Well, at least on the enhancement front, you don't have to worry too much about leveling smoothly based on whether you're using IOs or not. We did manage to gain experience before IOs existed, after all. Of course, feel free to burn the inf on one of those wonderful -KB IOs. Those things make the world go round.
As for blast sets, I'm only really familiar with /Dark, and I don't think you would like it in a duo. It's not that /Dark is weak: you'll get a lot of effect out of Gloom, Tentacles, and Night Fall (if you want to grab and slot all the AoE), but that the set is awkward as a blast secondary. On paper, it looks like a lot of damage. With IOs for procs, it looks like a lot of damage. In practice, getting small to moderate groups positioned to be hit by Night Fall can take longer than just using single-target attacks.
I'd probably go with 2 Empathy/Ice defenders. As I see it, with 2 Empaths buffing each other, any secondary you take is going to shine. The holds and slows provided with /Ice would increase your buff time and combined Ice Breaths should prove useful.
Otherwise I'd mix and match and probably go with
Emp/Rad
Emp/Sonic
For obvious reasons.
Hmm, might be interesting to run an Empathy Controller/Defender duo.
Going with those options I might look at running;
For safety
Electric/Empathy Controller
Empathy/Electric Defender
For damage
Fire/Empathy Controller
Empathy/Ice Defender
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Ice for non-stop Ice Storms and defeating large swarms of targets, sonic if you want to rip the hardest targets to ribbons relatively quickly.
If Controllers are allowed then Empathy/Ice and Plant/Empathy. Nothing will be escaping Ice Storm / Blizzard.
Emp/Dark and Emp/Ice would achieve the same thing as well and have the advantage of being able to get Fort and AB at the same time.
Or if you really, really like tentacles Emp/Dark and Plant/Emp for Team Tentacle Death 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zandock
So, a friend of mine wants to get back into the game and talked about running some characters together. They were never very good at making builds or the like, so I wanted something simple we could run together. I figured what could be better than running a duo of Empaths? The only problem I have now is trying to decide what blast set to use.
The first thing that came to mind was using Sonic Blast, just knowing how awesome it is on my Rad/Son, and two times the -res can only be a good thing. I'm unsure if the lack of aoe damage will be good for trying to level up though as it will be likely we'll be able to take on larger spawns with all the survivability. I've heard that Ice Blast is pretty amazing with Ice Storm and Blizzard seems like a fun nuke to use with perma ABs going on. I know Rad Blast has some nice AoEs as well. Like I said my friend has really never worked on complex builds before and knows absolutely nothing about IOs, so I'm trying to design a pair that will level up smoothly on SOs or common IOs. The builds are going to be identical for flavor purposes as well as ease of planning. Any suggestions or experiences would be most appreciated. |
As someone who dual/triple boxes and has done the emp route I would suggest either Sonic or Ice. Sonic lets you slice and dice with the -Res and you get that cone sleep which, with two of you would allow you to put large groups to sleep and take them out one at a time. Ice is good for the reasons already listed on this thread.
But, if you want to do Massive AoE, you might consider Archery (my personal favorite).
A better option AoE wise would be two Plant/Emp trollers, Seeds everything so that they don't hit you and watch the damage pile on with containment, you might erase this duo due to boredom as your gonna kill everything and laugh at how easy it is, and I don't mean a little chuckle kind of laugh, I'm talking a maniacal laugh, like Mr. Burns putting his fingers together and saying "excellent"
Quote:
Hentai themed costumes are mandatory if you go this route.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Or if you really, really like tentacles Emp/Dark and Plant/Emp for Team Tentacle Death
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Thanks for all the input, guys. I think we've decided to go with Ice Blast. I considered Archery, but part of the fun of having AB on you all the time is being able to drop that end dropping nuke and just keep on going. Here's a preliminary build that I've tried to design with ease of leveling in mind.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Empathy
Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Heal(A), Heal(3), Heal(3)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), EndRdx(9), RechRdx(50)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Dmg(7), EndRdx(9), RechRdx(50)
Level 4: Heal Other -- Heal(A), Heal(37), Heal(37)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(17), RechRdx(17)
Level 8: Clear Mind -- EndRdx(A)
Level 10: Aim -- RechRdx(A)
Level 12: Fortitude -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13), RechRdx(13), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(15), ToHit(43)
Level 14: Assault -- EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Freeze Ray -- Acc(A), Hold(36), Hold(37), RechRdx(43)
Level 18: Recovery Aura -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19)
Level 20: Ice Storm -- Acc(A), Dmg(21), Dmg(21), EndRdx(25), RechRdx(25), Dmg(40)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(46)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Regeneration Aura -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(27), Heal(31), Heal(31), Heal(50)
Level 28: Bitter Ice Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(29), EndRdx(31), RechRdx(34)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(42), ResDam(43), ResDam(46)
Level 32: Adrenalin Boost -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), EndMod(33), Heal(34), Heal(34)
Level 35: Weave -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(46)
Level 38: Blizzard -- Dmg(A), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(40)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(42)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), ResDam(45)
Level 47: Force of Nature -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48), ResDam(48)
Level 49: Resurrect -- EndRdx(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(11), EndMod(11)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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If this is going to be truly duo/paired only you can pretty much ditch any recharge in Fortitude, going 3 def and 3 to hit buff. Likewise post AB in particular, and with minimal hassle post Recovery Aura, you can skip all Endred everywhere freeing up a few slots.
As far as having AoE immobilize with Controllers, nice enough but everything will be moving in slow motion with 2 defenders using /Ice (IF they are even moving with stacked Freeze Ray(s)), not much is really going to be running out of anything, least nothing you care about it running away.
i honestly wouldnt do empathy.. sure it will be nice to fort each other and CM.. But im not sure its really worth having all those powers in a primary that just wont really be used..
to me a pair of kins would be way stronger.. Or try something different like a dark and rad combo..
I could see fire/dark, fire/rad being really nice.. Or perhaps something like a pair of kin/sonics, give um the same uniform/look.. sorta wonder twinds like.
doing something like this your gonna have so many more tools to use, Vrs just both spaming the regens, and fort/CM..
Id rather carry a few BF's and a couple of purples for when needed and have many other powers that are far more usefull in most situtations.
Quote:
All which powers? there are 3 heals, you only HAVE to take the PbAoE aura heal, Absorb Pain is usually skipped. Clear mind, Fortitude, Recovery Aura, Regen Aura, Adrenalin Boost, and Resurrection still have uses.|
Originally Posted by SuperJe
i honestly wouldnt do empathy.. sure it will be nice to fort each other and CM.. But im not sure its really worth having all those powers in a primary that just wont really be used..
to me a pair of kins would be way stronger.. Or try something different like a dark and rad combo.. I could see fire/dark, fire/rad being really nice.. Or perhaps something like a pair of kin/sonics, give um the same uniform/look.. sorta wonder twinds like. doing something like this your gonna have so many more tools to use, Vrs just both spaming the regens, and fort/CM.. Id rather carry a few BF's and a couple of purples for when needed and have many other powers that are far more usefull in most situtations. |
I see a lot of suggestions for ice for the blaster sized storm/blizzard combo. I am of the mind that the constant resistance debuff stacking would bear out to provide more damage. Also with overlapping recovery aura and an adrenalin boost kicker, I am pretty sure Dreadful Wail nuking would be crashless.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
All nukes are crashless with Green Machine style builds.
Quote:
and hand in glove, Adrenalin boost mean more nuking, more crashless nuking. |
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
All nukes are crashless with Green Machine style builds.
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Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
I agree with the folks who suggested Ice or Sonic.
PS I have no direct experience with it but I think even with AB nukes still crash in the sense that they tend to detoggle you. Its just that you overcome the -endurance portion of the power and your end gradually comes back.
Sometimes you de-toggle and sometimes you don't. But you refill and can keep on fighting.
If you gain a tick of recovery while your endurance is draining, you can prevent from detoggling. Anyway, it looks like my friend actually isn't going to be able to play for a while now, so I'm having to put this project on indefinite hiatus. Thanks for all the input that was given, folks.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
All which powers? there are 3 heals, you only HAVE to take the PbAoE aura heal, Absorb Pain is usually skipped. Clear mind, Fortitude, Recovery Aura, Regen Aura, Adrenalin Boost, and Resurrection still have uses.
I see a lot of suggestions for ice for the blaster sized storm/blizzard combo. I am of the mind that the constant resistance debuff stacking would bear out to provide more damage. Also with overlapping recovery aura and an adrenalin boost kicker, I am pretty sure Dreadful Wail nuking would be crashless. |
Ok.. well if your a duo, and thats what this is about.. then a lot of the powers are just redundant.. 2 PB_AOE heals, 2 recovery, 2 regen? there are no staminaless builds these days, so how much regen do you need when you have heals? Really the only thng i see as something that is must have is Adrenal boost, and CM (both great powers, But on a duo, i can see many other powers that would do the same and work better..
recovery aura is for toons that either build for major damage planing on an emp on the team with it, Or people that just dont understand how to build a toon that can run without it and be effective, and today thats even easier.
Other power sets have a lot of debuffs, or secondary effects, that would make, as i said, over half the set pointless on a properly build duo.
to me recovery, and regen is totally pointless on a duo, you can easly share the healing aspecs, or just propper play avoiding the need from being healed in the first place so you can spend more time blasting.
To me a duo is about rolling spawns, and having a blast at what you can do as a duo.. and really i think empath is severly lacking as a duo, and going double ice, i think if just making it that much worse.
something like this would be way more powerfull and id think more fun, and have tons more play options.. but a kin/fire, and rad/dark, YOu could even go kin/elec, Rad/fire would be cool, even a couple of dark/rads.. those dark debuffs are pretty sweet. even a kin/sonic with its mega fire power. this would shread AV's and mobs, and you would be just as safe and most likely safer than the double emp, just cause you have so much more offensive power
If your planing to duo on a team.. aka you and your friend joining teams, empath wouldnt be a bad idea, But for me, emps as a duo is just to unbalanced.. One emp on a team is usually sufficent for a whole team, (or really any well played defender for that mater) But 2 emps, as a duo.. I just cant see that being that interesting.
good luck though if you choose it.. hope you enjoy it
I've played on an Empathy duo, and have to disagree with your assessment, SuperJe.
The offensive boost you experience is far more than the small damage bonus from Fortitiude. The recharge from Adrenalin Boost is far superior to that a Kinetics or Radiation duo get, and means you effectively forget about your Tier 1 blast, since you're cycling your more powerful attacks and area attacks non-stop.
The two regeneration powers and Fortitude provide a huge amount of passive protection - so you're rarely wasting time to fire off a Healing Aura.
In short, you're blasting non stop with your best attacks constantly, apart from the few second every two minutes required to refresh Fortitude, Clear Mind and Adrenalin Boost.
I do agree that Recovery Aura is wasted on a pure duo once you have Adrenalin Boost.
A Kinetics duo, in comparison, have little passive protection, but survive by their targetted heals and dmaage debuffs, which require change of focus, animation time and thought. A single area sleep, say from a Lost boss, can spell trouble, since it shuts down all that active protection.
I played a Force Fielder with a Kinetics partner once - that worked very well.
yea i can see that...
But how long can you just cycle the same couple powers over and over before you get bored..
the flip side, you have lots less tools to deal with many situations., A rad and a siphoner is gonna take down an AV very fast, much faster than cycling your highest blasts. (especially being a cold blast)
Your also waiting till 32 i think (i forget off hand) to get adrenal boost? So your really lvling off fort and CM a huge portion of the game. To me another set would make the go from 1-35 way more fun
A kin with repel bouncing guys to herd um up and blow um out with a fulcurm shifted nuke, Or locking down with tendrels, as they just wiff.
With IO's+hasten you can get your recharges up pretty nice, and with a decent chain and a few other powers your never waiting on a recharge.
I dunno, emps are nice, but thats what i really like about this game, so many other AT's are nice too. On teams i typically rather have something else.. Just personal preferance i supose.
I guess things to think about..
Please take it elsewhere, SuperJe. This thread isn't about whatever combo you find to be entertaining. And, as stated, its original purpose is already null.
So, a friend of mine wants to get back into the game and talked about running some characters together. They were never very good at making builds or the like, so I wanted something simple we could run together. I figured what could be better than running a duo of Empaths? The only problem I have now is trying to decide what blast set to use.
The first thing that came to mind was using Sonic Blast, just knowing how awesome it is on my Rad/Son, and two times the -res can only be a good thing. I'm unsure if the lack of aoe damage will be good for trying to level up though as it will be likely we'll be able to take on larger spawns with all the survivability. I've heard that Ice Blast is pretty amazing with Ice Storm and Blizzard seems like a fun nuke to use with perma ABs going on. I know Rad Blast has some nice AoEs as well.
Like I said my friend has really never worked on complex builds before and knows absolutely nothing about IOs, so I'm trying to design a pair that will level up smoothly on SOs or common IOs. The builds are going to be identical for flavor purposes as well as ease of planning. Any suggestions or experiences would be most appreciated.