Architect Ultra Challenge: Into the Darkness

Well, I guess I'll post something about this.

The Rikti Pylon Challenge has served us well for the past few years, but with the Incarnate powers it's beginning to lose some of it's luster. Bill Z Bubba, in the Rikti Pylon thread, mentioned doing something in AE to serve as a challenge.

I mentioned that I had an AE arc build as a team threat run. 209245, 'Into the Darkness.'

I honestly thought it would be considerably too difficult for solo play, until Auroxis promptly solo'ed it on a SS/Elec brute. I was surprised.

I still think we should come up with something a little better, but judging from the number of 5-star votes (thanks all you masochists!), people like 209245.



So, since nobody else is putting any ideas out there yet, here's the challenges I think would be most interesting:

All valid runs have to finish in 2 hours or less.

Finish the mission at +0x1y/y. Congrats, you're a scout.

Finish the mission at +4x2y/y. Congrats, you're a hard target.

Finish the mission at +1x8y/y. Congratulations! You're a threshing machine.

Finish the mission at +4x8y/y. You're an engine of destruction, buddy.


Now, each of the four categories test different things, and all allow 'anything goes' rules. Eat all the candy you can cram, use any temp you want, Incarnate nuke every spawn, etc, etc. The way to compete in each 'anything goes' category is to do it fast. A scout run in 29 minutes is better than a scout run in 33 minutes. An engine of destruction run in 48 minutes is better than one in 54 minutes.

Now as I see it, there's three ways to make this even tougher: Run it with no Incarnate Powers, run it with no temps or inspirations, or the ultimate, run it with no temps, no insps, and no incarnate abilities.

That should give a range of difficulties that any toon would be able to complete in at least SOME fashion, while scaling to the utterly impossible.

Or at least, I think it would be impossible, who knows

Also, I really do not really think this mission is ideal for single-target stress testing. I think we should put our collective heads together and work out a replacement/improvement on 209245, to keep the challenge fresh.

I'll post links back to this thread from the other challenge/stress threads.

What do folks think?

Fun stuff, and even though it could take an hour or so it keeps you on your toes.

Yep, I did it at +4x8 with bosses in an hour, with the use of insps and incarnate powers.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm gonna cut and paste the list of the bad guy powers in this thread as well, so folks know exactly what they're facing.

One of the design goals I deliberately tried to follow was, no surprises. They all have flight, so they all have big obvious wings. A color description of their powers is right in their info box. They are (mostly) color coded, so you can easily pick out the Smokes and the Blazes and the Ragers, etc. I even gave the Blazes a bright green 'kick me' sign by adding some heals to them.

Truth in advertisement, here.

The Bel 'Ean Kree (Belles) are designed to be an 'all around' faction with scaling buffs and debuffs as the spawn size increases. They use flight to minimize pathing and the time to combat, they have improved perception on certain mobs to force rapid alphas, and they have several unusual/rare status effects to mix things up.

They have roughly equal numbers of ranged, area of effect, and melee attacks, and have smashing, negative, and fire damage types, so that if there are any weak spots in defenses or resists there is a portion of attacks that will hit them. (I threw in a little lethal to give sword users a small gain for parry, to get a little more debuff in their melee, and to lower the 'wall of stun' in their melee attacks.)

They lack completely toxic or psionic because I feel those damage types are gimp crutches. YMMV.

They have some debuffs of many different sorts. To counter toons with heavy DDR, and toons with debuffs, they also have self-buffs to many things.

They do good to excellent damage, but rarely can hit hard enough to 'one-shot' even a squishy. That said, they have a LOT of attacks and attack quickly, and with their self-buffs they can hit for well over a thousand points of damage. Approach with caution.


Ok, all the Minions are 'Vixen's."

Lieutenants are "Virago's".

The Bosses are "Fury's"


There are four types of baddies.


Blazes are fire and thermal based blaster-buffers with ranged attacks, buffs, and debuffs. They are all set to "Ranged" fighting preference and have Flight.


Blaze Vixens have the Fiery Assault Primary with Flares, Fire Breath, Fire Blast, Fiery Embrace, Consume, and Blaze. The have the Thermal Radiation secondary with Warmth, Thermal Shield, Cauterize, Thaw, and Forge.

Blaze Virago's have the Fire Blast Primary with Flares, Fire Blast, Fire Ball, Rain of Fire, Fire Breath, Aim, and Blaze. They have the Thermal Radiation secondary with Warmth, Thermal Shield, Cauterize, Thaw, Forge, and Melt Armor.

Blazing Furies have the Fire Blast primary with Flares, Fire Blast, Fire Ball, Rain of Fire, Aim, and Inferno. They have the Thermal Radiation secondary with Warmth, Thermal Shield, Cauterize, Thaw, Forge, Heat Exhaustion, and Melt Armor.



Smokes are dark/dark blaster-tanks with dark blasts and dark armor. They have hefty debuffs baked into every attack, just for extra fun. Despite their armor, they are all set to 'Ranged" fighting preference and have flight.


Smoke Vixens have the Dark Blast primary with Dark Blast, Gloom, Night Fall, Torrent, and Life Drain. They have the Dark Armor secondary with Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield, and Dark Regeneration.


Smoke Viragos have the Dark Blast primary with Dark Blast, Gloom, Dark Pit, Night Fall, Torrent, Life Drain, and Blackstar. They have the Dark Armor secondary with Death Shroud, Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Onsidian Shield, Dark Regeneration, and Oppressive Gloom.


Smoking Furies have the Dark Blast primary with Dark Blast, Gloom, Dark Pit, Night Fall, Torrent, Life Drain, and Blackstar. The have the Dark Armor secondary with Death Shroud, Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield, Dark Regeneration, Oppressive Gloom, and Soul Transfer.





Ragers are simple, brutal combat monsters. They have a minor ranged attack and a ton of melee attacks, and all the armor in the world. They are set to "Melee Fighting" preference, and have flight.


Raging Vixens have the Super Strength primary with Jab, Punch, Haymaker, Hand Clap, Hurl, and Foot Stomp. They have the Invulnerability secondary with Resist Physical Damage, Temporary Invulnerability, Resist Elements, Unyielding, Resist Energies, and Tough Hide.


Raging Viragos have the Super Strength primary with Punch, Haymaker, Hand Clap, Knockout Blow, Rage, Hurl, and Footstomp. They have the Willpower secondary, with High Pain Tolerance, Mind Over Body, Fast Healing, Indomitable Will, Quick Recovery, and Heightened Senses.


Raging Furies have the Super Strength primary with Punch, Haymaker, Hand Clap, Knockout Blow, Rage, Hurl, and Footstomp. They have the Invulnerability secondary with Resist Physical Damage, Temporary Invulnerability, Dull Pain, Resist Elements, Unyielding, Resist Energies, Invincibility, and Tough Hide.





Sparks are a bit of an oddball collection of meleers, with more status effects and oddball abilities. Ragers get in your face, Sparks stab you in the back. They are set to Melee fighting preference, and have flight.


Sparking Vixens have the Martial Arts primary, with Thunder Kick, Shuriken, Cobra Strike, Focus Chi, Crane Kick, and Dragon's Tail. They have the Electric Armor secondary with Charged Armor, Conductive Shield, Static Shield, Grounded, and Lightning Reflexes.


Sparking Viragos have the Claws Primary, with Swipe, Strike, Slash, Spin, Followup, and Focus. They have the Electric Armor secondary, with Charged Armor, Conductive Shield, Static Shield, Grounded, and Lightning Reflexes.


Sparking Furies have the martial arts primary, with Thunder kick, Storm kick, Shuriken, Cobra Strike, Focus Chi, Crane Kick, Dragons Tail, and Eagles Claw. They have the Ninjitsu secondary, with Hide, Ninja Reflexes, Danger Sense, Kuji-In Rin, Kuji-In Sha, Smoke Flash, and Blinding Powder.


You can look up the exact specs on every power in the AE interface in-game.

Just tried this on "threshing machine" mode using my SS/DA brute and finished in something like 40 minutes. I'm positive I could get it down lower now that I know the map, especially if I turned AIM off this time instead of alt-tabbing to chat with friends.

It's a neat challenge, with some real unexpected dangers lurking for the unwary. The first time a Smoking Fury used Soul Transfer it caught me off-guard, so I started finishing them off last and from a distance. I also got caught by the Sparking Fury's Blinding Powder a couple of times, which got me killed since Dark Regen is no use when you're Confused. Had to start carrying a couple of BFs just in case it landed to avoid faceplanting. Was also saddened to realize that my own Soul Transfer was all but useless - it locked down the spawn I was fighting, but rezzing without my own Stealth up inevitably drew the attention of another nearby spawn and just made things worse.

Didn't use any temps, and it is definitely doable without Incarnate powers (though Destiny and Void Judgement make a huge difference), but I would hate hate hate to try it without inspirations.

I just finished this with my Inv/SS tank in an hour set on +4x8 with bosses. No insp's, no temps, no deaths.

Just finished in about 1:40 at 0x8 with my MA/SR scrapper. I would have finished a little faster if I knew I didn't need to clear the entire thing, which I basically did. I did ok on the level 50 spawns but the level 51 spawns tended to chew me up unless I used lucks. I did die a few times figuring things out. There's not much I can do about the unlucky KO Blow at less than full health, except try to be at full health. I do have Alpha level shift and I used Judgment and Destiny about as often as I could. Destiny is a tier 3 Rebirth: I really needed the heals and regen.

I need to rerun my challenge missions with all my incarnate powers: I wonder where this stands relative to the Scrapper Challenge (9713) and my team test (491922).

Since 0x8 is not on your list, I'll retry it at +1x8. I think I can manage that with heavy insp use.

I ran this with my Fire/Fire/Flame blaster first on my normal setting of +2/x6 with bosses. I finished in just under 50 minutes, I used lots of inspires. 3 hospital trips, 2 awakens, plenty of Rise of the Phoenix. I have Pyronic Radial, Clarion Core, Diamagnetic Radial, and Seers Radial. The Seers are a big help when they are up (I was able to use them twice)

Started a 2nd run at +1/x8, cleared 2 of the 3 tunnels in just over 30 minutes with only 1 hospital trip (and a few uses of RotP), but I got a team invite so I'll have to try again later.

Things that make it hard for my blaster: Nothing is mezzable (or at least mostly nothing); Thermal shields are rough on a fire damage dealer (only a major problem if I aggro badly); tier 9s and rezzes hurt efficient inspiration use (since their duration runs out while I have to kill a boss or two, it means I do not have as many to use when charging the next spawn, I have been getting better at being at range when I kill the /DA bosses, but I have enough procs that sometimes "Oops, I killed it" damage happens).

Edit: Just ran it complete at +1 / x8. 57 minutes. 5 Hospital trips and 1 awaken. This run was rough for me. I made 4 bad mistakes and got unlucky twice. Next I'll run it on my SS/EA/Soul Brute.

Ok Arcana brought something up, I'm not sure if I missed it in the OP or not but, is the time just to complete the mission or to clear the entire map? That could lead to very different times

I ran it in 34 minutes cleared all mobs and all ambushes set at 3x8. SS/Invuln Tank, with the following pools:Fitness, Speed, Leaping and Energy Mastery. All 5 incarnate abilities t4'd and the build is all tricked out and purpled and crazy. It was a helluva good map and great character power sets. Great job again, it was a challenge, most I've had in awhile! No deaths, used insp

Crab Tank +4x8: I would prefer no timer, and just use a stopwatch. I got 6 phone calls and spent as much time outside the mission on the phone as in it. I think I would have finished it in 1:15 or 1:30 otherwise, using 3 to 6 small purples per fight.

Very tough, but once I got the rhythm of it ran fairly smooth so long as I kept at least one extra small purple solidifying my defense.

Chasing runners was a major annoyance, but always is with the builds that don't have taunt or immobilize.

One spot I got an unlucky combination of 4 bosses, that for whatever reason was exponentially harder than every other spawn in the mission.

Small purple(s), small reds (optional), Nukem, Serum, AoEm, Kill the Lts, Kill the Healers, Kill the hybrids, Kill the meleers, Kill the stunners. Toss in a Rebirth in there somewhere when you need it. Demonic for the one aweful spawn. Use any oranges that drop closer to the start of the fights.

Tough stuff.

I'm gonna go run my own i15 stress test and see how it compares. This should be painful. Wish me luck. Make that a whole warehouse of lucks.

I cleared it in about an hour iirc on +4/x8/y/y with no temps, no insps, no deaths on my DB/Inv Scrapper.

Yes, they definitely have Incarnate level to-hit values. That was the number one constant problem. I only barely scratch by with 45 MRA, and no way to raise that other than candy. My Resists are just passable, and again no T9 to raise them.

As for the timer, it's probably good for 9 out of 10 people. I just got interrupted a lot more than average.

As for the tough spot, it took everything I had to punch through it. I was too busy trying to kill them and stay alive to really notice the combination. If I do it again, I'll take the time to note what they were.

I ran my mission after, and it was both harder and easier. Customized and Buffed Cimerorans at +4x8 without DDR can be painful once they get a hit in.

Here is my commentary on the mission as a testing environment. Overall my impression of this mission is positive, so keep that in mind because I am only going to discuss the potential drawbacks (so even though my post is going to be very negative, that is only because I like these enemies and this mission enough to report where I think it could be improved).

My suggested changes are going to be approaching this mission not from a story perspective, but instead from a build test/challenge perspective. The biggest issue I have is that I need to dedicate a LOT of time if I want to try to run this. The RWZ challenge and pylon tests are much, much faster and therefore more user friendly.

1) 4 Altars is too many. I'd lower it to 2 altars. 2 of each boss (well 2 of the 3 you have chosen to place manually, Raging, Sparking, and Smoking) and 2 destroy objects gives a guarantee of good variety. More is too much, IMO.

2) The map is too big. The map requires doubling back twice, requires lots of moving, and will contain about 20 spawns plus the ambushers. Solution: Use Medium map Caves Smooth Set - 7. This map will allow for 2 of each boss (6 total placed boss spawns), 2 destroy objectives, and 3 ambushes. It still has several areas where over-aggro can be a concern, so the map does not lose that good feature. From several tests, it will spawn the 8 placed objectives plus 3 generic spawns, for 11 normal spawns + the 3 ambush spawns.

Large map Caves Smooth Set 2 allows for 1 more placed objective (a 4th ambush was my thought). It has one small double back, and a fair amount of extra empty space to run through. It also spawns the 8 placed objectives I suggest plus 3 or 4 generic spawns (it varies, sometimes you have 11 total spawns, sometimes 12). I prefer Medium size Caves Smooth Set - 7, but this one is OK as well.

3) Some of the spawns can have end troubles. All of the minions run out pretty quick, although the Blaze Vixens seem to last the longest (ironically, they die first because we all target them first). It is not really a big issue that the minions run out of end, since they die very fast, although a Smoke Vixen or two tends to last a bit, since they like to get to and stay at range. Of the Lts., the Blaze and Smoke versions seem to have the most end troubles, with the Smoke being the worst. Of the bosses, only the Smoking Fury has really bad end issues, the tend to run out very fast. The other bosses will run out in protracted fights. After about 30 seconds, incoming damage drops considerably as half the spawn left alive has to start constantly waiting for end to attack. Sets that have end drain powers can really take advantage of this and drop the enemy attack potential very quickly. I am not sure how you could address this concern, I will think on it.

Oooh, we have an AE dude in the thread. Let's see what we got here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoNexus The biggest issue I have is that I need to dedicate a LOT of time if I want to try to run this. The RWZ challenge and pylon tests are much, much faster and therefore more user friendly.

I agree. I am astonished as many folks have done this already have done so. Hat's off!

To partially address this, I suggested the '+4x2' setting for folks who wanted a faster run: I've gotten arc feedback from people running that setting in under 15 minutes. That said, I also notice that everybody seems to want to shoot for the maximum.

Quote:

1) 4 Altars is too many. I'd lower it to 2 altars. 2 of each boss (well 2 of the 3 you have chosen to place manually, Raging, Sparking, and Smoking) and 2 destroy objects gives a guarantee of good variety. More is too much, IMO. 2) The map is too big. The map requires doubling back twice, requires lots of moving, and will contain about 20 spawns plus the ambushers. Solution: Use Medium map Caves Smooth Set - 7. This map will allow for 2 of each boss (6 total placed boss spawns), 2 destroy objectives, and 3 ambushes. It still has several areas where over-aggro can be a concern, so the map does not lose that good feature. From several tests, it will spawn the 8 placed objectives plus 3 generic spawns, for 11 normal spawns + the 3 ambush spawns. Large map Caves Smooth Set 2 allows for 1 more placed objective (a 4th ambush was my thought). It has one small double back, and a fair amount of extra empty space to run through. It also spawns the 8 placed objectives I suggest plus 3 or 4 generic spawns (it varies, sometimes you have 11 total spawns, sometimes 12). I prefer Medium size Caves Smooth Set - 7, but this one is OK as well.

Hmmm.

I made this one large enough for a strong team to be tempted to split. These days, I still like the size because it rewards people who have taken a travel power.

That said, I can understand the appeal to a solo runner to have a smaller map. I'll take a look at both of these, with an eye to whipping up a second mission in this arc, for folks to try for comparison. Or maybe I'll make it standalone, I got farms I never even use I could unpublish.....

Also, other folks can feel free to work up challenge maps, I posted the exact powers to recreate the Belles, or, folks can 'roll their own.' Be wary, it's hard to get a good balance!

Quote:

3) Some of the spawns can have end troubles. All of the minions run out pretty quick, although the Blaze Vixens seem to last the longest (ironically, they die first because we all target them first). It is not really a big issue that the minions run out of end, since they die very fast, although a Smoke Vixen or two tends to last a bit, since they like to get to and stay at range. Of the Lts., the Blaze and Smoke versions seem to have the most end troubles, with the Smoke being the worst. Of the bosses, only the Smoking Fury has really bad end issues, the tend to run out very fast. The other bosses will run out in protracted fights. After about 30 seconds, incoming damage drops considerably as half the spawn left alive has to start constantly waiting for end to attack. Sets that have end drain powers can really take advantage of this and drop the enemy attack potential very quickly. I am not sure how you could address this concern, I will think on it.

Yeah, this is a bit of a problem I've come to live with.

I have personal objections to using 'gimp tricks' in a challenge. No infinite debuffs, no mastermind swarms, no wall of toxic psionicists. That's just cheap, in my opinion. YMMV.

Indeed, I've retuned this faction several times to remove debuffs that I found excessive.

When you do that, however, you're left with bad guys that need to hit quickly and often with 'standard' attacks, and that burns through the endurance big time. But if you're going to challenge folks, you have to do that.

I sincerely wish there was a setting to tweak, so you could raise the end recovery, or up the end bar, or something. It's a bit of a design weakness in AE that END drainers can be a bit overwhelming, and a reason that I added some electrics a while back.

I did not want to give them too much End drain, though, because then they become Sappers on steroids, and that's no fun.

So, they tend to run out.

I like to think that they have a REALLY big Alpha. If you can weather the damage storm, they get a little bit easier.

Can't seem to find my Scrapper Challenge notes. Also, in double checking the current version of the Scrapper Challenge, it seems some of the critters actually *are* extreme versions of the critters due to an editing error from a while ago that shouldn't be anyway. So I'm actually going to be tweaking those back to the design they should have. In the meantime, perhaps it would be better to look over my Extreme Challenge mission and see if there is anything interesting in that design worth discussing. There's a lot of tricks in there, but I'm not sure if its interesting enough to write an entire post about. Even moreso than the Scrapper Challenge, though, every power is there for a specific reason. Everything from explosive arrow (its actually there for its visual effects, not its damage) to singularity (aka: the great cheating pet).

50 minutes, Hard Target.

JadePhoenix: Bot/Dark 'Scrapper' ;p

All-Human Warshade, solo at +0/x4. t3 alpha, t1 interface and t2 judgement, lots of breakfrees and 2 hospital trips. Did "Into the Light" in about 30 minutes.