DP/what?

Hi guys, coming from a long hiatus. I just experienced DP on a free weekend and having just purchased GR (I know, maybe bad move since CoH is giving access to all subscription players but I didn't feel like waiting) I never played a DP blaster. Well I actually never played a Blaster past 30.

So what would you recommend on a secondary? I was thinking about DP/Ice. But DP seems to like a bit of melee right? What do you recommend and what are the usually skippable powers in DP?

Thanks a ton!

I made a dp/Ice on test and took it most of the way to 30 before a lvl bump. It was underwhelming for me due to the low mag sleep tier 9 that deals no damage and the other kind-of low damaging attacks. I’ve since played a dp/elect/mace to incarnate and find it fun. The damage aura and high damage melee attack chain drew me to it.

Other combinations I would like would be dp/fire/mace and dp/mm/mace for more melee goodness. /energy would be good if I was looking to try to stay mostly at range. However, DP has a power that likes melee, has a few longish animation powers, and blaster secondaries usually have something you’d want to use in melee.

If you haven’t heard yet, burn has no fear in it now. Blazing aura+hotfeet+burn+HoB +fire sword circle+combustion+Bullet Rain+executioner shot/piercing rounds the boss…. Next spawn +Consume Some people don’t realize how much mitigation hotfeet can be. Most things will slowly squirm within it. Incarnate levels of endurance reduction and +recovery make this build pretty beastly.

EDIT: Skippable in DP to me are: the empty clips cone b/c I don’t like the I/O sets for cones, suppressive fire (it can be useful, but it can also not be worth the effort depending on the build- I took it just for the I/Os and for stackable holds/stuns with /elect), and either piercing rounds or executioner’s shot (both do decent damage, but I didn’t have room for both)

Wow you got all these attacks from /fire? I was thinking about only skipping lazing aura and combustion if I went /fire because of all the pistol attacks. I can't figure out what to skip in DP.

I went ahead and checked by building a character that worked-in all those powers and reached the softcaps for smash/lethal/range/energy. However, it doesn’t have hasten and relies on incarnate powers for end management to run all the toggles I chose, which would put me in a bind as I would want ageless for +recovery but also want clarion for mez protection. You could skip suppressive fire for superjump or fly and still get the same results, depending on your preferred way to travel for pve between ninja run/beast run/temps/jump packs/sj/fly (TP and ss don't have +defense pre-reqs making them harder to fit in).

I took my DP/Fire to 50. It just made sense. You are in melee range all the time with your nuke so why not drop burn and use fire sword circle while you are there? etc.

Please skip combustion if you go /fire. I implore you.

DP/ice would be good. DP/EM and DP/MM are the old standbys, if a set that's about one year old can be said to have such things, but ice does offer build up and a couple of quite nice control powers. Fire is fine too but I don't see a lot of value in adding tons of attacks from the secondary myself given how DP works in the first place.

In the spirit of minimizing redraw, my philosophy with DP is to take as many of the attacks as are useful. For me this meant everything except for executioner's shot. Empty clips is a very average cone, it's true, but consider the alternatives. Fire sword circle, for instance, does about 25% better DPA than empty clips. That's a significant difference, but one of them is a medium range cone and the other is a small pbaoe. Combustion actually does worse DPA than empty clips and locks you in one place for longer, in melee range. Yowza.

Then take suppressive fire. It's just a medium range control power, so nothing earth shattering for a blast set, but unlike any other comparable power you can choose whether it's a hold or a stun. One thing this gives it is an amazing range of slotting options, but it's also great for stacking with secondary and APP control powers. In general I wouldn't skip some kind of hard control on a blaster if I had the option to take it because there are cases, such as the LGTF, where it is just not a good idea not to have something of the sort.

Executioner's shot, meanwhile, does basically the same DPA as pistols and dual wield. This is a problem for it since they have 80 foot range and it has half that. They can also be used while mezzed due to defiance, and shorter animation is generally more desirable, DPA being equal. The other big issue is that piercing rounds also does essentially the same DPA, except when it hits more than one target in which case it does either two or three times better DPA.

So! I'd skip that last one and take the rest. If you do want to focus more on your secondary it could make sense to skip empty clips. By no means should you ever consider skipping pistols, dual wield, bullet rain, swap ammo, or hail of bullets. Piercing rounds isn't a set-defining power but wouldn't you like a tier 3 blast that moonlights as an aoe?

Thanks guys!

Dp/Fire makes a lot of sense Jayboh, I read the forums once in a while when I was away... And I didn't want to make a DP/MM, I know it's a popular combo, I played so many hours on a /psy dom when the game was hard to level to get her up to perma... I know different sets but too many powers in common.

And PleasyRecycle, thanks for the breakdown on the powers. I'll probably end up taking Executioner while leveling, before a respec farther down the road (ya know, gotta have the 'big bad shot'), but it's good to know that I can leave it out later and also it's a pity it has the same DPAS as a power that can hit 2-3 AND do -res (Piercing).

Well with Burn and FSC+Hail DP/Fire is starting to look good

Good choice. My standard answer for someone looking for blaster secondaries is /Fire. Always kill it with fire.

I don't want to pull you away from making a blaster, but you should consider making a dual pistols corruptor. My DP/Kin just hit 50, and it was the most fun I have ever had leveling a toon.

Fulcrum Shift+Hail of Bullets+Scourge=Awesome!

I would suggest DP/Elec, since it has very good melee DPS to help even out the relatively poor DPS of DP. Also, you can stack Shocking Grasp's hold with an ammo-loaded Suppressive Fire. For laughs you could get Lightning Clap to use right after Hail of Bullets.

But really, any secondary aside from /Dev should each bring something worthwhile to the table. DP may be marred by its animation times, but it can't be faulted for versatility.

Glad to hear you went with /Fire, I think it meshes extremely well with DP.

My 50 is DP/Elec. It's fun, but I would actually recommend DP/Energy. Boost Range and Power Boost are so good.

I guess this seems like a fun build to level up (I want to test some powers like Bonfire to see if it has any mitigation value, if I get to expensive IOing and stuff I'll go to the route of recharge and s/l/e defense through Scorpion Shield)

Sooo what do you guys think? Problem is, I have no idea if I'll be able to slot so many powers well.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Fire Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Flame Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Ring of Fire -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Swap Ammo
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Fire Sword Circle -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Suppressive Fire -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tactics -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Piercing Rounds -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Consume -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Vengeance -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Burn -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Hot Feet -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Bonfire -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Char -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition

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How much defense are you going for? How much recharge? Without scorpion or ice shield, hitting the soft-caps may really strain the build. In addition, I probably wouldn't take assault over maneuvers, you'll need the defense from maneuvers much more than the small damage buff of assault and maneuvers takes the LoTG proc for your recharge goal.

The next bit purely personal preference: if you're going to be in melee with hotfeet, burn, fire sword circle, etc., don't you think it will be hard to maximize the empty clips cone? This is of course compared to combustion. I know, I know combustion has a bad rap. However, in the powerset comparison in Mids' it shows combustion having the better dpa, dps, dpe, and damage. I looked at it both with and without Arcana time checked in the options. Not to mention, combustion has a larger radius than fire sword circle making it a good follow up move for FSC as enemies start to run away.

I like a DP/Dark corr, actually. Easy to soft-cap to S/L/E/N and lots of tools to support DP.

Plus you can take the Void incarnate AOE power that is T3 with a chance to crit on everything -- bullet rain, Void, HOB. Boom!

Combustion's DPA only beats empty clips' if you don't use inferno rounds. I feel quite secure in assuming that any discussion of DP's DPS assumes inferno rounds will never be deactivated. The other problem with combustion is the whole ten seconds from click to full damage thing: you're a blaster, not a tanker. Hopefully you plan on killing minions and lts in less than ten seconds.

You have a point, I forgot to make sure I added in inferno rounds while looking at the powerset comparison in Mids'. Still, I'd take combustion for ease-of-use when burning things with ... burn. My usual strat with my main /fire is jump into a +3x8 spawn next to a boss and hit burn then either combustion or FSC depending on how compact the spawn is at first. If it is all spread out then I use combustion then FSC. That way you are sure the boss takes the full damage.

This is also why I advocate taking blazing aura and hotfeet. Its awesome extra damage that happens while you do other things, like focusing on the boss. Even though burn doesn't have a fear any more, you want your hotfeet to keep your target in it for the full time just to maximize it. You don't want to jump out or up to have to cone and then jump back in. If you stay in melee, by the time you dealt with the boss, everything else will probably be gone. Special cases like healing cim traitors should be taken out first of course.

As for "you aren't a tank". That is very true. However, if you want, you can be a seriously tough blaster that doesn't care how many bosses are in this spawn, if two spawns are near each other, if you're stealing agro from the tank, etc. Since one of my main mains is arch/fire/mace. Standing next to a couple bosses as they try there best to kill me before my RoA is let loose is just fun. I'd hate to have to jump in and out of melee all the time. Dual Pistols even gets a short defense boost in HoB, I say make use of every second of it.

In short, I know you can use cones first and then run in to burn or even jump up and then cone at the apex of the jump, but given limited room in builds, I'd take the flexibility of combustion since I know I want to always stay in melee.

Oh yeah, I definitely didn't mean to say that as a blaster you're not tough enough to melee, just that a tanker typically has time to let combustion work (since he's so bad at killing stuff). If you run at +3 then it certainly does start to look more viable. I prefer +0 or +1 just because it's more usually more hyperactive.

Which setting do you prefer, Kioshi? That might be your answer right there on which aoe to go with.

Have people had success with SL cap ?

I just respeced my Kin Rad corruptor to have SL cap and 31 range defense. I did a mission on 2/6 setting VS Carnival mobs and it was disastrous vs the holds. Maybe that was a bad set of mobs to test out my new build against. But on a flip side I have a AR Device Blaster set up for hoverblast that is running 4/8 setting missions which is Range Defense capped.

I guess my whole point is DP fire going to have enough survivability being so close in. I just think with some of the new stuff they figured out this whole defense cap stuff so that is why the new cap is higher persay. Again I'm just discussing solo. I'm just a bit shakey about being so up and close on mobs with just SL cap on my blaster types. Similarly I have a Archery EM which also does 4/8 setting which is also Ranged capped.

For using cones and PBAOEs in tandem, take Combat Jumping. You can jump forward as you start the cone attack, land in the middle of them as it animates, then throw out your PBAoE without a hitch.