The Proliferation Scorecard (and what's left to do)
By
Alef_infinity,
Posted on: 2011-07-07 16:21 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I love you Zombie Man, I LOVE YOOOOU!
I support this post, and pray we will someday see this.
I love all the ideas for the summons, it would expand Masterminds out greatly.
I also love the idea of electric buff, I've been saying it for years now, how cool it would be.
Then you bought up Energy control and energy buff, and I was like "......Yes... Make this happen, fund this, bribe senators."
Radiation Assault could be done - Dominators don't NEED a matching primary (Blasters don't have matching secondaries for Radiation, Sonic, or Archery). Simply take tiers 1-7 from Radiation Blast and two of the melee attacks wielded by the Shivan enemies.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Pst....
<.<
>.>
Radiation Armor and Radiation Melee.....
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Pst....
<.< >.> Radiation Armor and Radiation Melee..... |
What about stalker defense?
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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What do you mean "Stalker Defense?"
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
What about stalker defense?
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Added Radiation to Assault and Support under Proliferation.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Radiation Assault could be done - Dominators don't NEED a matching primary (Blasters don't have matching secondaries for Radiation, Sonic, or Archery). Simply take tiers 1-7 from Radiation Blast and two of the melee attacks wielded by the Shivan enemies.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Radiation Armor and Radiation Melee.....
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
What about stalker defense?
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Originally Posted by venombeyond82
What do you mean "Stalker Defense?"
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I don't know if I'd call Dominator and Blaster Secondaries port. But rather new sets.
That said, obviously Devs hate melee 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
What about stalker defense?
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Originally Posted by venombeyond82
What do you mean "Stalker Defense?"
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Because it's true.
Where to now?
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Well, Dark Manipulation Support is getting Dark cobbled together from existing Dark sets, so, the devs see it as such.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't know if I'd call Dominator and Blaster Secondaries port. But rather new sets.
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Basically, if they don't have to come up with new animations but can scrounge them from elsewhere, it's a proliferation. Once they get the animators involved, it's "new".
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I think it's more once they have to animate more than 2 or 3 new powers it becomes new.
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Well, they did call Earth Assault Proliferation with just what, 1 new animation? So I guess that works.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Well, Dark Manipulation Support is getting Dark cobbled together from existing Dark sets, so, the devs see it as such.
Basically, if they don't have to come up with new animations but can scrounge them from elsewhere, it's a proliferation. Once they get the animators involved, it's "new". |
Still, I don't think I'd call them proliferations just yet. But maybe that's because I hope to see new animations with those sets.
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The BrandX Collection
Kinda wish Sonic would be added to concepts. I could totally see Sonic Armor and Melee/weapons.
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Proliferate crab backpacks for all archetypes as either primary or secondary, and I'd be all over that.
/because it'd be fun to have a 'troller with a backpack, right? 
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I need a martial arts secondary for blasters.
I want martial arts for brute.
Im not sure putting Invulnerability on a Stalker is a good idea, or Stone Armour.
For one thing, Stalkers do insane amounts of damage as is in a burst, put invulnerability on them, and you get the potential to have a vicious little one-shotting teambuster. One of the game play factors of a Stalker is hit and run tactics. Invulnerability would mean pretty much, running isn't required, and also, stone armour? Not much running going to be going on there. LMAO
Heh, a Granite Stalker.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Stone Armor would work terribly for Stalkers due to Granite's debuffs, I think. Not going to comment on the Invulnerability bit--I simply don't understand the assumptions you're making about that. What exactly are you talking about? PvP? That's in a broken state right now anyway.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Stalkers are squishy characters who engage in melee attacks and then peel out when the going gets tough, hit and run is the main game of a stalker, element of surpise. You give a stalker invulnerability, and after they've killed the big guy with their assassin strike they should be able to plow through the rest relatively easy thanks to the massive resistances invulnerability offers to melee damage, combined with the damage even standard stalker attacks are capable of inflicting. Suddenly an invulnerable stalker has the ability to become a killing machine... with impunity. I'm just afeared it might overpower them a tad in PvE
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Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Stone Armor would work terribly for Stalkers due to Granite's debuffs, I think. Not going to comment on the Invulnerability bit--I simply don't understand the assumptions you're making about that. What exactly are you talking about? PvP? That's in a broken state right now anyway.
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Okay...you know Invul doesn't make you literally invulnerable, right?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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...It's clear you don't really understand Stalkers, or how Invul compares to other armor sets. True, massive alphas are the name of the game for Stalkers, but after that, staying in and scrapping the spawn to death is actually the best choice overall. Running to get hide status back is actually more likely to get you killed solo, and on teams it really hampers your damage.|
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch
Stalkers are squishy characters who engage in melee attacks and then peel out when the going gets tough, hit and run is the main game of a stalker, element of surpise. You give a stalker invulnerability, and after they've killed the big guy with their assassin strike they should be able to plow through the rest relatively easy thanks to the massive resistances invulnerability offers to melee damage, combined with the damage even standard stalker attacks are capable of inflicting. Suddenly an invulnerable stalker has the ability to become a killing machine... with impunity. I'm just afeared it might overpower them a tad in PvE
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Also, stalker damage isn't really all that. They're more comparable with scrappers in the long run... with less AoE for many of their sets and less survivability overall.
Yes, Invul can be tough, but it isn't really that, heh, invulnerable compared to the other armor sets. It won't suddenly make Stalkers that much tougher than they were before.
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I understand how invul compares to other armour sets perfectly well. Perhaps not as well on things that don't hardcap at 90% though I'll grant you, which maybe where my concern stems from. |
Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
...It's clear you don't really understand Stalkers, or how Invul compares to other armor sets. True, massive alphas are the name of the game for Stalkers, but after that, staying in and scrapping the spawn to death is actually the best choice overall. Running to get hide status back is actually more likely to get you killed solo, and on teams it really hampers your damage.
Also, stalker damage isn't really all that. They're more comparable with scrappers in the long run... with less AoE for many of their sets and less survivability overall. Yes, Invul can be tough, but it isn't really that, heh, invulnerable compared to the other armor sets. It won't suddenly make Stalkers that much tougher than they were before. |
But I disagree, in theory at least, about Invul not making them tougher as an AT. As you'll be in point blank range once you strike, and given how invul can reduce melee damage taken better than any other armor set, I do believe that would be enough to remove a stalker from squishdom even without IO sets. Especially as most melee damage is smashing and lethal in the game and, once you factor in Invul's defences of Tough Hide and Invincibility, you're effectively making a squishy character extremely tough and then, there is dull pain's massive hp boost on top of all that. When you factor in physical resistance that exceeds everything else, defences to everything bar psychics, the ability radically boost your HP for several moments, and you really think an invulnerable stalker wouldn't be all that once they've practically one shotted the boss?
I have to say, Im not convinced to the contrary of my thoughts.
Here is a spreadsheet of powersets as they will be in Issue 21.
To read the sheet, go by columns. Take for example the Melee Powersets in the first column. There are 18 different Melee Powersets. Tankers and Scrappers have access to 13 of them; Stalkers, 11; and Brutes 14.
Still going down, you see that Scrapper and Brutes have access to Katana. Tankers only have access to Ice Melee. And so on.
Yellow highlights are the I21 Proliferation 3.0 Powersets. The salmon highlights are the new powersets in I21.
So, what's left to proliferate?
Proliferation of Existing Sets
Scrapper Melee:
Scrapper Defense:
Tanker Melee:
Tanker Defense:
Brute Melee:
Brute Defense:
Stalker Melee:
Stalker Defense:
Mastermind Summons:
Mastermind Buff:
Controller Control:
Controller Buff:
Defender Ranged:
Defender Buff:
Corruptor Ranged:
Corruptor Buff:
Blaster Ranged:
Blaster Support:
Dominator Control:
Dominator Assault:
Proliferation of Concepts
If you take a look as this spreadsheet, it shows what type of powers, conceptually, have been proliferated into different powerset categories.
So, take a look, for example, at Fire in the first row. Fire (or 'Thermal') is represented in every powerset category. So that means you can have a Fire/Fire Anything AT, right? Not so fast. It won't be until Issue 21 that Fire Blast will be proliferated to Defenders. So, until then, you can't have a Fire/Thermal Defender.
But once everything is proliferated to every set, then that means you can have a PowerTypeX/PowerTypeX Anything AT, right? Not so fast. Even if all powersets are proliferated to all ATs, there are still some gaps in proliferating the Conceptual Power Type to every Powerset Category. So, for example, there is no Dark Control nor Dark Assault. This means you can't have a Dark/Dark Controller or Dominator.
Now, some concepts just don't make sense to be in every Powerset Category. There will be no War Mace Control Set or Dual Pistols Melee (and just because you can conceive of it cartoonishly happening, doesn't mean it's justifiable).
But the gaps in the spreadsheet show where future *new* powersets can go by extending the concepts of some Powerset Categories to other Categories. The obvious gaps are:
Electricity:
Energy:
Radiation:
Dark:
Archery:
Spines:
Storm:
Plant:
Illusion:
Time:
Gravity:
Stone/Earth:
Mechanical:
Shields:
Blasting Melee Weapon:
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