Heya mate, I have a Necro/ Pain now at 50 + all 3 incarnates, and the ride there was a bit up and down. Necro, I think, is a really strong primary, but hits a bit of a patch mid level, until, IIRC, grabbing that first PPP shield.
Basically stick with it, is my advice, you will learn your strengths and weaknesses, how to slot for the future and will get you out of that (for me) false sense of security (almost a tankermindset) that I think can happen with certain MM primaries in their early stages.
Edit:
oh and here is my current build - could probably do with some tweaking, but it is quite enjoyable to play 
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A lot of Masterminds have a weak spot between about level 18 (when their first pets drop to -2) and level 26 (when they get their boss pet). I'm currently going through that with my Demons/Thermal and it does hurt.
There are a few things you can do to try and help. One option is to take provoke and draw aggro onto yourself (Tanker-minding). This serves to spread damage more evenly over your pets so they are less likely to die to a spike. Additionally, picking up the pet defense aura IO (and the pet resistance one in a few levels) also helps toughen up your pets a bit.
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Which two IO's are that? I'm at level 22 now and it's a bit of an issue.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
A lot of Masterminds have a weak spot between about level 18 (when their first pets drop to -2) and level 26 (when they get their boss pet). I'm currently going through that with my Demons/Thermal and it does hurt.
There are a few things you can do to try and help. One option is to take provoke and draw aggro onto yourself (Tanker-minding). This serves to spread damage more evenly over your pets so they are less likely to die to a spike. Additionally, picking up the pet defense aura IO (and the pet resistance one in a few levels) also helps toughen up your pets a bit. |
I've never really thought much of the Ghost power thing from Necro, so i've slotted mine with the Def and Res Aura IO's from both the Pet and RI Pet sets. So they've all got and extra 10% def/res, before any additional buffs.
As for the OP, you say you know how to use /Dark effecively, from playing Defenders, I'm curious as to what your general tactics have been so far. There may be something that works for defenders, but isn't necessarily the best option for MM's.
The level 32 upgrade'll give your pets a self-heal, too. At 38, you'll also have Dark Servant to help, so it does get easier. It may just be a rough patch, and you'll be fine again soon after. I've known of Necro/Dark MM's manage fine with things at +4/x8.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Edict_..._Defense_Bonus|
Originally Posted by Robert_B
Which two IO's are that? I'm at level 22 now and it's a bit of an issue.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Sovere...sistance_Bonus
Additionally, if you have a power that takes Recharge Intensive Pet IOs (so Demons, Thugs, Necro and Storm) you can double the bonus by taking these two:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Call_t..._Aura_for_Pets
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Expedi..._Aura_for_Pets
I will warn you, getting low level versions of them on the market can take forever (they don't drop much and aren't popular enough to get supplied through direct buys) so if you want to slot them at low levels you'll probably end up spending Alignment Merits on them.
Also, the text on the IO is bugged, it says the aura has a range of 20 feet, but it's actually 40 feet.
At low levels my necro/dark MM spent a lot of time right in the middle of the crowd so that my big heal would cover as many pets as possible.
The temp power that increases your endurance recovery has gotten me thru a lot of boss fights at low levels.
At level 24 (iirc) you get the second grave knight, level 26 gives you the lich, and level 32 is the all-important second pet upgrade, so hopefully you can stick with it a little longer.
You're familiar with Dark Miasma but I'll spell out the basics for anyone else reading the thread-
Slot your powers for -tohit and spam them. Darkest Night on the toughest guy in the crowd, use Fearsome Stare as an opener, Tar Pit magnifies your killing power.
The DN corner pull works as well for MMs as for defs/corrs.
I will echo again, level 21-23 is the rough patch for most masterminds. Level 22, you can get your SO's, and the IOs are starting to get stronger, too. Fearsome stare is a must for level 20 on your dark masterminds. Level 24 is another leap forward with the 2nd lieutenant pet. Level 26 is the Lich, and you have more bodyguard protection. Your effectiveness skyrockets at level 32 when your grave knights become l33t killerz and the Lich picks up his best control powers.
Try to team up to help cover your weak spots. Leverage your dark power; you should have shadow fall, darkest night, howling twilight, and shadow fall by level 22. Don't be afraid to use the auto-hit stun power in Howling Twilight even with no defeated teammates.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
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HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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The "Ghost power thing" is one of your better pets. Certainly better than the zombie sacrificed to summon him.|
Originally Posted by Biscuits_EU
I've never really thought much of the Ghost power thing from Necro, so i've slotted mine with the Def and Res Aura IO's from both the Pet and RI Pet sets. So they've all got and extra 10% def/res, before any additional buffs.
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Using it as a Uniques dumping ground only is a mistake IMO. I'd always recommend slotting it properly for Acc, Recharge and Dam and sticking the two RI uniques in there and slotting the two pets ones elsewhere.
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If you're Dark/Dark, you have to be in the mix healing and debuffing. If the foes aren't constantly missing your pets, then you're not using Dark Miasma correctly.|
Originally Posted by Splat-Fu
I turned 20, left the island and found my first group. My pets were (no exaggeration) nearly instantly dying every pull. Please bare in mind, I play defenders... I know how to use /dark very effectively.
We were fighting +1's and my minon's health bars went from full to 0 in one hit. What gives?? Are necro pets the weak of the weak or what? I'm very disappointed  |
The safe attack tactic is to put your pets around a corner (goto passive). Then use Darkest Night and SuperSpeed to pull a spawn to the corner. Put down Tar Patch so that the spawn slows down and bunches up in the Tar Patch. Now, they're at -30% Dam Resistance and -20% ToHit. Send your pets after them now. Spam the heal.
When you get used to that tactic, you're ready to move to bonzai mode. You do that by putting yourself in BodyGuard mode and charge the spawn throwing Fearsome Stare followed by Darkest Night and Tar Patch on them (you'll need to make sure you have Break Frees just in case). Run in with the pets and spam heal.
Don't forget that Howling Twilight is a great group stun (hits lieutenants and minions).
Dark/Dark does get a lot better with the Lich and Dark Servant around and when the pets get self-heals at the next upgrade.
If you need to take it slow for a while, pick up TP Foe and pull out the Lieutants into the pet feeding frenzy. Tar Patch will keep the rest of the spawn from overcoming you.
If you want to pick up the pace, take Team TP and drop yourself and the pets right on top of a spawn. Fun times.
Tar Patch and Howling Twilight can not have enough Recharge.
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Useful trick here, if you slot 3 pieces of Soulbound Allegiance (Dam/Rech, Acc/Rech, Dam/Rech/Acc) and a Dam/Acc HO you can get about 90% to each stat and still have two slots for the RIP IOs.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Using it as a Uniques dumping ground only is a mistake IMO. I'd always recommend slotting it properly for Acc, Recharge and Dam and sticking the two RI uniques in there and slotting the two pets ones elsewhere.
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I've made several high level Necros (Necro/Trap, Necro/Pain 50 and Necro/Storm). Here are some tips and thoughts: |
Originally Posted by Splat-Fu
I turned 20, left the island and found my first group. My pets were (no exaggeration) nearly instantly dying every pull. Please bare in mind, I play defenders... I know how to use /dark very effectively. We were fighting +1's and my minon's health bars went from full to 0 in one hit. What gives?? Are necro pets the weak of the weak or what? I'm very disappointed |
1. Yes, Zombies are very fragile. It also depends what type of enemies you fight because zombies have no Lethal resistance which is like the most common damage type in the game. Zombies have some Smashing resistance and Grave Knight have zero Lethal/Smashing.
2. Once you have Lich at lvl 26, it may be safer to goto him to start the fight. If you find that too annoying, I would use Darkest Night to pull first. If you are on a team especially a Large Team, NEVER send your pets in first for alpha. They will just melt. Now somebody say "hey, if your pets are taking damage, then they are "tanking". I don't agree with that because 1. you won't be doing much damage at all and you'll be spending more time trying to re-summon/upgrade. You basically wasted all your weapons. 2. Zombies aren't exactly a "good tank". Hell, they are not even good meatshields because some of the damage they are taking are merely AoE damage.
3. Soul Extractor can take two types of Pet Sets. I will highly recommend you put four Pet unique there, or put three and put the other one in zombie.
4. /Dark has a great self heal and that's why a lot of them use taunt/bodyguard mode combo. You can start the fight with Fearsome Stare or Darkest Night.
Personally, I find it very irritating to taunt aggro to myself because I am a Summoner, not a freaking Tank. If I want to taut to myself, I'll play a tanker. The problem is how the pets melt so fast. Instead of fixing/improving that problem, we have to bypass it with a self taunt. If you are Robot/Thug, it is easier to take alpha damage because the pets mostly stay at range and they have awesome Defense. When you are super squishy (like zombies), defense is way better than resistance. Resistance only works well when you can stack it very high with constant healing (IE: Necro/Pain).
Overall, it is not uncommon to feel frustrated with Necro. The problem will get a bit better with Lich and 2nd upgrade and then it gets worse. Not just necro, Ninja has the similar problem too.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My Necro/Dark does very well. In non-incarnate content I find myself waiting and waiting for one of my zombies to die so I can summon a spirit. My grave knights and lich almost never die. You can just heap on the -ToHit with N/D. But yes, the early twenties are horrible for any MM.
I find that /D in general strongly benefits from +Recharge though. I run mine with very-near-permahaste and its pretty strong. Stack on what +end you can though, you can burn through it pretty fast.
You are really waiting for your -ToHit debuffs to start adding up. Controls help, I personally stack on boatloads of fear and it really helps the big fights with lots of enemies.
N/D is a very good set, you'll really like it once your through the doldrums of the twenties.
Hello -
I had been searching and searching for a character I could actually enjoy. I'd try this AT and that AT to no avail... I had been trying all support (I currently have 3-50 defenders) to only find out they're not really all that needed in volume with incarnates and new content as they used to be.
So I changed gears and had the most fun I've ever had with a character, the Necro/Dark MM.
I made her in prae... leveling has been a joy there.
I turned 20, left the island and found my first group. My pets were (no exaggeration) nearly instantly dying every pull. Please bare in mind, I play defenders... I know how to use /dark very effectively.
We were fighting +1's and my minon's health bars went from full to 0 in one hit.
What gives?? Are necro pets the weak of the weak or what?
I'm very disappointed