should have more then enough space to soft cap without scorp shield. Prot. Bot bubbles and FFG are already more then half way (+26% Def to be exact, slotted) to the softcap.

In addition, resistance shields work amazingly with B-G mod, resistance is applied BEFORE B-G mode which in turn is then further reduced by it and also will deuce the amount of damage your pets take as well.

PS. In my honest opinion, if you are going to build to the softcap without Prot Bot bubbles, you mine as well go thugs for the extra damage unless it's part of a concept. (the pets have the same amount of def. and it stacks with other thug MMs)


"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton

-Lord Azazel

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA View Post
Chill Mastery (or whatever it's called) simply has too many fantastic tools available, most notably Hoarfrost and Hibernate (a great 1-slot wonder).
as a def shield it can be used too. but the rest of the powers are complete waste.
a single target slow, ae sleep - total waste.
selfheal for a toon with about 60% def selfbuffed? if its not a waste i dont know what it is. better of take medicine pool, at least you can heal your bots.
hibernate? again, a 60% should not be scratched at all. AVs and GMs bite off their teeth on me by default. more then a waste of power slot.
really, its not a tip, its a mislead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos View Post
Scorp shield is absolutely not necessary in this age of widespread +Def IOs,
you never play solo, do you? you never done itf without healers and tanks? well, i did and was actual tank whole the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos View Post
Prot. Bot bubbles
... wear off and prot bots are busy firing instead of rebuffing or has been stomped in to smithereens. you cannot rely on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos View Post
and FFG are already more then half way (+26% Def to be exact, slotted) to the softcap.
... that can be blocked by team members, corners, enemies, lag, can be killed by AoE and so on... you cannot rely on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos View Post
In addition, resistance shields work amazingly with B-G mod, resistance is applied BEFORE B-G mode which in turn is then further reduced by it and also will deuce the amount of damage your pets take as well.
if you not gonna be hit at all you don't have to worry about b-g at all.
aggressive stance by default. period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos View Post
PS. In my honest opinion, if you are going to build to the softcap without Prot Bot bubbles, you mine as well go thugs for the extra damage unless it's part of a concept. (the pets have the same amount of def. and it stacks with other thug MMs)
thats only point i would agree on. thug/traps are powerhouse par excellence. however thugs buff only work for thugs themselves and for the mm only. not for the team or other pets. it has been nerved some times ago.